Discussion
Pig Skill said:
This thread took a wrong turn here...
This thread was wrong from the start, in that you never intended to "debate" the issue, and you're bandying crack-pot ideas about to the wrong audience.
The majority of the posters on this forum are good, responsible pet owners, who take time and effort to understand their pets (impossible, according to you) and what their needs are, and then spend time, money and effort ensuring that the needs are met.
Your ridiculous suggestion of muzzling all dogs is dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. Tarring everyone with the "stupid" brush, when it's the minority who are stupid*, and the majority who are well aware of how their dog will interact/react with/to the stimulus and environment around them (thereby negating a need for a muzzle, in most instances**).
* too stupid to understand what good, responsibly pet ownership involves; too stupid to cater to their dogs needs; too stupid to teach acceptable behaviour; too stupid to pose less of a risk to others and their pets.
** as an aside, I think you'll find responsible dog owners are aware of when a muzzle will benefit their dog, and act accordingly.
But, as you said, you're right, and that's that.
susanq said:
We had a golden cocker (show type), Rory. He was a lovely natured little thing, very affectionate. However, we had 2 occasions in 9 years when he displayed rage. Always directed at my husband, and quite scarey. If we had children, we would certainly have considered letting him go.
I'm hoping that the steps we've taken to ensure the whole family is involved with his training and socialising will help, it's nice to be aware of this though, not something covered in the literature I've read, no has my vet mentioned it.FailHere said:
Using your argument all parents should keep their children on leads, after all you can't really control/trust them can you.
Oh yes please! I expect that in 99% of cases where a dog has a pop at a child it will be the child at fault. They do tend to be a bit thick and ignore the warning signs.
For example. I was in the local garden centre with my dog (Belgian shepherd). She is the sort of dog who likes to get to know new people slowly and calmly. Mother and I guess 5-8 year old boy walk up behind us, boy gets excited and wants to touch the dog so without asking just comes up to her and tries to touch her.
Dog not being a fan of this backs up pretty quickly but didn't have far to go as we were in a corner at the time.
I tell the boy to leave her alone but he wont listen and reaches out again. Dog is now baring teeth, kid still trying to get to her so she gives him a bark.
I bump the kid out of the way and put myself between him and dog and ask his mum to get him. She just calls him and says to come away which he ignores and is still trying to reach round my leg to get to the dog.
I started shouting at the mother which seemed to embarrass her enough to come and pull the child away, no telling off even any education that he should not be trying to stroke a scared dog. Dog was on lead the whole time.
Crikey. This thread makes my 'Christening' thread look normal.
OP - if we apply your logic to muzzling all dogs, then we must also apply it to all other situations. I did start writing out a long list of everything that could be banned, but then I realised that it would be everything that exists, so we might as well just nuke the whole planet and return it to the bacterial stage of evolution.
Or we could apply a bit of common sense and realise that not every dog is a savage animal ready to tear the head off a toddler, and try to educate people better about a dog's needs.
OP - if we apply your logic to muzzling all dogs, then we must also apply it to all other situations. I did start writing out a long list of everything that could be banned, but then I realised that it would be everything that exists, so we might as well just nuke the whole planet and return it to the bacterial stage of evolution.
Or we could apply a bit of common sense and realise that not every dog is a savage animal ready to tear the head off a toddler, and try to educate people better about a dog's needs.
RB Will said:
I expect that in 99% of cases where a dog has a pop at a child it will be the child at fault.
How about the countless times when the dog doesn't have a pop as such, but just runs up to the child or jumps up at them, for no reason.My kids were taught not to go near dogs they didn't know but over the park dogs off the lead were forever running up to them and on a couple of occasions, jumping up and knocking them over. Only for the halfwit owner to wander over a minute later says "she only wants to play/she loves kids/ she wouldn't hurt a fly."
My experience is that loads of dog owenrs, who would class themselves as good responsible owners, have very little control over their dogs when they are off the lead and don't seem to think it's a problem.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
How about the countless times when the dog doesn't have a pop as such, but just runs up to the child or jumps up at them, for no reason.
Not excusing this behaviour but you may see no reason and your experience may well differ to mine but generally the child will be moving around making excitable noises and the dogs find this very interesting and want to go and play and are then rewarded by everyone going mad making more noise and movement and it all becomes a big game. Try just being silent and still and turning your back on the dog and they usually bugger off and find something more interesting.
If the dog comes running to you if you are just stood there it probably thinks you are someone it knows and plays with.
Agreed it is annoying when this happens.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
wiliferus said:
Shortly after taking this pic I was eaten alive. In fact I'm posting this from the grave
Gaz. said:
Sorry but if your dog is that intolerant/scared then you shouldn't be taking her to a garden centre. It was crap parenting on her part but you didn't do yourself any favours either.
I don't understand your point? Basically you can boil that down to I should not take my dog out of the back garden as this sort of thing could happen anywhere.A garden centre is hardly a place that makes you think of children running riot is it. Obviously I would not stick her in the middle of a busy playground and expect everything to be fine.
Just this last weekend she spent an hour on a busy train station platform and then strolled around a town quite happily and sat on the sea front with no bother, even had a couple of people stroking her and giving her treats. But then again nobody made her jump then backed her into a corner while trying to grab her.
Karyn said:
Pig Skill said:
This thread took a wrong turn here...
This thread was wrong from the start, in that you never intended to "debate" the issue, and you're bandying crack-pot ideas about to the wrong audience.
The majority of the posters on this forum are good, responsible pet owners, who take time and effort to understand their pets (impossible, according to you) and what their needs are, and then spend time, money and effort ensuring that the needs are met.
