Puppy training - getting it right.
Discussion
Sexual Chocolate said:
Raw meat has been around for hundreds/thousands of years, processed dog food 60 years. Tell me which one dogs should be more used to?
If you're responding to what I said, you've missed my point entirely. I have already answered that.Also, no offence intended but when people say "more natural", they are usually saying, "I don't understand or know this works but it has less man made chemicals and I think that's always better", and that simply isn't true.
Sexual Chocolate said:
Apart from the sardines I would say a raw fed dog eats a more natural diet than a dog on processed food.
I'd probably disagree. Edited by Prof Prolapse on Tuesday 10th June 15:35
Prof Prolapse said:
Sexual Chocolate said:
Raw meat has been around for hundreds/thousands of years, processed dog food 60 years. Tell me which one dogs should be more used to?
If you're responding to what I said, you've missed my point entirely. I have already answered that.Also, no offence intended but when people say "more natural", they are usually saying, "I don't understand or know this works but it has less man made chemicals and I think that's always better", and that simply isn't true.
Sexual Chocolate said:
Apart from the sardines I would say a raw fed dog eats a more natural diet than a dog on processed food.
I'd probably disagree. Edited by Prof Prolapse on Tuesday 10th June 15:35
Each to their own of course and everyone tries to feed their dog the best they can. The raw v kibble debate will rage on, even more so now its "trendy" to do it.
Edited by Sexual Chocolate on Tuesday 10th June 16:12
otolith said:
What is the natural lifespan and state of health of a feral dog?
Well, one woman who used raw feeding for years averaged approximately 5(IIRC) years longer lifespans for her dogs compared to the breed average i.e. close to 33% longer.There are actually many vets who advocate raw feeding. Those however who want to ensure higher profits for their business may not wish to suggest raw feeding is better.
Feed your dog raw food, see the difference yourself (and smell the difference too). Seeing is believing.
Jasandjules said:
Well, one woman who used raw feeding for years averaged approximately 5(IIRC) years longer lifespans for her dogs compared to the breed average i.e. close to 33% longer.
There are actually many vets who advocate raw feeding. Those however who want to ensure higher profits for their business may not wish to suggest raw feeding is better.
Feed your dog raw food, see the difference yourself (and smell the difference too). Seeing is believing.
Not wanting a row but just to point out that unless she had an enormous number of dogs that "33%" is not worth anything as an indicator. You can't rationally conclude dogs live longer in this way. There are actually many vets who advocate raw feeding. Those however who want to ensure higher profits for their business may not wish to suggest raw feeding is better.
Feed your dog raw food, see the difference yourself (and smell the difference too). Seeing is believing.
That really isn't how this sort of thing works and is exactly why anecdotal evidence like those suggested are mistakenly confused with facts.
He was on raw food when we got him, and was on that until we had discussed the matter with our vet. He's not against raw, he actually suggested we try it with our cats, but he is against raw feeding of large breed puppies. Actually, it's not the raw aspect he has concerns about, it's any amateur diet composition.
The point relating to feral dogs was really about the use of the naturalistic fallacy, though.
The point relating to feral dogs was really about the use of the naturalistic fallacy, though.
Prof Prolapse said:
Not wanting a row but just to point out that unless she had an enormous number of dogs that "33%" is not worth anything as an indicator. You can't rationally conclude dogs live longer in this way.
Yes, she did. And more and more people are now having their dogs live longer than the breed average, as more and more people feed raw.
Jasandjules said:
Yes, she did.
And more and more people are now having their dogs live longer than the breed average, as more and more people feed raw.
My point is it wasn't enough. I'm not going to go into the stats as to why this is the case as its long but also freely available.And more and more people are now having their dogs live longer than the breed average, as more and more people feed raw.
It also doesnt matter. Again that just means you have many anecdotes.
If the claim holds water it would be easy to demonstrate. Especially a 33% increase. The only question is why with so many academic institutions looking into this, why they have not published definitive data..
Prof Prolapse said:
The only question is why with so many academic institutions looking into this, why they have not published definitive data..
Well, some might suggest Cui bono.The same reason vets and vaccine companies claim annual shots are needed.. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/a...
Well we are 2 weeks in now.
She is responding to her name well.
Not yet sleeping through the night.
Pees in the house frequently but always approaches the back door for number twos. We are taking her out every hour to improve this.
Crate training is going okay. Is starting to go in of her own accord but not late at night yet.
Last jabs tomorrow.
She denies routing through flower bds. I don't believe her!
She is responding to her name well.
Not yet sleeping through the night.
Pees in the house frequently but always approaches the back door for number twos. We are taking her out every hour to improve this.
Crate training is going okay. Is starting to go in of her own accord but not late at night yet.
