Why no fish threads?
Discussion
Ki3r said:
I'm just about to set up my first fish tank 
. Only something small (one of those all in one jobbies). Going to get it set up tonight/tomorrow and put the fish in Monday I think .
I would urge you to slow down!. Only something small (one of those all in one jobbies). Going to get it set up tonight/tomorrow and put the fish in Monday I think . Do a Google search for "fishless cycling" and read as much as you can about the nitrogen cycle in aquarium systems. Follow the instructions on how to do fishless cycling to establish the necessary beneficial bacteria that will convert highly poisonous ammonia into nitrite, and then nitrate. Use a test kit to determine when your aquarium's water has gone through the ammonia spike and the nitrite spike, and then add your fish. They'll be much healthier for it.
Fishless cycling need only take a week or so, and is far kinder on the first fish that you add to the tank.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
I would urge you to slow down!
Do a Google search for "fishless cycling" and read as much as you can about the nitrogen cycle in aquarium systems. Follow the instructions on how to do fishless cycling to establish the necessary beneficial bacteria that will convert highly poisonous ammonia into nitrite, and then nitrate. Use a test kit to determine when your aquarium's water has gone through the ammonia spike and the nitrite spike, and then add your fish. They'll be much healthier for it.
Fishless cycling need only take a week or so, and is far kinder on the first fish that you add to the tank.
I was just about to ask this, I was looking on the Pets at Home website for something else, and ended up looking at the 'advice' page about fish, it said to wait a week, however, the stickers on the tanks at the shop said three days. Do a Google search for "fishless cycling" and read as much as you can about the nitrogen cycle in aquarium systems. Follow the instructions on how to do fishless cycling to establish the necessary beneficial bacteria that will convert highly poisonous ammonia into nitrite, and then nitrate. Use a test kit to determine when your aquarium's water has gone through the ammonia spike and the nitrite spike, and then add your fish. They'll be much healthier for it.
Fishless cycling need only take a week or so, and is far kinder on the first fish that you add to the tank.
Would this be what I need?
Also seen this one.
The first test kit tests for everything (including stuff you don't need to worry about) except ammonia which is very important, and the second one only tests for nitrate, which isn't very useful.
The chemical symbols you need to look out for are:
In the last decade or so, "fishless cycling" is where it's at. Instead of adding fish, you add ammonia in small amounts (but amounts that would probably be fatal to fish). Then you wait until the bacteria have multiplied. How do you know? You use a test kit to measure the level of ammonia/ammonium and nitrite. You'll see the ammonia level high at first, then suddenly falling, followed by a "spike" in the level of nitrite, which should also drop to zero. Once the levels of both are zero, you do a water change to remove any excess nitrAte and then you put a full stocking of fish in immediately - having built up those bacteria, you need to provide them with food, and the fish excreta will do that.
I believe you can buy substances to kick off fishless cycling from fish shops (or you can add fish food and let it decay into ammonium), but I've had great success using an entirely natural source of ammonium that my body produces plenty of, and you only need a thimbleful every day. Probably easier if you're male, though, and if you're not convinced about it then just use the commercially available products.
In my experience fishless cycling generally completes in about 10-14 days at tropical temperature, and the "spikes" happen very quickly after a long time of nothing happening! It's much easier than it sounds; I've just explained a lot of the theory that you need to understand as a fish keeper.
So you need a kit to measure ammonia/ammonium (NH3/NH4), and a kit to measure nitrite (NO2 - with an "i"). You could also measure the final level of nitrate (NO3) if you feel like it - should be below about 40 ppm ideally.
The chemical symbols you need to look out for are:
- NH3 or NH4 = ammonia / ammonium. For our purposes, these are the same thing and is the most poisonous of the nitrogen-based waste products in aquarium water. A healthy, mature tank will always have zero, but if you put fish into a completely new tank their excreted waste will rapidly cause a spike in the level of ammonia/ammonium.
- NO2 = nitrite. Note the "i" in the spelling. This is less poisonous than ammonia/ammonium, but still very bad. A healthy mature tank will have zero. In a mature tank, bacteria will convert ammonia/ammonium into nitrite, but you won't get enough of those bacteria until you have a source of ammonia/ammonium to start with.
- NO3 = nitrate. Note the "a" in the spelling. Much, much less poisonous than ammonia or nitrite (in fact, there's often surprisingly high amounts of nitrate in the water we all drink). In a mature tank, a second type of bacteria convert nitrite into nitrate, but you'll never get enough of these bacteria until you have a source of nitrite. In a healthy mature tank, nitrate is removed by plant growth and by regular water changes.
