Possible kidney problems in a GSD
Discussion
I found out today that my german shepherd may have possible kidney problems. It started about 3 weeks ago when she hurt her leg running through a field and started limping. We rested her for a week as it looked like she'd just pulled a muscle, then as it was no better after a week I took her to the vet who checked her over thoroughly, watched her run, etc (blooming dog decided she wasn't going to limp whilst at the vets though!), and we came home with a weeks worth of painkillers (cimalgex) and orders not to walk her for the week and then take it slowly after that. 2 days after finishing the course of painkillers she started to drink excessively (3 litres of water a day) and weeing indoors, which in the 9 years we have had her she has never done. We took her back to the vets who took a blood and urine sample and gave her another thorough check over, with a possible diagnosis of Leptospirosis, and we came home with 14 days worth of antibiotics to start treatment whilst we waited for the test results to come back. So fast forward a week, she is still drinking about 2 litres of water a day (no more accidents in the house after the first 2 days though) is halfway through the course of antibiotics and today we received the test results back. She has tested negative for leptospirosis, and now the vets think that her kidneys may not be working quite as well as they should be, so have said to finish the course of antibiotics and take her back in another 14 days time for another blood test to check kidney function again. All this and she is still limping slightly, but can't be given any more painkillers at the moment due to being on antibiotics!
So my question is, has anyone ever had anything like this happen to their dog? Also how easy is it to treat possible kidney problems in dogs and what is the general prognosis for these types of problems?
The dog in question is a 10 - 10.5 year old german shepherd.
So my question is, has anyone ever had anything like this happen to their dog? Also how easy is it to treat possible kidney problems in dogs and what is the general prognosis for these types of problems?
The dog in question is a 10 - 10.5 year old german shepherd.
I would see how the next bloods go first.
The NSAIDS prescribed are classed as cox2 inhibitors so generally don't cause kidney issues, however even if they do cause issue, once off them again they should not cause long term problems.
Using NSAIDS along with antibiotics is not usually an issue but they probably don't want to continue using them until the kidney issue is settled.
If it does turn out that your dog has some issue with kidneys there are special diets (homecooked preparations or prescription diets) that can be used and sometimes some medicines to help the kidneys.
I hope things settle back to normal soon but it will indicate that certain drug categories should be avoided in future.
The NSAIDS prescribed are classed as cox2 inhibitors so generally don't cause kidney issues, however even if they do cause issue, once off them again they should not cause long term problems.
Using NSAIDS along with antibiotics is not usually an issue but they probably don't want to continue using them until the kidney issue is settled.
If it does turn out that your dog has some issue with kidneys there are special diets (homecooked preparations or prescription diets) that can be used and sometimes some medicines to help the kidneys.
I hope things settle back to normal soon but it will indicate that certain drug categories should be avoided in future.
Thanks for the reply Bex, our next appointment is on the 29th, so I will wait and see how she goes until then and hope that things start to get better again. Do you have any thoughts about the long term limp? She doesn't seem to be in any pain with it, I was thinking possibly the start of arthritis, but wasn't sure.
I should say may indicate not will indicate.
Also realised I was trying to break a record for how often I could use the word issues in a paragraph!!
The limp will depend on a number of factors but xrays may be suggested to try and find a cause for the limp. Even though pain may not be obvious their must be some discomfort for a limp to be occurring.
Also realised I was trying to break a record for how often I could use the word issues in a paragraph!!
The limp will depend on a number of factors but xrays may be suggested to try and find a cause for the limp. Even though pain may not be obvious their must be some discomfort for a limp to be occurring.
When I spoke to the vet today she said to keep an eye on the limp for now and if it stays the same to get it checked again when I take her back for the blood test, if it gets worse to take her in earlier, but she also suggested videoing it a couple of times during the 2 weeks to see if it changes at all. Will see if I can figure out how to add a video on here.
Hopefully this works: http://youtu.be/u29jPHzzZrc
baker77 said:
Hopefully this works: http://youtu.be/u29jPHzzZrc
That looks like left front to me but she doesn't seem phased by it. I know she's getting on a bit but does she hesitate going down steps or jumping off small ledges etc? No problems going up / down stairs, jumping off / climbing up small ledges, will happily jump up to catch a toy that's been thrown and as you say doesn't seem at all phased by it. The strange thing is if it is her front left leg she is now limping on then it's not from the original injury which was definitely front right (she tends to show me what she's hurt when she's done it, she hobbles up to me holding up the offending leg / paw).
