Followed and screamed at by a Fox!

Followed and screamed at by a Fox!

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sumo69

Original Poster:

2,164 posts

219 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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I was walking the Suki and Finn late last night (on-lead) and had the peace interrupted by a piercing scream from the local Vixen who was sitting in the road about 20 yards away.

Dogs went berserk of course so once I had calmed then to some extent I walked on only to find the fox following us and getting closer - I stopped and she sat and let off another scream which set the dogs off once more!! I decided a gentle jog home may now be best only to find her following yet again - she was at the end of my front garden path as I shut the front door.

She sat there and let off another 2 screams before going on her way - never seen her do anything like this before as she normally scarpers at the sight of a sight hound. I wonder if she was either protecting some cubs that we may have been quite close to (though the 2 dogs didn't show any sign of picking up a scent or noise) or whether she was looking for a mate and my Finn met her selection criteria!!

Any thoughts?

bexVN

14,682 posts

210 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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Protecting cubs I'd say, doing a very good job aswell it would seem!

ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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It is unusual, and it's not mating season. What sort of area are you in? Middle of city or more outskirts of the countryside? That will affect the attitude of the fox.

The info below is for Foxes found in the Countryside, as that's my experience.

How 'well' do you usually get on with her, ie how used to you is she, she sees you all often even though she runs?

I think you'd have noticed & said, but... If she's got to know you she may trust you enough to ask for help - Could she have been hurt?

What sort of 'scream' was it? The mating one is blood curdling like a woman screaming, their normal bark is similar to a dog.

If it were younger (as it will be about 3months now), I'd say it was a cub wanting to play; its the time of year that this is all they do. Mum is still hunting for them, she'll start to teach them towards end July.

That said, a cub that has been left to go it alone from an earlier age will try to follow people/other animals. ("Are you my mummy")

You get used to their sounds and if watching them at the same time, you get to recognise what the different sounds mean. They are very dog like in their greetings.

Foxes honestly do try to avoid human/canine/feline contact, but a vixen will protect her cubs and a fox cornered being chased by a dog will defend itself - but my Vet said he had never heard of/treated an unprovoked attack.

Foxes aren't a threat to most cats and are little larger than your average moggy - so aren't really any threat to larger dogs. An adult fox only weighs between 8-15 lbs, bear in mind that about 1/3 of a fox's length is its tail... they aren't exactly equipped to take on bigger dogs.

Can you tell I love foxes

sumo69

Original Poster:

2,164 posts

219 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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ali_kat said:
It is unusual, and it's not mating season. What sort of area are you in? Middle of city or more outskirts of the countryside? That will affect the attitude of the fox.

How 'well' do you usually get on with her, ie how used to you is she, she sees you all often even though she runs?

I think you'd have noticed & said, but... If she's got to know you she may trust you enough to ask for help - Could she have been hurt?

What sort of 'scream' was it? The mating one is blood curdling like a woman screaming, their normal bark is similar to a dog.

If it were younger (as it will be about 3months now), I'd say it was a cub wanting to play; its the time of year that this is all they do. Mum is still hunting for them, she'll start to teach them towards end July.

That said, a cub that has been left to go it alone from an earlier age will try to follow people/other animals. ("Are you my mummy")

You get used to their sounds and if watching them at the same time, you get to recognise what the different sounds mean. They are very dog like in their greetings.

Foxes honestly do try to avoid human/canine/feline contact, but a vixen will protect her cubs and a fox cornered being chased by a dog will defend itself - but my Vet said he had never heard of/treated an unprovoked attack.

Foxes aren't a threat to most cats and are little larger than your average moggy - so aren't really any threat to larger dogs. An adult fox only weighs between 8-15 lbs, bear in mind that about 1/3 of a fox's length is its tail... they aren't exactly equipped to take on bigger dogs.

Can you tell I love foxes
Interesting - I am in semi-rural with a housing estate, a couple of fields and a town.

I have seen her a few times - last week was the previous occassion and she hid under a car whilst we walked past so no boldness then.

I wondered if she was either injured or hungry but seemed to be moving fine and no obvious . I wouldn't feed them as I don't want them coming to the house with my 5 year old twins in the garden!!

