Help! My puppy is destroying my kitchen...

Help! My puppy is destroying my kitchen...

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Discussion

jenpot

472 posts

186 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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My dog had horrendous separation anxiety as a puppy and would trash things if we left her alone long enough to go to the bathroom, or take a shower. A combination of shift work and crate training really helped though, crate made her feel safe so she slept while we were out and didn't destroy things (apart from the couple of times she got out...).

Nowadays, I have a wonderful 4 year old dog who doesn't touch anything, sleeps on the bed given half a chance and gets annoyed on my days off when I'm doing housework in nap time. But it was a lot of hard work.

That puppy is scare, bored or a combination of the two. As others have said, its a long time to leave a wee one alone. It does get easier as they older and calmer.

icetea

846 posts

141 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Anyway, it''s called dog ownership, its fun.
Don;t beat yourself up - there are hundreds and hundreds of dogs out there with a far more horrible life.
Why does this excuse keeping getting rolled out... just because lots of other people treat their pets badly, that doesn't mean you should too.

base

321 posts

179 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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icetea said:
JFReturns said:
Or are we doing something badly wrong? frown
Yes, you selfishly bought a dog when its completely incompatible with your lifestyle. The poor guy is bored to tears in there on his own... no wonder he's wrecking the place.

If you needed to have a dog you should have took an older one from a rescue centre.
And that there is the truth of the matter

Piglet

6,250 posts

254 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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The fact that it's not working out for this pup doesn't mean it's wrong that anyone who works has a dog so I don't think there's much need for the debate about whether it is ever right or for those who do work to defend their choice.

The fact is that it is clearly not working for this pup and the OP needs to deal with that swiftly to avoid long term problems.

I'm not sure that separation anxiety is automatically the issue, the OP hasn't said anything about the dogs demeanour, it may be that the dog is hugely anxious or it may be that it is just bored rigid - either are an option and neither are gong to improve on their own.

To me, both sessions that the dogs is left for are too long, leaving a 8 month old for over four hours at a stretch on a consistent basis seems pretty difficult - what does he do about going to the toilet? When you started leaving him presumably he was around 12 weeks old and at that stage I would have been expecting him to need to toilet every hour or so - how did you deal with that?

Personally, I think you need to be thinking about someone to come in mid morning and mid afternoon with you doing the lunchtime shift and that would still not be ideal, dogs are pack animals, they like company and they are hugely loyal to their owners, it's heartbreaking to think that he is locked away all day and is scrabbling at the doors to try to get out frown

I'd suggest you get a video camera and rig it up in the kitchen to try to get to grips with what is happening - it may not make very pleasant viewing though.

What breed is he?

Chilli

17,318 posts

235 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Get another dog.

Edited, I meant for him to play with, not to replace him!

Sexual Chocolate

1,583 posts

143 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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My lab was a chewer when he was young and yes we did leave him alone when we where at work. In the end we left the back door open on nice days so he could trot outside and do stuff and he could freely roam around the house during the day. Even with all this in place he still chewed and even when we where at home he would still chew stuff. I think he just enjoyed it as he used to sneak off whatever he was about to chew and take it upstairs so he wouldn't be spotted.

This is a list of what he destroyed.

2 x TV Remote controls
big patch of kitchen line
1 x hands free phone
Various socks stolen from the laundry basket.
Couple of hunderd quids worth of the wifes underwear
Stair carpet
Wall paper in the hall way
Anyting that came through the letter box
Next door neighbours garden gnome.
Cushion at my mums house when he stayed there for a few days
Skirting boards.

Superficial

753 posts

173 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Haven't read all the replies so apologies if I'm covering old ground.

Destructive behaviour is usually a sign of either boredom or separation anxiety. If Yoda is only being destructive a couple of times a week when you're at work I'm 99% sure it's boredom. If he had separation anxiety he would be damaging things every time he was left, even if you were at home but in another room. If you have any doubt set up a video camera to record him while you're out and see if he shows any sign of distress.

Labs are very people orientated and don't do well to be left alone for long periods of time. They are also a 'mouthy' breed; their instinct is to use their mouths and chewing in itself is a pleasurable activity for dogs. Firstly, is there any way he could harm himself in the kitchen? If so, I'd recommend crate training him so that he can't destroy anything and injure himself but whether you use a crate or not he needs a lot more interaction in the day. Depending on where you live you could employ a dog walker for about £10 per hour, that would at least get him out the house and tired out. How is he walked at the moment, on lead or off? On lead walking has its place but dogs like labs need to run to tire properly. Another option would be doggy day care, for a commercial place you'll pay more but when I used to work at the groomers we had day boarders for £10 a day which is very cheap. Do you have any neighbours who are home during the day and would appreciate the company? That could be free, or a case of a favour for a favour.

At 8 months I doubt he'll grow out of it naturally, if anything he's hitting adolescence and inappropriate behaviours need to be nipped in the bud before they become more cemented.

