Followed and screamed at by a Fox!

[ali_kat]

toohangry said:

I completely disagree and find that argument ludicrous I'm afraid. I own the land, not the fox and despite being an animal lover, I take a realistic view on vermin and don't consider their ancestral 'rights'!

However, I can't see us agreeing somehow so will leave it there.

How can you be an animal lover with an attitude like that? Just because it doesn't suit you to have it there, doesn't mean it doesn't have a perfecly natural right to be there!

Just to educate you.

Foxes are not, and never have been, categorised as such by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA).

In fact, Scientific research has shown the fox's reputation as an agricultural pest to be undeserved; they very rarely kill lambs, despite many a tale to the contrary. They will occasionally take hens or domestic ducks from a farmyard, but such losses can be largely avoided by securing the birds safely at night.

In urban areas foxes pose few problems other than being an occasional nuisance; in fact it could be argued that they perform a useful scavenging role by clearing up discarded take-aways at night, as well as keeping mice and rat numbers under control.

As with pet dogs, foxes can carry Toxocara canis, parastic roundworm which can be passed to humans. However infection is extremely rare and only affects around two people per million in the UK each year. All known infections have been transmitted from dogs, and in fact there is no recorded instance of foxes spreading any disease to humans, so basic hygiene precautions should be followed.

Rabies is currently unknown in British foxes (indeed the UK at all).

I'd be very careful with your threats towards them...

•Killing and controlling foxes is restricted under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981
•There is no poisonous substance authorised for use on foxes.
•The Wild Mammals (Protection) Act 1996 makes it an offence to intentionally inflict unnecessary suffering on any wild mammal

[krusty]

toohangry said:

Stood up to the tree huggers and was honest

For the Record Mr. Toohangry I'd just like to say I agree with you and I'm sure there are many more out there that do as well but do not comment because they just cannot be bothered with the fallout....

As for Urban Foxes cleaning up discarded take-away boxes being a service to society..... Thanks, that will keep me laughing for days...

[bexVN]

Foxes aren't vermin though so shouldn't be treated as such. Is there no way you can fox proof your garden?

[ali_kat]

krusty said:

toohangry said:

Stood up to the tree huggers and was honest

For the Record Mr. Toohangry I'd just like to say I agree with you and I'm sure there are many more out there that do as well but do not comment because they just cannot be bothered with the fallout....

As for Urban Foxes cleaning up discarded take-away boxes being a service to society..... Thanks, that will keep me laughing for days...

Your edit of his post is wrong

toohangry actually said said:

making it an unhygienic place for me, my family and my pets. Why should it be allowed to stay?

As I've stated in my post above, it is proven that Dogs are more unhygenic to have in your garden than foxes.

toohangry was also inaccurate when he said said:

I take a realistic view on vermin

Foxes are not, and never have been, categorised as such by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA).

krusty said:

As for Urban Foxes cleaning up discarded take-away boxes being a service to society..... Thanks, that will keep me laughing for days...

You do realise that there would be a LOT more mice & rats in Cities without them clearing up the discarded take-aways? You understand that mice and rats are their normal food?

No, of course you don't. You just see the Daily Mail headlines

I'm far from a tree hugger, I'm an animal lover that believes that they (as does all wild life) have right to live in their natural habitat as we do. That we destroy their habitat for our needs & they adapt to live in ours doesn't make it right or them vermin.

[toohangry]

bexVN said:

Foxes aren't vermin though so shouldn't be treated as such. Is there no way you can fox proof your garden?

I'm not sure how you could really, it's already dog proof but that doesn't stop them.

I won't be drawn back into an argument with the other poster who's quoting loads of things (some quite misleading) - suffice it to say I have two young children, a puppy and some chickens and they are my priority.

[bexVN]

toohangry said:

bexVN said:

Foxes aren't vermin though so shouldn't be treated as such. Is there no way you can fox proof your garden?

I'm not sure how you could really, it's already dog proof but that doesn't stop them.

I won't be drawn back into an argument with the other poster who's quoting loads of things (some quite misleading) - suffice it to say I have two young children, a puppy and some chickens and they are my priority.

Gravel boards in soil under fencing can help, guess it depends on whether your garden is bordered by fencing or hedges.

Ali is passionate and I do believe foxes get a raw deal, she just expresses it more than I can .

