Who doesn't/can't walk their dog off the lead
Discussion
AdiT said:
As for b) I've yet to hear it said of any breed that I don't actually know of at least one that is off the lead regularly. If you do it early enough it's easier. Sure some might take more teaching than others and there may be some that will never get it but I think they all deserve a chance.
Sorry but with some breeds it is just not sensible to let them off lead, my Mal is one of them and if/when they decide to go they can easily cover 50+ miles at speed, all the breed experts state they shouldn't be let off lead unless in enclosed areas and tbh its not something I'd ever risk.AdiT said:
YOU have to TEACH your dog how to behave off lead. YOU have to TEACH it to pay attention to you, even when it's doing something else. YOU have to TEACH it to recall off lead. That takes time and patience from YOU. Being off the lead in a big open space is not the same thing to a dog, as in the garden or on a long lead...
Buy an LGD, then get back to me on that. Also, try your recall when there is a threat within 100 yards...AdiT said:
There seems, whenever I talk to someone who can't let their dog off lead, to be a lot of assumptions...
a) that their dog should have instantly known how to behave when they let them off. Then when they don't, they're not trusted again.
b) That that breed can't be trusted offlead.
c) Both of the above.
YOU have to TEACH your dog how to behave off lead. YOU have to TEACH it to pay attention to you, even when it's doing something else. YOU have to TEACH it to recall off lead. That takes time and patience from YOU. Being off the lead in a big open space is not the same thing to a dog, as in the garden or on a long lead... So just because he's OK in the garden don't expect him to be in a field; Give him time... and just shouting it's name isn't a recall command. OK, so there's a risk he might get lost or hurt while you're spending a few weeks teaching. But he might do that any time for the rest of his life should he slip the lead and not know how to behave.
As for b) I've yet to hear it said of any breed that I don't actually know of at least one that is off the lead regularly. If you do it early enough it's easier. Sure some might take more teaching than others and there may be some that will never get it but I think they all deserve a chance.
It really can't be that difficult; I'm a first time dog owner and managed it with a Weim FFS.
How rude - and I think you are making a lot of assumptions.a) that their dog should have instantly known how to behave when they let them off. Then when they don't, they're not trusted again.
b) That that breed can't be trusted offlead.
c) Both of the above.
YOU have to TEACH your dog how to behave off lead. YOU have to TEACH it to pay attention to you, even when it's doing something else. YOU have to TEACH it to recall off lead. That takes time and patience from YOU. Being off the lead in a big open space is not the same thing to a dog, as in the garden or on a long lead... So just because he's OK in the garden don't expect him to be in a field; Give him time... and just shouting it's name isn't a recall command. OK, so there's a risk he might get lost or hurt while you're spending a few weeks teaching. But he might do that any time for the rest of his life should he slip the lead and not know how to behave.
As for b) I've yet to hear it said of any breed that I don't actually know of at least one that is off the lead regularly. If you do it early enough it's easier. Sure some might take more teaching than others and there may be some that will never get it but I think they all deserve a chance.
It really can't be that difficult; I'm a first time dog owner and managed it with a Weim FFS.
You're a first time dog owner, I'm on my 11th (plus family dogs). All have been rescue dogs, some youngish, some middle aged, some elderly when they came to me. All with different levels of training (or not).
A Weim is a lot different to a greyhound who has been trained to chase (at high speed) any small furry moving object. That on top of years of selective breeding to do so.
NOTHING (including me) is more interesting than the chase.
My decisions are based on experience and a desire to keep my dogs safe. I lost one of my dogs to a broken back because she chased after an animal and fell. Should I take that risk again????
AdiT said:
YOU have to TEACH your dog how to behave off lead. YOU have to TEACH it to pay attention to you, even when it's doing something else. YOU have to TEACH it to recall off lead. That takes time and patience from YOU.
You're welcome to come and help teach Cindy, in fact if you can you'd be a rich man. We've done one to one tuition with the Dogs Trust and spent hours and hours trying to get her to focus her attention on me while on the lead as she will want to chase squirrels and she hates cats she sees during a walk. It doesn't matter how much training we've done with her she will still react, but on the lead I can control her focus and steer her head away giving me control. Off the lead she'd be gone and there's no way I would get the attention of a dog who is highly excited, deaf and 100% focused on something else. I've grown up with dogs and never had a problem in the past with letting them off the lead but some dogs just can't be trusted whether due to breed, temperament or something else. I certainly don't want to put Cindy in any kind of situation where she may end up running off and attacking a cat or even a dog if one reacted badly to her. She is a powerful dog and could do serious harm if she was involved in a fight, if you've ever been around a Bull Terrier then you'd know that they are tenacious and won't quit. Is it worth the risk for me? No, never.