In the last decade or so, "fishless cycling" is where it's at. Instead of adding fish, you add ammonia in small amounts (but amounts that would probably be fatal to fish). Then you wait until the bacteria have multiplied. How do you know? You use a test kit to measure the level of ammonia/ammonium and nitrite. You'll see the ammonia level high at first, then suddenly falling, followed by a "spike" in the level of nitrite, which should also drop to zero. Once the levels of both are zero, you do a water change to remove any excess nitrAte and then you put a full stocking of fish in immediately - having built up those bacteria, you need to provide them with food, and the fish excreta will do that.
I believe you can buy substances to kick off fishless cycling from fish shops (or you can add fish food and let it decay into ammonium), but I've had great success using an entirely natural source of ammonium that my body produces plenty of, and you only need a thimbleful every day. Probably easier if you're male, though, and if you're not convinced about it then just use the commercially available products.
In my experience fishless cycling generally completes in about 10-14 days at tropical temperature, and the "spikes" happen very quickly after a long time of nothing happening! It's much easier than it sounds; I've just explained a lot of the theory that you need to understand as a fish keeper.
So you need a kit to measure ammonia/ammonium (NH3/NH4), and a kit to measure nitrite (NO2 - with an "i"). You could also measure the final level of nitrate (NO3) if you feel like it - should be below about 40 ppm ideally.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Sunday 17th August 09:19
On George Clarke's amazing spaces http://www.nottinghampost.com/Carlton-man-aquarium...
Shaw Tarse said:
On George Clarke's amazing spaces http://www.nottinghampost.com/Carlton-man-aquarium...
He's had to shut that tank down recently after the electricity company gave him a bill for £6000 
Apparently had a massive struggle rehoming the fish due to no-one else having a tank big enough. funny that.
I've got my tank up and running, couple of black fancys in there, bit stupid to get black ones as the background is black...
I've got hopefully a quick question.
My filter (tank/filter/light all in one) keeps getting blocked, meaning after a week or so it is just pumping out air, often starts at night waking me up.
I have cleaned the filter and done a part water change (roughly 25%), but a week later its happened again. Is this normal?
I've got hopefully a quick question.
My filter (tank/filter/light all in one) keeps getting blocked, meaning after a week or so it is just pumping out air, often starts at night waking me up.
I have cleaned the filter and done a part water change (roughly 25%), but a week later its happened again. Is this normal?
What type of filter is it? Internal or external?
I'm puzzled when you say it's pumping out air - where is the air coming from? Most filtration systems are full of water when working, and there should be no air in it at all. Therefore, if it's pumping out air (bubbles?) then air must be getting sucked in somewhere. If the filter were merely blocked then the water flow would reduce, but you wouldn't see air bubbles.
If it's an external filter - where water siphons out of the tank via a flexible plastic hose to a cylindrical canister outside the tank containing the filter media, and a pump in the head of the canister then pushes the water back to the tank via a second hose - then it's conceivable that a leak in the siphon tube could be drawing air in, which then gets trapped in the filter canister and eventually causes the water flow to stop.
But if it's an internal filter then there shouldn't be any air in it at all once it has settled down (when newly set up there's usually the odd bubble of air trapped inside the filter body, but it'll gradually spit those out).
Also, there's no way a filter would get blocked in such a short time, unless it got blocked by a single, large object - which would usually be obvious.
Are you really sure it's getting blocked, and it's not some kind of leak allowing air in?
I'm puzzled when you say it's pumping out air - where is the air coming from? Most filtration systems are full of water when working, and there should be no air in it at all. Therefore, if it's pumping out air (bubbles?) then air must be getting sucked in somewhere. If the filter were merely blocked then the water flow would reduce, but you wouldn't see air bubbles.
If it's an external filter - where water siphons out of the tank via a flexible plastic hose to a cylindrical canister outside the tank containing the filter media, and a pump in the head of the canister then pushes the water back to the tank via a second hose - then it's conceivable that a leak in the siphon tube could be drawing air in, which then gets trapped in the filter canister and eventually causes the water flow to stop.
But if it's an internal filter then there shouldn't be any air in it at all once it has settled down (when newly set up there's usually the odd bubble of air trapped inside the filter body, but it'll gradually spit those out).
Also, there's no way a filter would get blocked in such a short time, unless it got blocked by a single, large object - which would usually be obvious.