[ali_kat]

toohangry said:

I'm not sure how you could really, it's already dog proof but that doesn't stop them.

I won't be drawn back into an argument with the other poster who's quoting loads of things - suffice it to say I have two young children, a puppy and some chickens and they are my priority.

You mean the one that's proved you wrong & could help advise you on that?



As I've said in my detailed post above, there are no cases of Foxes passing disease to humans.

Your kids are safe Stop panicking, you sound like a Daily Mail reader and from other posts of yours I've seen, I doubt very much that you are

Now for the help (I am nice you see )

You have a few options, befriend it, protect the chickens from all predators (it’s not just foxes!) and get rid.

If you feed the Fox some dog wormer every month & leave a bowl of dog food out for it daily, your Dog is less likely to pick anything up from it, and because you are feeding it, and it knows you are a regular source of food, your chickens will be safer as well *

There are fox proof runs out there, but they are expensive! You can however just put a simple electric fence for livestock up around them (that won't hurt you, the kids or the dog!). A fox can bite through chicken wire and netting, weldmesh of 19g or stronger (the lower the number the stronger it is) is best. Spray off all grass and other vegetation for about 6" from the fence line. Any grass that touches the electric fence will short it out. Staple outriggers to the posts supporting the chicken wire and then attach the electric fence cord to them. Do the same to the top of the fence if the run is not fully enclosed.

They can dig their way in (Stoats & Weasels absolutely will & can wreak more havoc than a Fox!), so bury some chicken wire below the surface so that there is some on the inside and most on the outside. Securely attach the wall fencing to the buried wire. Keep the area around the electric fence totally clear of vegetation so it never shorts.

Once a week, pee into a bottle (must be yours as a male), then sprinkle that around the whole garden permiter, just like you were marking territory (you may need a large bottle ), they don't like it & will get the message & go away. Dog pee should do this, but rarely does nowadays. Man pee however, does


*Please note I said safer, not safe... A hungry fox is a desperate one.

Edited by ali_kat on Wednesday 1st July 16:55

[Mr GrimNasty]

Some misleading info posted, obviously from animal rights biased sources!

Foxes certainly do transfer a significant amount of disease to humans and pets. As there is no easy way to prove the source, you can get away with the 'no known cases' line.

Foxes are not protected under WCA 1981, some methods of killing are controlled - that is all.

Rabies does crop up from time to time (bats usually), and if there were an outbreak urban foxes would have to be eliminated as a matter of urgency.

Although not officially classified as vermin, foxes are an accepted pest, and they do cause significant problems and economic loss to farmers, and urban conflict problems are becoming more and more commonplace.

Far from driving foxes from their natural habitat, towns allow foxes to grow far bigger and exist in far denser numbers than they ever would in the countryside, so reducing urban numbers is doing no harm whatsoever, but it is dealing with what is an increasing nuisance/pest.

[ali_kat]

If you consider DEFRA, NHS & Gov.UK to be animal rights

http://www.colchester.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=...

The source of diseases spread is lack of the human's hygiene, not the animal they have been in contact with

Oh, and learn to read, I said...

Killing and controlling foxes is restricted under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, not that they were protected by it


Edited to provide an example of my sources

Edited by ali_kat on Wednesday 1st July 17:12

[toohangry]

I've said twice I'm not going to enter into this with you, that does NOT mean you're right! I really sense you fancy an argument about this and won't tolerate other's views.


However, thanks for the 'advice' but I'm not some wet behind the ears 17 year old who's just seen his first fox thanks. I know what they can and can't do and know that there's only one way to stop them ruining a garden and threatening poultry.

You implied that I was worried about my children with the fox. I don't know where that was from - what I don't like is their grass and toys being ruined and shat upon on a daily basis.

I will say though for someone keen to quote .gov phrases, you seem to have neglected the fairly strong views they have on feeding foxes! In fact you're actually recommending it.

Anyway, for the 3rd time - we won't see eye to eye on this so there's little point continuing. I don't currently have a shotgun so it's moot (for now).

[krusty]

ali_kat said:

You do realise that there would be a LOT more mice & rats in Cities without them clearing up the discarded take-aways? You understand that mice and rats are their normal food?