We are lucky where we live we have a huge open spaces/fields within 2 minutes of the house and a few woods within 10 min driving time (sherwood forest).
So Ella our 19mth old Lab has been allowed off lead from a young age and Jake our recently adopted 9 yr old Lab has always been so aswell, They are both very good at recall and will only approach other dogs/people after looking at us for the ok.
However they are always on lead anywhere near roads, and we will put them on lead if we see someone with their dog on the lead or Cyclists/ horses in the woods as we dont want to take the very slim chance that either of them have a mad moment and decide to play chase.
So Ella our 19mth old Lab has been allowed off lead from a young age and Jake our recently adopted 9 yr old Lab has always been so aswell, They are both very good at recall and will only approach other dogs/people after looking at us for the ok.
However they are always on lead anywhere near roads, and we will put them on lead if we see someone with their dog on the lead or Cyclists/ horses in the woods as we dont want to take the very slim chance that either of them have a mad moment and decide to play chase.
Ours generally are on long leads all the time. If I know an particular walk is low risk from roads/livestock/other hazards, the Wire Fox Terrier can go off-lead. I trained him every day for a year from a pup. After two serious infractions on consecutive days, his goose was cooked.
The other terrier is a rescue (we've had for 6 months)& whilst I'm still training him, it's not as intense as the other one & he has a much stronger hunting instinct.
They were both free on the drop leads on Sunday but this was in a fairly safe known spot.
They will both do recall when one is off-lead, the other on 100ft long/drop lead but not always in sufficient time to instil confidence.
Also, the traffic surrounding the local park is atrocious, 9/10 belt throughout the residential roads.
When I was training the Wire, he was reprimanded when he pulled, lingered or shot off when on the long lead (30-100 ft) & praised/rewarded each time he relented or ignored the distraction. It works, but as mentioned above, I couldn't get it to the required level.
The other terrier is a rescue (we've had for 6 months)& whilst I'm still training him, it's not as intense as the other one & he has a much stronger hunting instinct.
They were both free on the drop leads on Sunday but this was in a fairly safe known spot.
They will both do recall when one is off-lead, the other on 100ft long/drop lead but not always in sufficient time to instil confidence.
Also, the traffic surrounding the local park is atrocious, 9/10 belt throughout the residential roads.
When I was training the Wire, he was reprimanded when he pulled, lingered or shot off when on the long lead (30-100 ft) & praised/rewarded each time he relented or ignored the distraction. It works, but as mentioned above, I couldn't get it to the required level.
I'm in the middle of training my Boston Terrier, he's two in March.
He will recall to his name if there's nothing too interesting to him, another dog or sometimes a person and he's off. Just bought a whistle as he seems to recall quicker to his name if I do it in a stupid high pitch voice. Hopefully the interest in other dogs will calm down a bit as he matures. I cant wait to get to the point where he'll walk nicely off the lead and listen to me.
He will recall to his name if there's nothing too interesting to him, another dog or sometimes a person and he's off. Just bought a whistle as he seems to recall quicker to his name if I do it in a stupid high pitch voice. Hopefully the interest in other dogs will calm down a bit as he matures. I cant wait to get to the point where he'll walk nicely off the lead and listen to me.
Our husky 8yr old Shadow (had from a pup) goes off lead whenever we get to a park/woods. She was about 2 when we started off lead, initially in confined spaces, then ventured further a field. We've put ALOT of training into her and we trust her. We know her personality too. She can have a deaf ear on occasion, but you tend to know when she'll be like it and keep her close or on lead. She'll be a cowbag chasing squirrels, dead or injured birds (phesants and pigeons) and rabbits though.
We had another Husky, Maverick (RIP). He could not ever ever be let off. Even a wiff of an unclipped or loose walking belt or lead and he would be off. I recall doing a 6mile trek trying to get him back on the beach once!
All other rescue Huskys that we've fostered have never been allowed off lead as again, first wiff of freedom and they're off!
We had another Husky, Maverick (RIP). He could not ever ever be let off. Even a wiff of an unclipped or loose walking belt or lead and he would be off. I recall doing a 6mile trek trying to get him back on the beach once!
All other rescue Huskys that we've fostered have never been allowed off lead as again, first wiff of freedom and they're off!
Our old gsd was perfect off the lead, made a number of other walkers jealous. My current dog, Alaskan Mal can't be trusted, has nothing to do with teaching/training, she's still a bit young and her pray instinct a bit too strong, anything small and furry is fair game in her mind. As she gets older (currently about 18 months) she'll calm down, so it may change.
Pickled said:
Sorry but with some breeds it is just not sensible to let them off lead, my Mal is one of them and if/when they decide to go they can easily cover 50+ miles at speed, all the breed experts state they shouldn't be let off lead unless in enclosed areas and tbh its not something I'd ever risk.