Are you really sure it's getting blocked, and it's not some kind of leak allowing air in?
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Sunday 7th September 09:40
It may make no sense how I try and explain this, so bare with me!
It's internal.
At the rear of the tank are four compartments. About two inches in depth. First one (left of tank) has a couple of holes that water appears to be drawn from the main tank. At the bottom there is a gap that goes into a bigger compartment, in here is a sponge type thing, something in a bag (carbon?) and another sponge on the top. Then the next one has the same, but rather than carbon it's something else in white (I can found out what if needed), then in the final compartment is a pump, this is plugged into the mains and pumps water back into the tank (through a hole that is submerged).
It appears that after a week or so the forth compartment has a lower water level than the others. To me, it appears to be because it's pumping more water out than drawing in, due to it getting blocked?
I take the carbon side sponge out and it's got stuff (just general fish crap by the looks of it) and food (possibly giving a bit too much?).
Give it a rinse out, pop it back in and the levels stay the same in the four compartments.
I hope that makes sense, I can take photos etc if needed but my laptop is broken and using my phone.
It's internal.
At the rear of the tank are four compartments. About two inches in depth. First one (left of tank) has a couple of holes that water appears to be drawn from the main tank. At the bottom there is a gap that goes into a bigger compartment, in here is a sponge type thing, something in a bag (carbon?) and another sponge on the top. Then the next one has the same, but rather than carbon it's something else in white (I can found out what if needed), then in the final compartment is a pump, this is plugged into the mains and pumps water back into the tank (through a hole that is submerged).
It appears that after a week or so the forth compartment has a lower water level than the others. To me, it appears to be because it's pumping more water out than drawing in, due to it getting blocked?
I take the carbon side sponge out and it's got stuff (just general fish crap by the looks of it) and food (possibly giving a bit too much?).
Give it a rinse out, pop it back in and the levels stay the same in the four compartments.
I hope that makes sense, I can take photos etc if needed but my laptop is broken and using my phone.
An internal filter should be completely submerged, and there should be no way for air to get into it.
If the water level is falling in one of the filter's chambers, that must mean that air is getting in. That should not be happening.
If too much air gets in, the pump will become "unprimed"; i.e. it is unable to draw water in and therefore can't pump water through.
I don't think your filter is getting blocked. I think air is getting into it, and you need to work out how that is happening. Is the body of your filter completely submerged? My bet is that it should be, but it's not.
If the water level is falling in one of the filter's chambers, that must mean that air is getting in. That should not be happening.
If too much air gets in, the pump will become "unprimed"; i.e. it is unable to draw water in and therefore can't pump water through.
I don't think your filter is getting blocked. I think air is getting into it, and you need to work out how that is happening. Is the body of your filter completely submerged? My bet is that it should be, but it's not.
Ki3r said:
It may make no sense how I try and explain this, so bare with me!
It's internal.
At the rear of the tank are four compartments. About two inches in depth. First one (left of tank) has a couple of holes that water appears to be drawn from the main tank. At the bottom there is a gap that goes into a bigger compartment, in here is a sponge type thing, something in a bag (carbon?) and another sponge on the top. Then the next one has the same, but rather than carbon it's something else in white (I can found out what if needed), then in the final compartment is a pump, this is plugged into the mains and pumps water back into the tank (through a hole that is submerged).
It appears that after a week or so the forth compartment has a lower water level than the others. To me, it appears to be because it's pumping more water out than drawing in, due to it getting blocked?
I take the carbon side sponge out and it's got stuff (just general fish crap by the looks of it) and food (possibly giving a bit too much?).
Give it a rinse out, pop it back in and the levels stay the same in the four compartments.
I hope that makes sense, I can take photos etc if needed but my laptop is broken and using my phone.
Ah, sounds like you have an AquaOne aquanano tank? My father-in-law had one of these, actually really good tanks as they effectively have a built in sump system in the back of the tank. We had the same issue with his. It's caused by the big lump of foam in the first compartment getting clogged up and restricting the flow. the foam provides mechanical filtration, i.e. taking the particles out of the water. You should make sure you take this out every time you do a partial water change (once a week) and rinse the sponge out in the old tank water bucket, this will stop it getting clogged.It's internal.
At the rear of the tank are four compartments. About two inches in depth. First one (left of tank) has a couple of holes that water appears to be drawn from the main tank. At the bottom there is a gap that goes into a bigger compartment, in here is a sponge type thing, something in a bag (carbon?) and another sponge on the top. Then the next one has the same, but rather than carbon it's something else in white (I can found out what if needed), then in the final compartment is a pump, this is plugged into the mains and pumps water back into the tank (through a hole that is submerged).
