Holly the Golden Retriever - Pregnant!

[bexVN]

Make sure potential new owners will return the dogs to you if they run into problems. That way you'll know the pups will be safe if things go awry with the owners. It is quite common practice amongst the good breeders.

[moorx]

badgerade said:

The fact that there are so many dogs in rescue suggests that there is an issue with how easy it is to get a dog in the first place?

Far too many people go into dog ownership without fully understanding what they're getting involved with, and it seems there is very little in place to stop this happening. We have a local garden centre near us that sells puppies as if they are hamsters.. People walk in, see them, buy them. I'd hazard a guess that a large percentage of them end up in a rescue centre (And I would doubt that the mother/pups are treated brilliantly either).

Something we can both agree on!

I expect most of the pups at the garden centre (God help us ) come from puppy farms

As you say, too many people see dogs as a 'commodity' that they must have and they must have NOW! Evidenced by your observation that:

badgerade said:

Others are taking more of a "I want one of your dogs" approach and then appear to be quite offended when we are asking for more information.

[badgerade]

bexVN said:

Make sure potential new owners will return the dogs to you if they run into problems. That way you'll know the pups will be safe if things go awry with the owners. It is quite common practice amongst the good breeders.

Yep - that's the agreement we had with the breeders we got our current retrievers from and is definitely something we plan to do

[Shaw Tarse]

Don't forget PHOTOS

[KFC]

badgerade said:

I’m not sure that your best case scenario is really best case? Obviously you have more experience in this area than me, but from the enquiries we’ve had from prospective owners, they are set on getting a Retriever. If they hadn’t approached us, then they would have gone to an alternative breeder rather than a rescue centre.

Perhaps, but some people start out with "i want a golden retriever" and end up with something else. Either another pure breed, or some random mutt that they took a fancy to. Sure, some people might sit and wait until there is a golden retriever available within 10 miles of their house... but just like searching for cars on auto trader some people will compromise on colour/mileage/model etc if they can't immediately get what they want, which makes them look into alternatives. The marketplace can't just keep absorbing litter after litter with no consequences.

badgerade said:

On the rescue dog subject. As harsh as it may sound, not everyone wants one. One example, my wife is a childminder. It’s hard enough convincing parents that the 2 retrievers we’ve had since they were pups and are fully socialised are not going to eat their child. If we had rescue dogs I’m pretty sure it would not work. (And before anyone says it – the dogs are kept separate from the childminding kids, and the pups will have carefully monitored contact when they are old enough). As I mentioned somewhere up there ^ in my other waffle, the people who are interested in one of our puppies

I completely accept that dogs of unknown history are not suitable to be kept around kids. But if you get a mutt that came from a female dog that had been dumped pregnant, then behaviour wise there would really be no difference between that and either of your 2 dogs you have currently. You're going to get it 8-12 weeks old and any defects in behaviour or training would be down to you.

badgerade said:

Agree on the misconceptions. The fact that there are so many dogs in rescue suggests that there is an issue with how easy it is to get a dog in the first place?

Far too many people go into dog ownership without fully understanding what they're getting involved with, and it seems there is very little in place to stop this happening. We have a local garden centre near us that sells puppies as if they are hamsters.. People walk in, see them, buy them. I'd hazard a guess that a large percentage of them end up in a rescue centre (And I would doubt that the mother/pups are treated brilliantly either).

Its definitely too easy to get dogs from some avenues. Like you say the places you can turn up with £150 in cash and buy a puppy, no questions and no interest in the welfare of it. Combine this with it being too hard to get dogs from rescue places at times (try telling one you actually have a job and see what they say), its just not a good situation.

I didn't really know wtf i was doing when i got my first dog. I seen some advert online offering puppies, called the bloke up and he came and met me. I had a look at the dog, it had 4 legs 2 eyes and a tail so that was about the extent of my ability to check it out at that point i handed him £100 or whatever it was and off he went. It worked out fine, but i wonder how many of the other ones from that litter sold with such a lack of care , ended up dumped or ill treated or whatever.

[badgerade]

Just to keep this updated.. 9 puppies born on Saturday between around 6pm and er sometime later.. since the first pup was delivered I have pretty much lost track of what time/day it is. Holly is doing well, lots of feeding and the pups are growing rapidly. Quick pic from yesterday:



I've had the first 4 days of the week off to help but will be back in the office tomorrow for a rest!!

[CubanPete]

Congratulations.

Grew up with Retrievers as pets, and will be getting one once the GF and I move from two properties into one..

[riosyd]

They're just so sweet

[SPR2]

Well done to Holly. Lovely to see them all at the "milk bar".
Think I can remember making lots of egg custards for my dog after she had her pups.

[KFC]

badgerade said:

I've had the first 4 days of the week off to help but will be back in the office tomorrow for a rest!!

Ah cool, you must have changed to night shift then

Seriously, the worst bit is when they all wriggle out of their nest like snakes at 4am. They'll all head in opposite directions, then get lost. Then all start crying until someone (thats you btw) gets out of your warm bed, locates them all and returns them to where they came from.

Don't worry though, that only happens about 10 times a night

edit - just read that back and it perhaps comes across as a bit mean / rude, given my earlier post in the thread. Thats not my intention at all, at this point I have nothing but well wishes for the OP, just trying to inject a dose of reality. Anyway its nearly 2am you can update us in the next 30mins when you're lying awake and see this

Edited by KFC on Friday 24th April 01:37

[bexVN]

Aww congrats to Holly, glad it all went well, hope it continues to go smoothly, will be awaiting more pics

[badgerade]

Thanks all

@KFC - no worries, it didn't come across that way. TBH I'm so tired that you could be as rude as you like and I'd not even notice

We've got a camping matress setup on the other side of the room to the whelping box so it's not too far to walk when we have to get up.