Miss Kat.... I would say the problem starts with the people discarding the food and Mr. Fox has seen an opportunity for an easy life but I can't really comment about cities as I live in the country. I love my animals and have a menagerie of dogs, cats, chickens, pigs and sheep... Also rats, pigeons, magpies, foxes, badgers and anything else that fancies them or their food.
You can't really protect anything 100% and take my word for it as I've tried most things. I've lost chicken to Mr. Fox in the last week during the day. Never lost anything at night has they're generally away but I have seen neighbours lambs with chunks taken out of them. I wouldn't mind so much if they took the birds but it's just sport to them. They may take one, kill 6 and I don't see the point in that.
Pigeons get the idea. Take a couple of them out with a .22 and they will stay away, rats come and go with the seasons but Mr. Fox is sly....
I admire your willingness to put your head up and say they're lovely and misunderstood. Good luck, I hope you don't get bitten. I respect your opinion but please don't expect me to agree with you.
By the way I don't read the Daily Mail.

[ali_kat]

toohangry said:

I've said twice I'm not going to enter into this with you, that does NOT mean you're right! I really sense you fancy an argument about this and won't tolerate other's views.


However, thanks for the 'advice' but I'm not some wet behind the ears 17 year old who's just seen his first fox thanks. I know what they can and can't do and know that there's only one way to stop them ruining a garden and threatening poultry.

You implied that I was worried about my children with the fox. I don't know where that was from - what I don't like is their grass and toys being ruined and shat upon on a daily basis.

I will say though for someone keen to quote .gov phrases, you seem to have neglected the fairly strong views they have on feeding foxes! In fact you're actually recommending it.

Anyway, for the 3rd time - we won't see eye to eye on this so there's little point continuing. I don't currently have a shotgun so it's moot (for now).

I'm not the one that isn't tolerant of others views.

I realise they are a nuisance, I have given you advise on how to deal with this, you have thrown it back in my face, proving what kind of person you actually are...

toohangry said:

making it an unhygienic place for me, my family and my pets.

It's not the fox that is unhygenic, teach your kids & family to wash their hands & your dog not to eat st

[ali_kat]

krusty said:

Miss Kat.... I would say the problem starts with the people discarding the food and Mr. Fox has seen an opportunity for an easy life but I can't really comment about cities as I live in the country. I love my animals and have a menagerie of dogs, cats, chickens, pigs and sheep... Also rats, pigeons, magpies, foxes, badgers and anything else that fancies them or their food.

Mr Krusty

I agree & hear you I know little about the Urban Fox as well, which is why I relied on the Gov & DEFRA information. Mr Ungrateful doesn’t seem to realise I was suggesting to feed the Rural fox, not an Urban one, as a way to help him

krusty said:

You can't really protect anything 100% and take my word for it as I've tried most things. I've lost chicken to Mr. Fox in the last week during the day. Never lost anything at night has they're generally away but I have seen neighbours lambs with chunks taken out of them. I wouldn't mind so much if they took the birds but it's just sport to them. They may take one, kill 6 and I don't see the point in that.

No, you can’t, but maybe my post to the argumentative “I’m leaving” wretch above, could be helpful as I really spent a lot of time trying to help give him advice on how to protect your chickens from Mr Fox, as well as Weasels & Stoats. Foxes like a full larder (like us as I said before). They kill to fill that larder, planning to come back as they can only carry 1 at a time, then something will stop them from getting back to rest of the chickens. Weasels & Stoats will kill for sport (bit like humans ).

krusty said:

Pigeons get the idea. Take a couple of them out with a .22 and they will stay away, rats come and go with the seasons but Mr. Fox is sly....

Male human piss & electric fencing is the ultimate deterrent. You’ll have to bear in mind that I encourage them to me rather than deter, but I am reliably informed by my chicken & pheasant rearing friends that that is the way to go.

krusty said:

I admire your willingness to put your head up and say they're lovely and misunderstood. Good luck, I hope you don't get bitten. I respect your opinion but please don't expect me to agree with you.

Thank you – I don’t expect anyone to agree with me, just to live & let live.

To understand and accept that if you chose to live in the country & raise chickens/have rabbits/guinea pigs in runs outside you are offering the local wildlife the opportunity for a potentially easy dinner (not just Mr Fox, there are a LOT of predators).

Killing what is a pain in your arse is not the way forward.

krusty said:

By the way I don't read the Daily Mail.