It appears that after a week or so the forth compartment has a lower water level than the others. To me, it appears to be because it's pumping more water out than drawing in, due to it getting blocked?
I take the carbon side sponge out and it's got stuff (just general fish crap by the looks of it) and food (possibly giving a bit too much?).
Give it a rinse out, pop it back in and the levels stay the same in the four compartments.
I hope that makes sense, I can take photos etc if needed but my laptop is broken and using my phone.
The pump is literally just a standard powerhead stuck in there, and I think they re slightly too powerful for the size of the tank. There should be a lever with a + and - to control the flow, try turning it down slightly so that the flow is more balanced across the compartments.
It's one of these, but smaller so sounds very similar.
Glad it's not just me that it happens to. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing.
Thank you.
Finally named my fish, Phillip and Holly...sad I know.
Glad it's not just me that it happens to. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing
. Thank you.
Finally named my fish, Phillip and Holly...sad I know.
I've recently got into fish keeping as my 18month old daughter loves fish. I can only echo what someone said above about cycling - 5 weeks ago I bought a 40 litre tank and went to my LFS for advice, I told them the tank was literally hours old and needed advice; they sold me NINE fish, including a Corydora. I've been battling mega ammonia and nitrite levels ever since. The Cory died a couple of weeks ago and last night one of the guppies was bent in half and swimming on its side. I've taken it out and it's still alive but it's clearly done for. I just hope its a water quality issue (Amm is mega high) rather than 'fish tb' as I bought a 180litre tank a week ago and 'seeded' it with some of the gravel and media from the small tank 
This time I've left it empty and running for a week and then added two Platys to help cycle it. Hoping to put SA cichlids in it. I just hope the tanks aren't infected.
This time I've left it empty and running for a week and then added two Platys to help cycle it. Hoping to put SA cichlids in it. I just hope the tanks aren't infected.
Fish can cope with small amounts of ammonia, especially if you have soft water as the total ammonia in the tank will be mainly composed of ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic. What kills fish is the nitrite spike you get as the tank cycles, hence why often fish appear ok for a few weeks until the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite start multiplying. You then have to wait again for the second sort of bacteria, which convert the nitrite to nitrate to get stuck in. Nitrite is much more toxic to fish than ammonia.
I very rarely ask for fish shop sales people to give me advice, at the end of the day their business is selling more fish. There's one or two people that I have come across who are spot on. The best guy I have come across runs a shop in Sidcup called Abacus Aquatics, he wouldn't sell me some gorgeous synodontis catfish until I'd convinced him I knew what I was doing, I respected him a lot for that. Ended up in there about an hour chatting and drinking coffee
I very rarely ask for fish shop sales people to give me advice, at the end of the day their business is selling more fish. There's one or two people that I have come across who are spot on. The best guy I have come across runs a shop in Sidcup called Abacus Aquatics, he wouldn't sell me some gorgeous synodontis catfish until I'd convinced him I knew what I was doing, I respected him a lot for that. Ended up in there about an hour chatting and drinking coffee
Edited by lufbramatt on Sunday 28th September 11:34
lufbramatt said:
Fish can cope with small amounts of ammonia, especially if you have soft water as the total ammonia in the tank will be mainly composed of ammonium (NH4+) which isn't toxic. What kills fish is the nitrite spike you get as the tank cycles, hence why often fish appear ok for a few weeks until the bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite start multiplying. You then have to wait again for the second sort of bacteria, which convert the nitrite to nitrate to get stuck in. Nitrite is much more toxic to fish than ammonia.
Some of what you've written is correct, but some of it is significantly wrong.Ammonium (NH4) most definitely is highly toxic to fish, just slightly less toxic than free ammonia. In practice, ammonia and ammonium will co-exist in dynamic equilibrium, and I believe test kits show the total of both.
Nitrite (NO2) is less toxic to fish than ammonium/ammonia, but is still very bad. Hardy fish can put up with low levels of nitrite for a while but they won't really be healthy.
Nitrate (NO3) is vastly less toxic than nitrite. Virtually all freshwater fish can put up with moderate levels of nitrate, although the lower the better. 40 ppm or below is generally good enough; 100 ppm is bad. The effect of nitrates is more long-term, and many fish can become acclimatised to higher levels but will always be healthier in lower levels.
Edited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Thursday 30th October 15:23
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