We're on day 6 now and it is starting to feel a bit easier.. Not sure if thats because I'm now used to the sleep deprivation or if it is actually getting easier!

More pics will be on the way

[GokTweed]

Statistically speaking you're more likely to get bitten from a golden retriever than any other dog. Not because they're nasty (we all know the majority aren't) but because they are one of, if not the, most common type of dog in the UK. So even if only 1% go nasty it accounts to a fair few dogs.

To take some peoples opinions to an extreme, who frown upon breeding puppies...are your children adopted from foster homes? or do you plan on adopting one along with your own kids? Plenty of them wanting homes.

Not picking a side here I can see why the OP wanted to breed their own but also the arguments for not breeding and getting one from a rescue home (or shall we say orphanage?).

Personally I think I'm going to get a well bred black lab from a breeder who knows their stuff, to have from a pup and truly call my own. But also get a rescue dog as a companion and to try to give it a better life. Should I take two from the rescue centre and not buy any puppies because there are too many? maybe, but I want one that's totally my own from start to finish, which in my mind is the only advantage a breeder has to offer.

For a PH level analogy It's a brand new car as opposed to a second hand one. Anything that happens to the new one is all my doing. I can shape how it looks and behaves. With a second hand one, it'll be cheaper but I'll also have to fix what the previous owner broke before I can put my mark on it. Needless to say both can provide endless fun and enjoyment!

I wish the OP luck with the new pups, and that the mother recovers well. Unfortunately I've already seen too many 'breeders' come to collect after a caesarean and only seem bothered about how many pups they got out, not whether the bh survived. I hate that type of breeder.

[moorx]

GokTweed said:

To take some peoples opinions to an extreme, who frown upon breeding puppies...are your children adopted from foster homes? or do you plan on adopting one along with your own kids? Plenty of them wanting homes.

You're assuming that I have children (I don't). Because I was unable to have children myself, adoption was actually something I considered.

GokTweed said:

For a PH level analogy It's a brand new car as opposed to a second hand one. Anything that happens to the new one is all my doing. I can shape how it looks and behaves. With a second hand one, it'll be cheaper but I'll also have to fix what the previous owner broke before I can put my mark on it. Needless to say both can provide endless fun and enjoyment!

I wouldn't have a new car either - mine have all been second hand, as have my houses, so I obviously don't mind other people's hand-me-downs

[Shaw Tarse]

So you can't be happy for those who buy the dog they want?

[moorx]

Shaw Tarse said:

So you can't be happy for those who buy the dog they want?

Everyone has their own opinion, and the right to make their own choices. I (as a person who disagrees with breeding from pets) have been asked to justify my position and have done so.

Personally, I agree with the phrase 'Why breed and buy while others die' when it comes to pets. Others are entitled to do as they see fit, but don't try to tell me that you can't get puppies, or almost any breed of dog in rescue if you are prepared to try hard enough.

[230TE]

There seems to be a kind of groupthink consensus developing in society that breeding dogs is morally wrong and that we should all adopt rescue dogs instead. I'm struggling with this myself. There are around 10 million dogs in the UK and I would bet that the vast majority are well cared for in good homes. Allowing for natural mortality, accidents etc that implies a requirement of close to 1 million puppies a year to maintain the population. Shut down the dog breeders and an awful lot of people who want a dog will be unable to have one. The animal rights nutjobs might think that a good thing: I don't.

[KFC]

230TE said:

There seems to be a kind of groupthink consensus developing in society that breeding dogs is morally wrong and that we should all adopt rescue dogs instead. I'm struggling with this myself. There are around 10 million dogs in the UK and I would bet that the vast majority are well cared for in good homes. Allowing for natural mortality, accidents etc that implies a requirement of close to 1 million puppies a year to maintain the population. Shut down the dog breeders and an awful lot of people who want a dog will be unable to have one. The animal rights nutjobs might think that a good thing: I don't.

Sorry but you're completely clueless on this one!!

Breeding just for the sake of it is a very bad thing overall. Fair enough we need 'high end' breeders but stuff like the OP is doing is horrifically selfish. Nobody is suggesting closing down breeders altogether. But it makes far more sense (from both a moral and financial aspect) to use up all the 'easy' stock from rescues etc before we start the silly breeding for the sake of it with random pet dogs.

[bexVN]

I think you are wrong to call them completely clueless ^^. They're expressing a thought and don't deserve the insult tbh. I see what they are trying to say but no I don't agree with it.

[230TE]

Actually there are people who are suggesting closing down breeders altogether. The entire rescue movement can only supply a fraction of the demand for dogs in this country. If you think people should not be allowed to keep dogs, just come out and say it. I'm not against rescue dogs: I have had four ex-racing greyhounds and two Hamilton Hounds from a breeder whose home was repossessed. But I have absolutely no problem with someone who has a good quality b*tch with good confirmation and no health issues breeding a litter. Rearing puppies is a wonderful thing (although exhausting and sleep-destroying). One of my great regrets in life is that my first dog, Cleo (working-bred black lab) turned out infertile. Otherwise I would probably still have one of her descendents today.