Phew You did have me worried for a moment

[ali_kat]

bexVN said:

Ali is passionate and I do believe foxes get a raw deal, she just expresses it more than I can .

You think this is passionate

You should see the FB post where a Green friend (yeah, I know!) tried to say I supported Fox Hunting because I'd voted Conservative

I tore him a new one

I then tore that a new one for assuming I had voted Tory!

[toohangry]

ali_kat said:

Mr Ungrateful doesn’t seem to realise I was suggesting to feed the Rural fox, not an Urban one, as a way to help him


No, you can’t, but maybe my post to the argumentative “I’m leaving” wretch above, could be helpful as I really spent a lot of time trying to help give him advice on how to protect your chickens from Mr Fox, as well as Weasels & Stoats. Foxes like a full larder (like us as I said before). They kill to fill that larder, planning to come back as they can only carry 1 at a time, then something will stop them from getting back to rest of the chickens. Weasels & Stoats will kill for sport (bit like humans ).

You gave advice without even being asked for it so don't be surprised when it's ignored. It's mildly patronising that you assumed that, even as a chicken owner, I didn't go to some lengths to try and find a way to cure the problem! My first thought wasn't 'gun' and I've tried everything you mentioned and plenty more to try and stop these pests.

So it's not Mr Ungrateful, it's Mr You're Not Telling me Anything New And I Can Google Too And Have Many Times thanks.

[The Moose]

toohangry said:

I don't currently have a shotgun so it's moot (for now).

I'll lend you mine if you like

I am an animal lover but I still shoot stuff. Why is it that some people view that as contradictory?!

[ali_kat]

Your said it was dog proof and that you weren't sure how it could be improved. I made suggestions on how it could be, yes, you didn't ask, but you said you didn't know.

I hadn't assumed you hadn't tried stuff, I was just trying to help, contacting friends that raise chickens & pheasants (including the Gamekeeper at my old house) without incident for advice. I gave you solutions that work for them - damn you must have some fking clever Foxes!

I'm willing to bet that you haven't put the electric fencing up & used your own pee

Having been argumentative towards me all day, I'd still tried to help you. Yet you threw my act of trying to be helpful back at me. Bex gave advice too, yet you didn't throw it back at her, that shows just exactly what kind of person you are

I'm done dealing with aholes today

[ali_kat]

The Moose said:

Why is it that some people view that as contradictory?!

I've shot & killed animals, but only ever for food.

Shooting for sport, for pleasure, or just to get rid of a pain in the arse, is wrong.

[toohangry]

ali_kat said:

Your said it was dog proof and that you weren't sure how it could be improved. I made suggestions on how it could be, yes, you didn't ask, but you said you didn't know.

I hadn't assumed you hadn't tried stuff, I was just trying to help, contacting friends that raise chickens & pheasants (including the Gamekeeper at my old house) without incident for advice. I gave you solutions that work for them - damn you must have some fking clever Foxes!

I'm willing to bet that you haven't put the electric fencing up & used your own pee

Having been argumentative towards me all day, I'd still tried to help you. Yet you threw my act of trying to be helpful back at me. Bex gave advice too, yet you didn't throw it back at her, that shows just exactly what kind of person you are

I'm done dealing with aholes today

Firstly I apologise as I seem to have upset you. I'm not really sure how though, I've just not taken 'your' advice on board as it's stuff that I, and anyone who has 2 minutes and google, already knew - if that upsets you then I'm sorry but I don't think it's really my fault.

You'll find that anyone who keeps poultry and/or has a fox problem will know all the ways of trying to stop a fox. I say this as a man who used to piss around the boundaries of an evening! (Doesn't work btw) It certainly doesn't warrant calling me an ahole over.

ali_kat said:

Having been argumentative towards me all day, I'd still tried to help you.

Actually the opposite is true. Three times I said I didn't want to discuss it any further as I could tell we wouldn't agree, I also said I'd picked the wrong thread to mention it on, and yet you continued to push and push. That's why I said you appeared to actually want an argument.

Edited by toohangry on Thursday 2nd July 08:33

[sumo69]

Back on topic.

We had our evening walk earlier last night - only saw her for a minute halfway around the walk as she seemed to be focused on more important matters (going through a food bag left out judging by the mess!)

Will update again if anything more significant tonight.

David