China - cruelty to animals

[julian64]

My wife keeps chickens. She looks after them like pets, she is out to tend to them in the middle of the night if they sqawk the wrong way and when its cold she goes out to pour hot water on their feeders to give them something warm to drink. They often follw me around the garage and will snuggle up to your legs if you are lying under the car trying to sort something.

IN OTHER WORDS THEY ARE PETS treated rather like most people treat dogs or cats, but these are farmed for eggs and killed for food. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and its rather an insult to any farmer to suggest they are.

She has been on courses to learn how to kill a chicken, and I won't bore you with the details but it involves a broom handle, and it seems pretty barbaric.

The problem is that it is easy to decide what you think barbaric is, and you are entitled to that opinion.

What you aren't entitled to is to decide that for everyone else.

[Jasandjules]

I would assume that few are objecting to the eating of animals. The issue is the way they are killed. That is what should be stopped.

As for killing chickens, I think your wife needs to go on a different course frankly as I know a few farmers and the chickens are killed instantly by hand. It is not pleasant but it is effective.

[bexVN]

My life is revolved around the care of animals particularly dogs and cars.

I don't have an issue with dogs and cats being eaten. Different countries different ideas.

However I cannot in any way shape or form condone how these poor critters are treated before and during their death. Rammed together in crates, legs broken over there shoulders and tied together, tin cans rammed over there noses, dipped in boiling water alive so skinning them is easier, the list goes on and on and on.

Raccoon dogs arr skinned alive for fur then thrown alive on their dead skinned counterparts. They can take upto 10 mins to die.

Tell me how anyone at all can justify any of that?

[mrmr96]

Captain Muppet said:

mrmr96 said:

Captain Muppet said:

How is this different to what I do to flies in the summer? I've crushed them, poisoned them, cut them in half and drown them.

Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to hurt anything fluffy and cute, and other than accidental road kill I never have. I just struggle with the morality of saying that one is evil and the other isn't.

You don't think the level of intelligence has anything to do with it then?

I don't know, which was why I was asking.

Are you saying I should only cull the stupid?

I knew that my reply would be misinterpreted as soon as I posted it, which is why I've now deleted it. Quite happy to sit this thread out.

[julian64]

Jasandjules said:

I would assume that few are objecting to the eating of animals. The issue is the way they are killed. That is what should be stopped.

As for killing chickens, I think your wife needs to go on a different course frankly as I know a few farmers and the chickens are killed instantly by hand. It is not pleasant but it is effective.

. I live in a place surrounded by farmers. They are the ones who suggested the course.

Without wanting to derail the thread I think you will have to accept that we have tried a number of methods before deciding on what we considered the most 'humane'

[uk_vette]

garos said:

Just read (actually scanned over quickly) the Sky news report on the abattoirs in China clubbing dogs, quite distressing so I haven't linked it on purpose.

It got me wondering why this rich country is still so awful when it comes to animal cruelty, it hardly has any legislation on this! Some 10 - 16 million dogs are killed each year. From what i know before, the mass live skinning of animals is not unheard of.

Obviously China has developed in many ways, but way underdeveloped when it comes to this, perhaps the cruelist country in the world for this!

.
For your western culture, you don't agree with it, just because you and your western culture dont agree with it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

When I last looked, China is on the other side of the world, in a place called Asia.

Different place, different culture.

Get used to it, and move on.
One of my well to-do friends has some super luxorious fur covers on his car seats.
I didn't need to ask what they were.
But they were very comfortable.

vette

[uk_vette]

205alive said:

Fluffy wuffy? What about the fish and snakes which are cooked and eaten while still alive? How do you reconcile that?

.
.
Not forgetting the lobster

vette

[garos]

uk_vette said:

garos said:

Just read (actually scanned over quickly) the Sky news report on the abattoirs in China clubbing dogs, quite distressing so I haven't linked it on purpose.

It got me wondering why this rich country is still so awful when it comes to animal cruelty, it hardly has any legislation on this! Some 10 - 16 million dogs are killed each year. From what i know before, the mass live skinning of animals is not unheard of.

Obviously China has developed in many ways, but way underdeveloped when it comes to this, perhaps the cruelist country in the world for this!

.
For your western culture, you don't agree with it, just because you and your western culture dont agree with it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

When I last looked, China is on the other side of the world, in a place called Asia.

Different place, different culture.

Get used to it, and move on.
One of my well to-do friends has some super luxorious fur covers on his car seats.
I didn't need to ask what they were.
But they were very comfortable.

vette

You have no issue with a puppy being skinned alive, you're telling me thats not wrong?

[pad58]

uk_vette said:

.
.
Not forgetting the lobster

vette

No, I have been cooking crab and lobsters for years , they are kept in a fridge over night where they go very sleepy then put into cold water until boiled, a form of stunning if you like.
As a butcher I have limits within my moral code, if it is farmed and eats ONLY grass then I will eat/sell it.
But not horse.

[Wadeski]

garos said:

uk_vette said:

garos said:

Just read (actually scanned over quickly) the Sky news report on the abattoirs in China clubbing dogs, quite distressing so I haven't linked it on purpose.