Last jabs tomorrow.
She denies routing through flower bds. I don't believe her!
It's probably all done to death now so will be fairly brief(ish!)
Crate - Absolutely! It's the dogs safe haven, somewhere to retreat to when wanting some quiet time to chill...it also helps if you want to do decorating or other things where having a dog bombing about isn't ideal. NEVER put the dog in there for punishment, it should always be a good thing.
Raw Diet - In my experience, yes! Breeder suggested (fairly strongly in fact, they did say you don't see wolves bringing dry food back to the lair...but I guess there are two arguments for that story) it and we were open to the idea. Fro breakfast he had a horrible stinky tripe sluge. Lunch was weetabix, milk with Vit2000...or something like that...added. Evening meal was raw chicken wings. I used side cutters sometimes as the pups little teeth couldn't cope with the bones so made it more manageable for him. He was put in to kennels for one week and was fed on typical kennel food. his coat looked dull and lifeless whereas he normally had such a deep shine to him. When we have run out of raw food and fed him on dry food he turned in to an evil little b
d!! EVERY single time we feed him on anything other than raw, he turns in to a little st!! He's fully grown now (2 years old) and is fed twice a day and we've used the usual companies (WolfTucker..brilliant, Natural Instinct etc) all is very good but gets expensive. He normally has a block of food with veg in the morning and the nasty stuff in the evening like carcasses, chicken backs etc. This kind of food can be bought fairly cheaply Funnily enough, our vet sits on the fence a bit with the raw diet thing.
Training - Puppy classes...I have mixed views on this as with a bad school you'll do more harm than good. Without them you won't have a clue either. Where possible, I'd strongly recommend somewhere/someone that knows the breed well and can train them. In my experience, the 'reputable' place we used was awful. They weren't interested in him at all. I don't want my dog to stand on a skateboard, in a box or any of that crap. I want to know how I get control of the dog. Obedience is one thing, control is a different story entirely!
Training Part 2 - The key to success is timing and consistency. I cringe when I see people yell 'sit' hundreds of times. You're just telling the dog that 'sit' means stay there and ignore me while I yell a word at you that you don't understand. Getting a dog to sit is easy. Treat in hand, under the dogs nose and use it to manipulate the dog in to the sit or down position. The moment the dog has done what you want, use the command and give it the treat. It will very quickly understand what sit or down means.
'Sit' means sit down and stay there, you don't need to say 'stay'. If the dog moves, put it back to where it was and start again. Best way in my experience is put the dog in the sit or down position, walk away, just a few paces, walk back and put a treat between its paws and repeat but walk a little further. In no time you'll get the dog to stay there until you call it. If the dog gets up, put it back and start again. Do it 20 times if required.
ALWAYS use the same command, NEVER vary it. If the the command to call the dog over is 'here', never use anything else.
Use the right tools for the job. If the dog isn't food orientated, use a toy.
Our regime is fairly strict as our dogs are a little different. I have a day job, but I also work part time as a 'helper' for a dog club. The dogs here compete at an international level so the training has to be strict, nothing but perfection will do. I'm no expert, but the people I work with are. I follow what they tell me and we get results. Our dog is doing his IPO1 in December and has taken a lot of work to get there. He has training EVERY day. It doesn't have to be long, but the basics are repeated every day without fail. The most important thing is that training a dog never stops!!
We just imported a Dobermann pup from Serbia and because the first year of puppy ownership with the first one was to be quite honest, living hell, we're doing everything 'right' this time and it's making a massive difference. Put the time in, you'll have a great dog!
Crate - Absolutely! It's the dogs safe haven, somewhere to retreat to when wanting some quiet time to chill...it also helps if you want to do decorating or other things where having a dog bombing about isn't ideal. NEVER put the dog in there for punishment, it should always be a good thing.
Raw Diet - In my experience, yes! Breeder suggested (fairly strongly in fact, they did say you don't see wolves bringing dry food back to the lair...but I guess there are two arguments for that story) it and we were open to the idea. Fro breakfast he had a horrible stinky tripe sluge. Lunch was weetabix, milk with Vit2000...or something like that...added. Evening meal was raw chicken wings. I used side cutters sometimes as the pups little teeth couldn't cope with the bones so made it more manageable for him. He was put in to kennels for one week and was fed on typical kennel food. his coat looked dull and lifeless whereas he normally had such a deep shine to him. When we have run out of raw food and fed him on dry food he turned in to an evil little b
d!! EVERY single time we feed him on anything other than raw, he turns in to a little st!! He's fully grown now (2 years old) and is fed twice a day and we've used the usual companies (WolfTucker..brilliant, Natural Instinct etc) all is very good but gets expensive. He normally has a block of food with veg in the morning and the nasty stuff in the evening like carcasses, chicken backs etc. This kind of food can be bought fairly cheaply Funnily enough, our vet sits on the fence a bit with the raw diet thing.Training - Puppy classes...I have mixed views on this as with a bad school you'll do more harm than good. Without them you won't have a clue either. Where possible, I'd strongly recommend somewhere/someone that knows the breed well and can train them. In my experience, the 'reputable' place we used was awful. They weren't interested in him at all. I don't want my dog to stand on a skateboard, in a box or any of that crap. I want to know how I get control of the dog. Obedience is one thing, control is a different story entirely!