Edited by baker77 on Wednesday 15th May 17:41
baker77 said:
No problems going up / down stairs, jumping off / climbing up small ledges, will happily jump up to catch a toy that's been thrown and as you say doesn't seem at all phased by it. The strange thing is if it is her front left leg she is now limping on then it's not from the original injury which was definitely front right (she tends to show me what she's hurt when she's done it, she hobbles up to me holding up the offending leg / paw).
It's hard to see on the video but having looked again it could be her front right. Her head bobs up when she puts her front left down, which can be indicative of lameness, but looking at her when she's trotting up to you she seems to be 'dishing' with her front right (imagine Ronaldo doing a step over, that sort of thing) but it could be a trick of the light as that leg is in the shade so now i'm not sure! Edited by baker77 on Wednesday 15th May 17:41
My original thought was that if she had damaged the muscle in her leg then the products of the breakdown can cause kidney issues but it doesn't seem the case here at all. It could just be age related but the speed of onset would go against that as well. Bit of a conundrum i'd say!
Does she struggle to get up in the morning? Or after a long walk?
And I know I am going to sound like a broken record here but if you could possibly move her to raw food that may assist with the liver/kidney functions as there is less work for those organs to do.
One other thing which some people do to reduce the impact on the organs is to fast the dog for one day a week.
And I know I am going to sound like a broken record here but if you could possibly move her to raw food that may assist with the liver/kidney functions as there is less work for those organs to do.
One other thing which some people do to reduce the impact on the organs is to fast the dog for one day a week.
Jasandjules said:
Does she struggle to get up in the morning? Or after a long walk?
And I know I am going to sound like a broken record here but if you could possibly move her to raw food that may assist with the liver/kidney functions as there is less work for those organs to do.
One other thing which some people do to reduce the impact on the organs is to fast the dog for one day a week.
She doesn't struggle when she gets up in the morning or after a long walk, she occasionally gets a bit stiff, but that's usually in her back legs and doesn't seem to bother her. And I know I am going to sound like a broken record here but if you could possibly move her to raw food that may assist with the liver/kidney functions as there is less work for those organs to do.
One other thing which some people do to reduce the impact on the organs is to fast the dog for one day a week.
I have considered feeding raw, but I live in Switzerland and meat is rather expensive out here unless you are friends with a butcher, which unfortunately I'm not
. I tried feeding her a raw chicken leg a while ago and she turned her nose up at it, I ended up pulling the meat off the bone before she even considered eating it and even then I ended up having to feed it to our other dog.Once she's had her blood test done again I might try fasting her one day a week to see if it will help.
Update: we had another vets appointment on the 29th for more blood tests and to check her limp (she is still limping, with no change at all). The blood was tested at the vets and came back as the kidney values still being high, but lower than last time, and the liver values which were pretty much off the scale last time (the vet showed me the results) were back to normal levels. The vet said that this was indicative of leptospirosis, so even though she tested negative for it last time it was decided to send another blood sample off to be tested, as it can apparently take 2-3 weeks to show up in the blood. Yesterday we received the results back and this time it was positive for leptospirosis. She is now on a 2 week course of antibiotics that are used to treat the leptospirosis, and once these are finished we have to do another blood and urine test to see whether it's helped, so another 2 weeks worth of waiting .
Does anyone know the long term prognosis for a dog with leptospirosis? As far as I can figure out she'll never be totally clear of the disease, and there is a possibility it will return at some point. Will her kidneys be damaged from having this? She is still drinking about 1.5 litres of water a day.
.Does anyone know the long term prognosis for a dog with leptospirosis? As far as I can figure out she'll never be totally clear of the disease, and there is a possibility it will return at some point. Will her kidneys be damaged from having this? She is still drinking about 1.5 litres of water a day.
Sorry to read this. I can't remember the last time I saw leptopirosis diagnosed in a pet dog (seen it in foxes) so I'm not sure of prognosis (the one dog that does stick in my mind was from many years ago and was very poorly with it but medicines and treatments will be much improved from then)
It is one of the diseases that we vaccinate against and every yar due to it being bacterial, but I think I did read that there appears to be new strains developing, thus potentially reducing the efficacy of the vaccine.