I was chatting to a local who is on his 7th mal, I was asking his advice on recall. He gave me plenty of tips, but basically said that in the end all the training in the world would not always over come 3000 years of breeding. A large garden with a fence was the safest place to let them run.Pickled said:
AdiT said:
As for b) I've yet to hear it said of any breed that I don't actually know of at least one that is off the lead regularly. If you do it early enough it's easier. Sure some might take more teaching than others and there may be some that will never get it but I think they all deserve a chance.
Sorry but with some breeds it is just not sensible to let them off lead, my Mal is one of them and if/when they decide to go they can easily cover 50+ miles at speed, all the breed experts state they shouldn't be let off lead unless in enclosed areas and tbh its not something I'd ever risk.
Reading Adi's post is similar to listening to advice from the person with the worst behaved dog in the park (no offense but the people with the worst behaved dogs are always the ones to offer advice / force their opinion on you).
I'd be shocked if you see any LGD running around off the lead. Ours was until he hit about a year old and then he became an absolute terror. He's very smart and knows exactly what we want of him but does exactly what he wants and on his own terms when he's off the lead. Due to his size, he frightens the life out of some people and sometimes dogs too. He also got bitten when he was a puppy by a German Shepherd and he has never forgotten this so we need to make sure that he's on a lead when he sees one because he lets them know he isn't happy.
10 years ago I had a male boxer that wouldn't come back whatever I did, he was as soft as mud but if you let him off he'd just run around and around until he was knackered
Best one was when I let him off along a canal towpath , got to a cut which was covered in weed with some ducks on the other side.
I did a sort of slow motion NOooooooooooo but it was too late, he thought the weed was grass ,SPADOOSHHH
came out stinking of stagnant canal
Never let him off again after that , used one of those long leads they have for horses
Best one was when I let him off along a canal towpath , got to a cut which was covered in weed with some ducks on the other side.
I did a sort of slow motion NOooooooooooo but it was too late, he thought the weed was grass ,SPADOOSHHH
came out stinking of stagnant canal
Never let him off again after that , used one of those long leads they have for horses
Thankfully our gsd scout is fine off lead (rehomed aged about 2, fairly well trained already but quite overweight), will walk to heal if I want him to, good with other dogs and doesn't tend to venture to far away, intact he hates us to be out of his sight! I only really put his lead on if by a busy road or built up area with lots of people. Or if someone walking towards us has a dog on lead and looks a bit intimidated which can happen often as he's quite a big boy! Had one old dear actually pick her two mini Yorkies up off floor incase he went for them, even after I'd explained he's perfectly friendly!
Our Yorkie is also fine off lead, as she's older she just bumbles along behind us sniffing everything and anything, if anything she's annoyingly slow sometimes, no chance of her running off!
Only annoyance really is scout really doesn't like being left somewhere out of sight, separation anxiety perhaps, hates to be tied up outside a shop. Perfectly fine to be left in the car though, loves the car!
Our Yorkie is also fine off lead, as she's older she just bumbles along behind us sniffing everything and anything, if anything she's annoyingly slow sometimes, no chance of her running off!
Only annoyance really is scout really doesn't like being left somewhere out of sight, separation anxiety perhaps, hates to be tied up outside a shop. Perfectly fine to be left in the car though, loves the car!
blueST said:
Sort of inspired by the first time off the lead thread going on... Who has never walked their dog off the lead in public?
I've no doubt this is ulimately down to us and how we brought him up, we can't walk our Bassett off the lead unless he is in a completely enclosed area. He has such limited recall obedience it's staggering, he'll only recall immediately when there is absolutely nothing else competing for his attention. Any type of scent, birds, cats, dogs etc etc and he's off. I can stand there with his stinkiest favourite tripe treat, calling his name like an idiot and he'll just turn, look at me, obviously weighing up what's in it for him, and then walk off in the opposite direction! If he could stick two fingers up he would. And then, as if to make it look like it was his decision, a minute or two later, once he's finished whatever enquiries he was making, he'll come galloping back for his treat.
Is he one of them French Bassats, called bert, and comes to my park? I've no doubt this is ulimately down to us and how we brought him up, we can't walk our Bassett off the lead unless he is in a completely enclosed area. He has such limited recall obedience it's staggering, he'll only recall immediately when there is absolutely nothing else competing for his attention. Any type of scent, birds, cats, dogs etc etc and he's off. I can stand there with his stinkiest favourite tripe treat, calling his name like an idiot and he'll just turn, look at me, obviously weighing up what's in it for him, and then walk off in the opposite direction! If he could stick two fingers up he would. And then, as if to make it look like it was his decision, a minute or two later, once he's finished whatever enquiries he was making, he'll come galloping back for his treat.