Good luck smile

Karyn

6,053 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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OP, my sympathies! You've been properly lampooned here, rightly or wrongly.

1-2 times a week is boredom, I'd wager. As others have said, if neither you nor your wife can come home at lunch for longer (10 minutes is nowhere near enough) look at either a dog-walker or day-care for your pup. Pronto!

Ours started to chew at about 8 months, and we foolishly didn't do much about it, figuring she'd "grow out of it". She didn't, and it's now a cemented behaviour, which we're struggling to undo.

Although it was nerve-wracking, giving her free reign of the entire house, instead of one room, helped matters. Midday dog walker also helped. Hiding "long-lasting" toys (e.g. frozen tuna-yoghurt inside marrow bones) in places helps, too - toys that will keep them interested for about half an hour.
More aerobic exercise first thing in the morning, too - look to try and get him running round for 15 minutes or more, instead of just plodding along next to you on-lead.

It might be worth re-visiting the "acclimatisation to leaving" training - leaving him for 5 mins, then 10, then 20, etc... but I understand that that might prove difficult if you both work. Plus, given that I'd bet at least 50p that it's down to boredom rather than separation anxiety, it might not offer that much in the way of reward.




Last restort would be get another dog... wink

SGirl

7,918 posts

260 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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I agree with the person who said above that a longer walk at lunchtime would be a good idea. Our lurcher pup was always happy to snooze all day at the age of 8 months, as long as she had a long walk first thing in the morning, a quick run round the garden at lunchtime and another longer walk later in the afternoon - but then again, I work from home so I can also interact with her when she needs company (which is usually any time I open a packet of biscuits or at 10-minute intervals for about an hour prior to her official walk time!). Now that she's 20 months old, she's happy to just have the early morning walk and an afternoon one, she doesn't need the lunchtime games in the garden.

Doggy daycare is potentially a good idea, too - the bloke that looks after my guinea pigs if we're away looks after a dozen or so dogs while their owners are at work. The dogs seem to love it - they get loads of exercise and company, and they're always happy!

Good luck with your pup, he looks gorgeous! smile

ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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JFReturns said:
A typical day would be:

- 40 minute walk first thing, rest then feed
- Kitchen sprayed with horrible tasting stuff, toys prepared to keep him entertained
- Leave around 8:15, back home at 12:45 for 10 minute walk and lunch. Prepare more toys for the afternoon
- Leave at 1:30, back by 6 then a good hour work with training and food and play time
JFReturns said:
I forgot to add that we have family coming over twice a week for a walk and play for a couple of hours at lunch so it is three times a week he only gets a short walk at lunch. We leave the radio on (SWMBO insists Radio 4, maybe that's the problem!). He was fine for the first few months, it all started when he hit six months old!
So he chews once or twice a week?

Which days? The ones he gets family over, or the ones he is left? Or a mixture of both? Is there any pattern to it?

Trying to work out if it is something that makes him anxious or if it is just boredom.

Karyn

6,053 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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^^ Just call her Nancy Drew... wink


Good idea, Ali. yes


Mr Gearchange

5,892 posts

205 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Upatdawn said:
Would you leave a toddler alone for 4 hours?
A good well balanced point incorportating both a sense of perspective and a very relevant comparison.

sidekickdmr

5,065 posts

205 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Hate to say it but I agree with the majority, its not really fair leaving her alone in the kitchen for hours on end.

We have just got a puppy and both work full time (wouldn't have chosen to have a dog until OH gave up work but we didn't really have much choice (apart from putting her down)) and we are out the house from 7 am till 6 pm with no option of going back at lunch.

We initially looked into getting a dog walker in at 10 am and 3 pm for a hours walk, but thought this would be unfair on her too, so we now use a "doggy daycare" woman.

We drop the dog off on the way to work and pick her up on the way home, this lady is a proper registered/insured dog sitter and looks after about 5 dogs a day, they live in the house with her and have attention all day and go for two 2 hour walks a day.

By the time she gets home she just wants to curl up on my lap and sleep!

Only £15 a day too.

If you need to know more PM me!

Karyn

6,053 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Mr Gearchange said:
Upatdawn said:
Would you leave a toddler alone for 4 hours?
A good well balanced point incorportating both a sense of perspective and a very relevant comparison.
hehe

Butter Face

30,192 posts

159 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Karyn said:
Mr Gearchange said:
Upatdawn said:
Would you leave a toddler alone for 4 hours?
A good well balanced point incorportating both a sense of perspective and a very relevant comparison.
hehe
hehe

Have another.

Our dog is at home during the day, she does have access to a large garden and the whole house though.

There have been a couple of incidents but she seems to have grown out of it. Lots of toys, lots of treats, radio on and a dog flap on the back door.