It was the blood curdling "Vixen's scream" - I jumped a mile when she first let one go!

David

ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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She'll not hurt the kids, unless they are treatening the cubs. City foxes are bolder with humnas & food gathering; but in that kind of area, as you have seen, they are very timid (until they get to know you are friendly). But no, this time of year I'd not feed them.

Snowy Winter, yes. Leave dry dog food out for them. Personally, if she's local & comes to you regularly, I'd throw her Flora & Marmite sandwiches on cheap bread (its a good source of VitB, which is good for mange & add some generic shop bought small dog wormer to) once a month or so, but that's more to help your dogs/kids play in the garden wink But, it will also mean she'll learn to know you are 'friendly' should she ever need help. 'My' fox came to my garden regularly as a refuge when she lost 1/2 her tail. I couldn't catch her (didn't try) but I spoke to my Vet & got antibiotics into her.

Sounds like it was the elongated, monosyllabic cry of a vixen warning cubs of danger, strange that she followed you to do it though.

Edited by ali_kat on Tuesday 30th June 14:09

lord trumpton

7,321 posts

125 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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I often get woken by the foxes.

We have a woodland literally opposite our house and they can be right noisy feckers! They can make some really strange 'like nothing else' type sounds - especially when mating.

sumo69

Original Poster:

2,164 posts

219 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Just got back from another episode filled walk!

Within 10 yards of leaving the house, I hear "the scream", albeit sounds a couple of hundred yards away on the fields so I decide to walk my evening loop in reverse to avoid her - fat chance!

Before I am out of my road, there she is 50 yards away watching, I walk on and so does she getting a little closer by the time I stop and turn - even the 2 dogs appear somewhat perplexed by her boldness as they are relatively calm despite seeing her. No screaming at all - she just follows keeping a 20-30 yard distance. My route is nearly a mile in a square and she followed the whole way, quiet but not afraid to be seen sitting and watching.

There is a small enclosed area near the open field where the dogs can stretch their legs and do their "business" so I let them off and they both run to the far side with tails wagging - there she is, sitting around 10 yards away from the fence - no screaming, just with an interested look! I did have chance to see her condition and there is nothing obviously wrong. As this was very close to where she was screaming last night, I am not convinced she is protecting cubs as she readily abandoned them to follow us on a mile's walk and showed no stress at all.

Very odd!!

ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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What size is she? I'm wondering if she's a cub and orphaned?

bexVN

14,682 posts

210 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Does sound less likely now, maybe she is a bit confused!

sumo69

Original Poster:

2,164 posts

219 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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ali_kat said:
What size is she? I'm wondering if she's a cub and orphaned?
Ignoring the tail, size of a King Charles Cavalier. Hard to guess weight, but perhaps 7-8 kg?

I wonder whether to take some food out tonight and throw it to her and see what happens with it - what would you recommend?

D

Mexican cuties

686 posts

121 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Can you get a picture ?

Alapeno

1,391 posts

146 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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I was wondering the same as I saw a similar thing the other night. Our house (Manchester suburbs) backs onto a bit of waste ground and tram lines and a fox came out of there, ran up and down the street screaming for about half an hour.

It's become a bit bold lately, sitting on the neighbours garden during the day and has had one or two stand-offs with our cat. From what i understand though, they'd rather not have a go at a young healthy cat and neither seemed that bothered.


ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
sumo69 said:
Ignoring the tail, size of a King Charles Cavalier. Hard to guess weight, but perhaps 7-8 kg?

I wonder whether to take some food out tonight and throw it to her and see what happens with it - what would you recommend?

D
That does sound June/July cub sized to me...

At that age, she could be orphaned, but she could also just be curious about the Salukis smile

Feeding her? At this age she should be learning to hunt & be self sufficient... lets see what Bex says?