Training Part 2 - The key to success is timing and consistency. I cringe when I see people yell 'sit' hundreds of times. You're just telling the dog that 'sit' means stay there and ignore me while I yell a word at you that you don't understand. Getting a dog to sit is easy. Treat in hand, under the dogs nose and use it to manipulate the dog in to the sit or down position. The moment the dog has done what you want, use the command and give it the treat. It will very quickly understand what sit or down means.
'Sit' means sit down and stay there, you don't need to say 'stay'. If the dog moves, put it back to where it was and start again. Best way in my experience is put the dog in the sit or down position, walk away, just a few paces, walk back and put a treat between its paws and repeat but walk a little further. In no time you'll get the dog to stay there until you call it. If the dog gets up, put it back and start again. Do it 20 times if required.
ALWAYS use the same command, NEVER vary it. If the the command to call the dog over is 'here', never use anything else.
Use the right tools for the job. If the dog isn't food orientated, use a toy.
Our regime is fairly strict as our dogs are a little different. I have a day job, but I also work part time as a 'helper' for a dog club. The dogs here compete at an international level so the training has to be strict, nothing but perfection will do. I'm no expert, but the people I work with are. I follow what they tell me and we get results. Our dog is doing his IPO1 in December and has taken a lot of work to get there. He has training EVERY day. It doesn't have to be long, but the basics are repeated every day without fail. The most important thing is that training a dog never stops!!
We just imported a Dobermann pup from Serbia and because the first year of puppy ownership with the first one was to be quite honest, living hell, we're doing everything 'right' this time and it's making a massive difference. Put the time in, you'll have a great dog!
Autopilot said:
It's probably all done to death now so will be fairly brief(ish!)
Crate - Absolutely! It's the dogs safe haven, somewhere to retreat to when wanting some quiet time to chill...it also helps if you want to do decorating or other things where having a dog bombing about isn't ideal. NEVER put the dog in there for punishment, it should always be a good thing.
Raw Diet - In my experience, yes! Breeder suggested (fairly strongly in fact, they did say you don't see wolves bringing dry food back to the lair...but I guess there are two arguments for that story) it and we were open to the idea. Fro breakfast he had a horrible stinky tripe sluge. Lunch was weetabix, milk with Vit2000...or something like that...added. Evening meal was raw chicken wings. I used side cutters sometimes as the pups little teeth couldn't cope with the bones so made it more manageable for him. He was put in to kennels for one week and was fed on typical kennel food. his coat looked dull and lifeless whereas he normally had such a deep shine to him. When we have run out of raw food and fed him on dry food he turned in to an evil little bd!! EVERY single time we feed him on anything other than raw, he turns in to a little st!! He's fully grown now (2 years old) and is fed twice a day and we've used the usual companies (WolfTucker..brilliant, Natural Instinct etc) all is very good but gets expensive. He normally has a block of food with veg in the morning and the nasty stuff in the evening like carcasses, chicken backs etc. This kind of food can be bought fairly cheaply Funnily enough, our vet sits on the fence a bit with the raw diet thing.
Training - Puppy classes...I have mixed views on this as with a bad school you'll do more harm than good. Without them you won't have a clue either. Where possible, I'd strongly recommend somewhere/someone that knows the breed well and can train them. In my experience, the 'reputable' place we used was awful. They weren't interested in him at all. I don't want my dog to stand on a skateboard, in a box or any of that crap. I want to know how I get control of the dog. Obedience is one thing, control is a different story entirely!
Training Part 2 - The key to success is timing and consistency. I cringe when I see people yell 'sit' hundreds of times. You're just telling the dog that 'sit' means stay there and ignore me while I yell a word at you that you don't understand. Getting a dog to sit is easy. Treat in hand, under the dogs nose and use it to manipulate the dog in to the sit or down position. The moment the dog has done what you want, use the command and give it the treat. It will very quickly understand what sit or down means.