Your ridiculous suggestion of muzzling all dogs is dumbing down to the lowest common denominator. Tarring everyone with the "stupid" brush, when it's the minority who are stupid*, and the majority who are well aware of how their dog will interact/react with/to the stimulus and environment around them (thereby negating a need for a muzzle, in most instances**).
* too stupid to understand what good, responsibly pet ownership involves; too stupid to cater to their dogs needs; too stupid to teach acceptable behaviour; too stupid to pose less of a risk to others and their pets.
** as an aside, I think you'll find responsible dog owners are aware of when a muzzle will benefit their dog, and act accordingly.
But, as you said, you're right, and that's that.
ts so my attitude to that sort of st is to take a 'go screw yourself then' sort of attitude.My reluctance to 'debate' only became apparent later in the thread and was in response to the softy pissflaps who were offended I dare criticise their flea ridden s
t machines.So ner ner nerrrr
RB Will said:
Gaz. said:
Sorry but if your dog is that intolerant/scared then you shouldn't be taking her to a garden centre. It was crap parenting on her part but you didn't do yourself any favours either.
I don't understand your point? Basically you can boil that down to I should not take my dog out of the back garden as this sort of thing could happen anywhere.A garden centre is hardly a place that makes you think of children running riot is it. Obviously I would not stick her in the middle of a busy playground and expect everything to be fine.
Just this last weekend she spent an hour on a busy train station platform and then strolled around a town quite happily and sat on the sea front with no bother, even had a couple of people stroking her and giving her treats. But then again nobody made her jump then backed her into a corner while trying to grab her.
RB Will said:
Gaz. said:
Sorry but if your dog is that intolerant/scared then you shouldn't be taking her to a garden centre. It was crap parenting on her part but you didn't do yourself any favours either.
I don't understand your point? Basically you can boil that down to I should not take my dog out of the back garden as this sort of thing could happen anywhere.A garden centre is hardly a place that makes you think of children running riot is it. Obviously I would not stick her in the middle of a busy playground and expect everything to be fine.
Just this last weekend she spent an hour on a busy train station platform and then strolled around a town quite happily and sat on the sea front with no bother, even had a couple of people stroking her and giving her treats. But then again nobody made her jump then backed her into a corner while trying to grab her.
Pig Skill said:
Look sweetheart, I did intend to debate. Thing is, a fair few stroppy owners immediately starting using offensive critique and generally acting like soft tts so my attitude to that sort of st is to take a 'go screw yourself then' sort of attitude.
My reluctance to 'debate' only became apparent later in the thread and was in response to the softy pissflaps who were offended I dare criticise their flea ridden st machines.
So ner ner nerrrr
ts so my attitude to that sort of st is to take a 'go screw yourself then' sort of attitude.My reluctance to 'debate' only became apparent later in the thread and was in response to the softy pissflaps who were offended I dare criticise their flea ridden s
t machines.So ner ner nerrrr
An eloquently put diatribe, full of logical debate and sound reasoning
Hats off!
I do sound pious sometimes
, but I strongly believe, man! Guilty of "softy pissflaps" as charged. 
Upatdawn said:
I think this thread was started by someone with a deep seated fear of dogs, its the OP who needs help, whoever is nearest them could offer a day spent with dogs to allay their fears
I did this a few years ago with someone who was scared of "large dogs". By the end of the day he was feeding the dogs by hand.Here's the thing - we have a dog! He is a rescue dog called Jasper.
We have been to hell and back turning him from a jumpy, tetchy dog who used to try and choke himself when on lead into a placid little fellow with a lot more trust.
Would I let him off lead in a park or other public outing? Not a chance. Does he wear a muzzle? Of course he does.
This little fellow can turn in the blink of an eye and has bitten dogs far bigger than he. No warning, something inside just switches.
How many other owners can be sure their dog won't?
We have been to hell and back turning him from a jumpy, tetchy dog who used to try and choke himself when on lead into a placid little fellow with a lot more trust.
Would I let him off lead in a park or other public outing? Not a chance. Does he wear a muzzle? Of course he does.
This little fellow can turn in the blink of an eye and has bitten dogs far bigger than he. No warning, something inside just switches.
How many other owners can be sure their dog won't?
Broken record but me I can. My dog has been very badly bitten by another, he never bit back. Recently a boxer attacked him he got bitten on the ear again he never bit. Obviously he tried to defend himself by hiding by me and I did see him snap at the air but not the dog. Tbh I have to wonder exactly what torture he'd endure/suffer before he did retaliate.
Good on you for helping an obviously damaged dog and it's because he's been damaged that you've taken the steps you've have. This is good pet ownership. However for every traumatised dog there are plenty that aren't and do not need to be treated as such and have equally as good pet owners and I believe I am one of them!
Good on you for helping an obviously damaged dog and it's because he's been damaged that you've taken the steps you've have. This is good pet ownership. However for every traumatised dog there are plenty that aren't and do not need to be treated as such and have equally as good pet owners and I believe I am one of them!
Pig Skill said:
Here's the thing - we have a dog!
You CAD! I wasted perfectly good pious-ness on you![/quote=Pig Skill]
Pig Skill said:
This little fellow can turn in the blink of an eye and has bitten dogs far bigger than he. No warning, something inside just switches.
How many other owners can be sure their dog won't?
I'd wager lots of owners. I'm confident that I understand my dogs' behaviour, and others to some extent. Lots of them can "be sure", also, because they remove their dog from situations that might escalate.How many other owners can be sure their dog won't?
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