I think in your shoes I'd keep an eye out & on her, judging it on her appearance. I don't think you want a pet fox? (although they can be tamed & house trained smile )

I would be feeding her & tempting her back to mine but I'm a softy & had a garden big enough to sustain her when I was rural (city central now - how I miss my foxes!!).

sumo69

Original Poster:

2,164 posts

219 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
Mexican cuties said:
Can you get a picture ?
Not easy in the pitch black whilst holding 2 dogs - even with a flash she would have to be nearer than I would be comfortable with!

sumo69

Original Poster:

2,164 posts

219 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
ali_kat said:
That does sound June/July cub sized to me...

At that age, she could be orphaned, but she could also just be curious about the Salukis smile

Feeding her? At this age she should be learning to hunt & be self sufficient... lets see what Bex says?

I think in your shoes I'd keep an eye out & on her, judging it on her appearance. I don't think you want a pet fox? (although they can be tamed & house trained smile )

I would be feeding her & tempting her back to mine but I'm a softy & had a garden big enough to sustain her when I was rural (city central now - how I miss my foxes!!).
Pet fox - nope! Cannot see the Mrs agreeing to that!!

Also, I know what the sh*t smells like after the dogs roll in it!! Why do they do that??

Lets see what Bex says...

ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
Alapeno said:
I was wondering the same as I saw a similar thing the other night. Our house (Manchester suburbs) backs onto a bit of waste ground and tram lines and a fox came out of there, ran up and down the street screaming for about half an hour.

It's become a bit bold lately, sitting on the neighbours garden during the day and has had one or two stand-offs with our cat. From what i understand though, they'd rather not have a go at a young healthy cat and neither seemed that bothered.

Looking at the size & tail, that's a Vixen about 1/2 years old (I need head full on to tell the sex properly - male is wider).

Being an Urban fox, I'm not so well clued up (not seen one in the 2 years I've been in Northampton! weeping)

But Urban foxes are a lot bolder than their Rural cousins, even venturing into houses for food.

It will have a stand off with the cat, as both will consider your garden their territory. They should live & let live though.

It shouldn't bother your cat (or kids despite the Press) unless starving. If they look hungry, leave (dry) Dog food out & as I suggested to the Op, the occassional Marmite sandwich with dog wormer.

If they look mangy, the NFWS will send you mange treatment for free.

ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
sumo69 said:
Pet fox - nope! Cannot see the Mrs agreeing to that!!

Also, I know what the sh*t smells like after the dogs roll in it!! Why do they do that??

Lets see what Bex says...
Tell her it's a dog "Boom Boom". But I was joking, that is not the preferred result here.

There's a video somewhere of a pet fox, I'll find it if I can smile

Their st stinks due to what they eat... Feed it dog food & it will smell like dog st wink but as Dogs roll in that too I have no theory...

bexVN

14,682 posts

210 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Ermm, thanks for your confidence in me but judging by my first answer I don't think I am the best to advise on the fox. Ali is far more knowledgeable!

All I can say is if the fox is in good bodily condition, is in an area where there will be plenty of mice/ shrews etc for it to feed on then I would imagine it is fending for itself ok, it sounds alert etc when you see it. Start feeding it and it may become more reliant on that food source and become a vicious circle. Obviously if it is looking scrawny etc it may need some help but then you'd be better to seek help from a wildlife sanctuary. (I don't think this is needed at least not for now)

I think it is their scent glands that are more pungent rather than the faeces. They will release scent as they defaecate. (Dogs do this aswell but not as effectively and not as pungent, well not the same kind of pungence anyway!!)


Edited by bexVN on Wednesday 1st July 10:38

ali_kat

31,988 posts

220 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
quotequote all
thumbup That was my gut feel, but I'm no expert just a bit of a nerdsmile

Not everyone is as nutty as me laugh

And I'd hate for her to become trusting of humans, as they can be very cruel to foxes frown They forget that we encroach on their territory, rather than them moving into ours! And that it is their natual instinct to hoard food (they like a well stocked cupboard, just like we do!)

'Mine' knew they could trust me, and the Gardners of the Estate. But if anyone else approached they scarpered to the undergrowth, returning when they knew I was there, or the others had gone.

Edited by ali_kat on Wednesday 1st July 10:54

bexVN

14,682 posts

210 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Oh and sorry for referring to the fox as an it. I wasn't sure if it'd been established if it were a male or female. I'm assuming the male fox does not make these sounds then?