'Sit' means sit down and stay there, you don't need to say 'stay'. If the dog moves, put it back to where it was and start again. Best way in my experience is put the dog in the sit or down position, walk away, just a few paces, walk back and put a treat between its paws and repeat but walk a little further. In no time you'll get the dog to stay there until you call it. If the dog gets up, put it back and start again. Do it 20 times if required.
ALWAYS use the same command, NEVER vary it. If the the command to call the dog over is 'here', never use anything else.
Use the right tools for the job. If the dog isn't food orientated, use a toy.
Our regime is fairly strict as our dogs are a little different. I have a day job, but I also work part time as a 'helper' for a dog club. The dogs here compete at an international level so the training has to be strict, nothing but perfection will do. I'm no expert, but the people I work with are. I follow what they tell me and we get results. Our dog is doing his IPO1 in December and has taken a lot of work to get there. He has training EVERY day. It doesn't have to be long, but the basics are repeated every day without fail. The most important thing is that training a dog never stops!!
We just imported a Dobermann pup from Serbia and because the first year of puppy ownership with the first one was to be quite honest, living hell, we're doing everything 'right' this time and it's making a massive difference. Put the time in, you'll have a great dog!
Thanks for taking the time to post that, much appreciated. Crate - Absolutely! It's the dogs safe haven, somewhere to retreat to when wanting some quiet time to chill...it also helps if you want to do decorating or other things where having a dog bombing about isn't ideal. NEVER put the dog in there for punishment, it should always be a good thing.
Raw Diet - In my experience, yes! Breeder suggested (fairly strongly in fact, they did say you don't see wolves bringing dry food back to the lair...but I guess there are two arguments for that story) it and we were open to the idea. Fro breakfast he had a horrible stinky tripe sluge. Lunch was weetabix, milk with Vit2000...or something like that...added. Evening meal was raw chicken wings. I used side cutters sometimes as the pups little teeth couldn't cope with the bones so made it more manageable for him. He was put in to kennels for one week and was fed on typical kennel food. his coat looked dull and lifeless whereas he normally had such a deep shine to him. When we have run out of raw food and fed him on dry food he turned in to an evil little b
d!! EVERY single time we feed him on anything other than raw, he turns in to a little st!! He's fully grown now (2 years old) and is fed twice a day and we've used the usual companies (WolfTucker..brilliant, Natural Instinct etc) all is very good but gets expensive. He normally has a block of food with veg in the morning and the nasty stuff in the evening like carcasses, chicken backs etc. This kind of food can be bought fairly cheaply Funnily enough, our vet sits on the fence a bit with the raw diet thing.Training - Puppy classes...I have mixed views on this as with a bad school you'll do more harm than good. Without them you won't have a clue either. Where possible, I'd strongly recommend somewhere/someone that knows the breed well and can train them. In my experience, the 'reputable' place we used was awful. They weren't interested in him at all. I don't want my dog to stand on a skateboard, in a box or any of that crap. I want to know how I get control of the dog. Obedience is one thing, control is a different story entirely!
Training Part 2 - The key to success is timing and consistency. I cringe when I see people yell 'sit' hundreds of times. You're just telling the dog that 'sit' means stay there and ignore me while I yell a word at you that you don't understand. Getting a dog to sit is easy. Treat in hand, under the dogs nose and use it to manipulate the dog in to the sit or down position. The moment the dog has done what you want, use the command and give it the treat. It will very quickly understand what sit or down means.
'Sit' means sit down and stay there, you don't need to say 'stay'. If the dog moves, put it back to where it was and start again. Best way in my experience is put the dog in the sit or down position, walk away, just a few paces, walk back and put a treat between its paws and repeat but walk a little further. In no time you'll get the dog to stay there until you call it. If the dog gets up, put it back and start again. Do it 20 times if required.
ALWAYS use the same command, NEVER vary it. If the the command to call the dog over is 'here', never use anything else.
Use the right tools for the job. If the dog isn't food orientated, use a toy.
Our regime is fairly strict as our dogs are a little different. I have a day job, but I also work part time as a 'helper' for a dog club. The dogs here compete at an international level so the training has to be strict, nothing but perfection will do. I'm no expert, but the people I work with are. I follow what they tell me and we get results. Our dog is doing his IPO1 in December and has taken a lot of work to get there. He has training EVERY day. It doesn't have to be long, but the basics are repeated every day without fail. The most important thing is that training a dog never stops!!
We just imported a Dobermann pup from Serbia and because the first year of puppy ownership with the first one was to be quite honest, living hell, we're doing everything 'right' this time and it's making a massive difference. Put the time in, you'll have a great dog!
We are on a grain free 80/20 kibble right now but will move to raw I think.
Crate training going well, she will go in on her own accord every now and then. Not sleeping through yet but she's only 10 weeks.
Training is ongoing and amusing.
Thanks again.
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