The owners of this dog walk to the park, let him off the lead and immediatly try to get him back under control. An hour later, he's had his walk and they have just about managed to get hold of him.
Our 2 year old Yorkshire Terrier is so so off the lead. Sometimes he'll be good as gold but other times he just doesn't want to listen.
He's always wanting to play, so if he sees another dog playing, he'll just run off and you've got no chance of getting him back, unless you shout really really really loud.
Most of the time, I just keep him on the lead and I ask the other dog's owner first, whether or not he is okay to play. If it's a big open field, with no one else in sight, then he's fine to be let off and will always come back when I shout or whistle.
Recently though, he's taken a real disliking to kids on bikes, after some little s
t teased him and nearly hit him, whilst off his lead. I plan on buying a recall lead and using a friends child on a bike as bait, so that I can try and teach him that it's nothing to worry about.
He's always wanting to play, so if he sees another dog playing, he'll just run off and you've got no chance of getting him back, unless you shout really really really loud.
Most of the time, I just keep him on the lead and I ask the other dog's owner first, whether or not he is okay to play. If it's a big open field, with no one else in sight, then he's fine to be let off and will always come back when I shout or whistle.
Recently though, he's taken a real disliking to kids on bikes, after some little s
t teased him and nearly hit him, whilst off his lead. I plan on buying a recall lead and using a friends child on a bike as bait, so that I can try and teach him that it's nothing to worry about.
TheBALDpuma said:
Is he one of them French Bassats, called bert, and comes to my park?
The owners of this dog walk to the park, let him off the lead and immediatly try to get him back under control. An hour later, he's had his walk and they have just about managed to get hold of him.
That is precisely what would happen if I did let him off!The owners of this dog walk to the park, let him off the lead and immediatly try to get him back under control. An hour later, he's had his walk and they have just about managed to get hold of him.
Only let Simba off in a couple of places - both where i have a long line of sight and doesn't have a million of side routes. If i clock something/someone early, i call him back, get him on a lead, and let him off again once it's passed.
Some days i can walk him off lead for an hour, other days (esp. in winter where there's less daylight hours so the routes are more congested) he stays on the short lead all the way round.
Some days i can walk him off lead for an hour, other days (esp. in winter where there's less daylight hours so the routes are more congested) he stays on the short lead all the way round.
On the advice of some dog-obsessed friends, we let our Staffy off the lead pretty as often as possible when we started walking her.
I think she's better behaved off the lead than on to be honest. When she's on the lead she's quite skittish around other dogs.
As her breed is not always, shall we say, well-received, we made sure to work bloody hard on her recall and she's pretty good. If she's hard at play with another dog we have to choose the right moment to call her but if I start walking away she understands that's play time over.
Mind you, if I see another dog on lead I put her on straight away. If their dog is off the lead then I'll just make a judgement call on whether to keep her off or not.
I'm pretty sure I could walk on the street with her to heel but it's not worth finding out I'm wrong so I don't. I've experimented at 5.30am when there's no traffic and she was fine, but that's as much as I'd risk it.
A couple of years ago I stumbled into a little old lady walking a Yorkshire terrier (or similar). The yorkie snapped and growled at my dog so I carried on.
Not long after, I noticed her walking past the park where I was chucking a ball for my dog on our local park, and sometimes she'd just stop and stare. It was a bit alarming. The one day, she came over and said she'd never let her dog off the lead in public and wondered if the two dogs would play.
So she unhooked it and my Staffy and her Yorkie had a great time playing together. We crossed paths regularly and always let them have a play. The lady she was so chuffed to see her dog having such a good time.
I think she's better behaved off the lead than on to be honest. When she's on the lead she's quite skittish around other dogs.
As her breed is not always, shall we say, well-received, we made sure to work bloody hard on her recall and she's pretty good. If she's hard at play with another dog we have to choose the right moment to call her but if I start walking away she understands that's play time over.
Mind you, if I see another dog on lead I put her on straight away. If their dog is off the lead then I'll just make a judgement call on whether to keep her off or not.
I'm pretty sure I could walk on the street with her to heel but it's not worth finding out I'm wrong so I don't. I've experimented at 5.30am when there's no traffic and she was fine, but that's as much as I'd risk it.
A couple of years ago I stumbled into a little old lady walking a Yorkshire terrier (or similar). The yorkie snapped and growled at my dog so I carried on.
Not long after, I noticed her walking past the park where I was chucking a ball for my dog on our local park, and sometimes she'd just stop and stare. It was a bit alarming. The one day, she came over and said she'd never let her dog off the lead in public and wondered if the two dogs would play.
So she unhooked it and my Staffy and her Yorkie had a great time playing together. We crossed paths regularly and always let them have a play. The lady she was so chuffed to see her dog having such a good time.
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