It got me wondering why this rich country is still so awful when it comes to animal cruelty, it hardly has any legislation on this! Some 10 - 16 million dogs are killed each year. From what i know before, the mass live skinning of animals is not unheard of.

Obviously China has developed in many ways, but way underdeveloped when it comes to this, perhaps the cruelist country in the world for this!

.
For your western culture, you don't agree with it, just because you and your western culture dont agree with it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

When I last looked, China is on the other side of the world, in a place called Asia.

Different place, different culture.

Get used to it, and move on.
One of my well to-do friends has some super luxorious fur covers on his car seats.
I didn't need to ask what they were.
But they were very comfortable.

vette

You have no issue with a puppy being skinned alive, you're telling me thats not wrong?

But the original posts mentions skinning/beating animals (animal treatment), killing dogs (for food? in general?) - which bit are you getting offended by? Or is it a general view that "Chinese are nasty to animals"...which would need a bit more substantiation.

[garos]

Wadeski said:

But the original posts mentions skinning/beating animals (animal treatment), killing dogs (for food? in general?) - which bit are you getting offended by? Or is it a general view that "Chinese are nasty to animals"...which would need a bit more substantiation.

People eat meat and will continue to do so, I have no issue with that, personally I don't eat meat but that is a life choice that suits me. Provision of the meat and care for the animal up to and during slaughter is all important.
The Chinese seem to have no welfare in place in attaining there meat, as pointed out by someone else, the more pain they inflict the better, that seriously shocks me. I wasn't aware of this and i wasn't aware until today that they slaughter something like 16 million dogs anually, some by clubbing. I looked at a petition site today and they have a photo of a puppy being skinned alive.
I posted this up because I think its important that we know whats going on, little will change perhaps, but without knowledge it certainly won't.

[uk_vette]

garos said:

I don't eat meat but that is a life choice that suits me.

I knew it, another freaking veggie.

garos said:

I posted this up because I think its important that we know whats going on, little will change perhaps, but without knowledge it certainly won't.

Put into perspective,
The Chinese civilisation has been around about 6000 years
How far back can you go in UK?

So your not going to buy Chinese made stuff.

OK,then don't

vette

[garos]

uk_vette said:

garos said:

I don't eat meat but that is a life choice that suits me.

I knew it, another freaking veggie.

garos said:

I posted this up because I think its important that we know whats going on, little will change perhaps, but without knowledge it certainly won't.

Put into perspective,
The Chinese civilisation has been around about 6000 years
How far back can you go in UK?

So your not going to buy Chinese made stuff.

OK,then don't

vette

Err, is skinning puppies alive wrong?

[Wadeski]

I think the question is more: what % of animals face cruelty or mistreatment in chinese food processing? what steps is china taking to limit suffering?

the logic your putting out there seems to be:

1) they eat dogs in china
2) some animals are mistreated in china (we have no idea how many)
3) ALL CHINESE PEOPLE ARE TERRIBLE

[bexVN]

Wadeski said:

I think the question is more: what % of animals face cruelty or mistreatment in chinese food processing? what steps is china taking to limit suffering?

the logic your putting out there seems to be:

1) they eat dogs in china
2) some animals are mistreated in china (we have no idea how many)
3) ALL CHINESE PEOPLE ARE TERRIBLE

Not some, lots. No, Chinese people aren't all terrible, some are starting to campaign for better welfare which is great but they have an uphill battle due to many Chinese still being set in their ways. However China now wants to be popular and they are starting to care about what us Westerners think. This is a good thing.

[pad58]

I can't remember exactly ,but I did see a chinese in this country being closed after local cats where found hanging in the back and rats too.

[Ozzie Osmond]

julian64 said:

The problem is that it is easy to decide what you think barbaric is, and you are entitled to that opinion.

What you aren't entitled to is to decide that for everyone else.

That line of argument would say kiddy-fiddling is acceptable so long as the perpetrator is comfortable with it.

These sorts of thing are decided by society as a whole, not individuals.

[Jasandjules]

uk_vette said:

For your western culture, you don't agree with it, just because you and your western culture dont agree with it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Skinning animals alive is wrong. There is no grey area nor room for rebate.

[M888SXY]

Yes it is very wrong, and my good lady (Chinese) agrees.

But she also has a point when she says we, as westerners, have no right to tell them what is right and what is wrong. Different culture, full stop.

A bit provocative maybe but pity we can't treat out families as well as they treat theirs.

[julian64]

Ozzie Osmond said:

julian64 said:

The problem is that it is easy to decide what you think barbaric is, and you are entitled to that opinion.

What you aren't entitled to is to decide that for everyone else.

That line of argument would say kiddy-fiddling is acceptable so long as the perpetrator is comfortable with it.

These sorts of thing are decided by society as a whole, not individuals.

Your line of argument is called an 'izzard'. Its a form of comedy based on taking any statement to an extreme to make it sound funny, or make a point.

Societies should have laws to kerb the wishes of individuals when their wishes would do harm to others, or very oiccasionally when they would do harm to the society.

Societies are not there to give you your opinions.