Dick Dastardly

8,312 posts

262 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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We have a dog walker for our 1 year old border collie every couple of days. £10 buys him being out for 5-6 hours (usually 10 am till 3-4 pm), running around with other dogs and even getting taught obedience and tricks by her too. Some days she properly knackers him out so we are happy, and he has decided that one of the other pups is now his girlfriend, so he loves it each time.

welshjohn

1,215 posts

180 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Only one thing to do get him a little playmatebiggrin

My doberman was the same then got the daschund and the jack russell and it all stopped.

rhinochopig

17,932 posts

197 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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welshjohn said:
Only one thing to do get him a little playmatebiggrin

My doberman was the same then got the daschund and the jack russell and it all stopped.
Overkill IMO.

Try getting him a pig's ear to chew on instead. Thet're cheaper and bleed less.

JFReturns

Original Poster:

3,693 posts

170 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Many thanks for the replies. I do feel that some of the comments were overly harsh, bordering on spiteful and were posted simply to upset and get a reaction. Others were melodramatic, and pretty far from the truth.

I reject the suggestion that we are selfish, inconsiderate owners; our trainer, vet and neighbours (who are also vets) all agree that we are very loving, thoughtful and strict with our dog. What we are however, is inexperienced and have a lot to learn. I therefore especially appreciate the constructive comments from members who I respect (ali_kat, Paddy_N_Murphy, BexVN, Karyn).

So, first things first – I think it is boredom, rather than seperation anxiety that is making Yoda chew. Reasons being:

- I've seen at training first hand dogs with seperation anxiety, and they HOWL and are clearly upset. Yoda on the other hand doesn't even bark (except at the hoover) and displays no anxiety that we can see. Our neighbour confirms he doesn't bark at all when we are not around

- He doesn't constantly follow us around, craving contact and affection

- When we leave him, he doesn't even notice us going (too busy sniffing for treats and toys I've left him, as this picture today shows)



We spent a good half hour on the phone to our trainer today, and we'll have a proper chat on Saturday (going onto silver training course, having passed foundation and bronze with flying colours). What could have caused the latest chewing session was a change in routine – my fiancée had a few days off last week. We also need to 'de-humanise' him, and do such things as no fuss or attention for first ten minutes we see him each morning / lunchtime / evening.

So, today was a good day with no damage! I've taken on-board some of the suggestions in this thread, by getting up earlier and giving him a good hour walk first thing, and twenty minutes at lunch. I also got more toys, stuffed them with treats (adjusted meal quantities of course) and hid them around the kitchen. The cage above was left open to provide somewhere cosy and to hide toys.

Our trainer also offers a dog bus service biggrin whereby a few dogs are picked up at 9, taken for walks, trained etc and dropped off at 3. This sounds like a great idea! I'll try and find some local dog walkers too, but my goodness they will be interrogated first..... Yoda is too precious to trust to anyone.

Oh and to answer a few questions from the thread; he is a chocolate labrador retriever, is fully toilet trained, we just say 'bye' when leaving (and he ignores us as above), I initially couldn't see a pattern with the chewing but it could be down to changes in routine. Think that is it.

Oh and one other thing – funny wouldn't you say, that the two contributors who also own labs had similar experiences – perhaps it is ever so slightly common behaviour to the breed rather than irresponsible and selfish ownership? The neighbours garden gnome being destroyed really did make me chuckle hehe

More feedback appreciated, if constructive of course smile I'll finish this long winded post (well done if you've read this far!) with a nice pic of Yoda waiting patiently for me to open the front door before this mornings walkies.



R60EST

2,364 posts

181 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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I won't proceed to make spiteful or derogatory remarks as I don't believe you deserve them . The truth is though that he is bored and not getting enough exercise. A long walk is obviously not enough. I see you have a bike there , he's probably not old enough yet but when he is up to it , teaching him to run along side the bike along canal paths etc can give them the workout they need. I have a Springer and a Lab , they both love it when they see me drag the bike out of the garage . The Springer has in the past done close on 30 miles during the course of one day out on the bike , he loved it . The Lab does not have the stamina for that distance but 10 -12 miles with regular breaks he loves . To put that into perspective , a working sheepdog does the equivalent of a marathon per day during the course of his working life

You're doing a good job , the best you can in your current circumstances. Have you considered giving access to the garden ? have you considered getting him a playmate , double trouble but the effort is worth it . An older rescue dog as a companion may be a calming influence on him . No guarantees with that one though , he may teach the older , calmer dog , how to destroy the kitchen in one afternoon.

Here's my two , enjoying life to the full






and then relaxing in their room , yes sad I know they have their own room. It was the spare room , they decided to commandeer it laugh









Quick edit :

I've never condoned the use of crates , we bought Alfie ( springer ) one when he was a pup. I decided to leave it up to him if he wanted it , he didn't, I can't say I blame him. They seem a bit cruel to me , I only got one becuase of the positive things I'd read about them . Alf didn't read the same articles , obviously.

Edited by R60EST on Tuesday 9th October 23:12