It's good to see improved results lets hope this continues. And with the drinking, it is much better than an animal with kidney problems is seen drinking, rather than not drinking enough. 1.5 litres is not horrendous for a shepherd, is she having any accidents due to her increased drinking?
Keeping my fingers crossed that you have no setbacks whilst on treatment.
It is one of the diseases that we vaccinate against and every yar due to it being bacterial, but I think I did read that there appears to be new strains developing, thus potentially reducing the efficacy of the vaccine.
It's good to see improved results lets hope this continues. And with the drinking, it is much better than an animal with kidney problems is seen drinking, rather than not drinking enough. 1.5 litres is not horrendous for a shepherd, is she having any accidents due to her increased drinking?
Keeping my fingers crossed that you have no setbacks whilst on treatment.
bexVN said:
Sorry to read this. I can't remember the last time I saw leptopirosis diagnosed in a pet dog (seen it in foxes) so I'm not sure of prognosis (the one dog that does stick in my mind was from many years ago and was very poorly with it but medicines and treatments will be much improved from then)
It is one of the diseases that we vaccinate against and every yar due to it being bacterial, but I think I did read that there appears to be new strains developing, thus potentially reducing the efficacy of the vaccine.
It's good to see improved results lets hope this continues. And with the drinking, it is much better than an animal with kidney problems is seen drinking, rather than not drinking enough. 1.5 litres is not horrendous for a shepherd, is she having any accidents due to her increased drinking?
Keeping my fingers crossed that you have no setbacks whilst on treatment.
The vet did seem quite surprised that she has got leptospirosis, as are we. Both of my dogs are vaccinated yearly with the necessary vaccinations and every 3 years for rabies, which we have to keep up to date for when we travel back to the UK with them, so it must be a new strain. It is one of the diseases that we vaccinate against and every yar due to it being bacterial, but I think I did read that there appears to be new strains developing, thus potentially reducing the efficacy of the vaccine.
It's good to see improved results lets hope this continues. And with the drinking, it is much better than an animal with kidney problems is seen drinking, rather than not drinking enough. 1.5 litres is not horrendous for a shepherd, is she having any accidents due to her increased drinking?
Keeping my fingers crossed that you have no setbacks whilst on treatment.
With regards to the drinking, I'm glad she's drinking a lot while she's got kidney problems, as you say it's better she drinks a lot than not enough. She normally drinks around 1 litre of water a day, at the start of the problem she was drinking around 3 litres a day. She hasn't had any accidents inside since the first 2 days, but she is very good at letting us know when she needs to go outside, and we are aware that she will need to go outside more often at the moment.
Other than the limp and the drinking she seems absolutely normal, is eating well, has a beautiful shiny coat, is happy to run around, jump and play, so hopefully we caught it early enough and the lasting effects won't be too bad.
baker77 said:
Update: we had another vets appointment on the 29th for more blood tests and to check her limp (she is still limping, with no change at all). The blood was tested at the vets and came back as the kidney values still being high, but lower than last time, and the liver values which were pretty much off the scale last time (the vet showed me the results) were back to normal levels. The vet said that this was indicative of leptospirosis, so even though she tested negative for it last time it was decided to send another blood sample off to be tested, as it can apparently take 2-3 weeks to show up in the blood. Yesterday we received the results back and this time it was positive for leptospirosis. She is now on a 2 week course of antibiotics that are used to treat the leptospirosis, and once these are finished we have to do another blood and urine test to see whether it's helped, so another 2 weeks worth of waiting .
Does anyone know the long term prognosis for a dog with leptospirosis? As far as I can figure out she'll never be totally clear of the disease, and there is a possibility it will return at some point. Will her kidneys be damaged from having this? She is still drinking about 1.5 litres of water a day.
Glad to see that you have an answer and have started treatment. Leptospirosis likes to hang out in the kidneys and, depending on the immune system and strain of bacteria, they can totally eliminate them or become carriers and shed chronically. The kidneys become inflamed when the body tries to fight off the bacteria and this might explain the limp as the walking motion might lead to uncomfortable pressure on the kidney. Fortunately the antibiotics are excreted at the kidneys and there will be a good concentration there quickly, so they should help fight the infection and hopefully your dog will recover well. All the best .Does anyone know the long term prognosis for a dog with leptospirosis? As far as I can figure out she'll never be totally clear of the disease, and there is a possibility it will return at some point. Will her kidneys be damaged from having this? She is still drinking about 1.5 litres of water a day.
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