Open Minded Discussion - Heath care costs
Discussion
Gargamel said:
No she absolutely is insured, I am waiting to hear back from the insurance co as to whether the claim is allowable.
Without the scan the Vet isn't willing to comment on whether she is a suitable candidate for the surgery, but it is both front elbows and given it is arthritis it is likely to be in other joints sooner or later too.
So it is hard to say. Hence the question. I have previously made bold statements about hugely expensive surgery for pets and how I don't think it is morally justifable. However ..... am I about to change my mind ?
I guess in the end the real question is - post op - will she be back and close to good as ever, or is it a marginal or temporary gain.
She needs rest right now, back at the vet in two weeks once the inflammation is a bit more under control.
Ah, that game - good luck!Without the scan the Vet isn't willing to comment on whether she is a suitable candidate for the surgery, but it is both front elbows and given it is arthritis it is likely to be in other joints sooner or later too.
So it is hard to say. Hence the question. I have previously made bold statements about hugely expensive surgery for pets and how I don't think it is morally justifable. However ..... am I about to change my mind ?
I guess in the end the real question is - post op - will she be back and close to good as ever, or is it a marginal or temporary gain.
She needs rest right now, back at the vet in two weeks once the inflammation is a bit more under control.
I hope you are, its all good & well having morals until they affect you, if you are big enough to overcome them you'll be an even better person IYKWIM
Even if it gives her another 3/5 years it's worth it, she's too young
It is very interesting to me - these options just didn't exist for pet care when I was growing up - really only about 20/25 years back
I am entirely comparing human healthcare to animal here but...the main moral (?) issue in this thread for me is the £4500 for a scan. That is f**king outrageous, and has only happened because, as I see it, we went from 'very average levels of pet mending >> lots of insurance >> hugely expensive pet treatments. (which nearly no-one pays themselves if you see what I mean)
The charges you see for what is, at the end of the day, entirely comparable technology is shocking - no wonder you're having to think carefully - and i have seen this for numerous things where the cost to a human would be a fraction.
Its entirely possible I'm missing something - maybe these things aren't comparable....but seeing as your choice is an X-ray and/or MRI scan.....there isn't a magic 'OA in dogs' scan....then i think this is a pretty appalling quote.
my own view just echoes the posters that say its about the animals long term welfare rather than cost. I wouldnt hesitate to spend that sort of money if it was actually going to help.....but Im afraid that OA just doesn't fall into the camp of mendable yet......
I am entirely comparing human healthcare to animal here but...the main moral (?) issue in this thread for me is the £4500 for a scan. That is f**king outrageous, and has only happened because, as I see it, we went from 'very average levels of pet mending >> lots of insurance >> hugely expensive pet treatments. (which nearly no-one pays themselves if you see what I mean)
The charges you see for what is, at the end of the day, entirely comparable technology is shocking - no wonder you're having to think carefully - and i have seen this for numerous things where the cost to a human would be a fraction.
Its entirely possible I'm missing something - maybe these things aren't comparable....but seeing as your choice is an X-ray and/or MRI scan.....there isn't a magic 'OA in dogs' scan....then i think this is a pretty appalling quote.
my own view just echoes the posters that say its about the animals long term welfare rather than cost. I wouldnt hesitate to spend that sort of money if it was actually going to help.....but Im afraid that OA just doesn't fall into the camp of mendable yet......
daytona365 said:
If we truly love our pets, then we should recognize when that inevitable time is approaching, and not spend thousands to pick, poke and experiment on them to try and make them last a little longer for OUR benefit.
This. There's nothing at all cruel about having a pet PTS - it's the rest of the household who will suffer more. I don't think anyone should make judgements on the way others deal with their very ill pets personally, assuming the choices are 'normal' and not take it out the back with a gun type thing.
I once owned a pedigree German Shepard who I rehomed ,he was ace possibly the best mutt I have ever had the pleasure of owning. anyhow he was diagnosed with Perianal Fistula a nasty little problem involving his immune system. the vet proscribed immunosuppressant drugs at the cost of circa £600 pounds a month, needless to say I coughed up .this went on for 5 months until the vet decided that it really was not working and the best choice was surgery.
my point being as long as the animals quality of life is not compromised I am prepared to pay what ever it takes
my point being as long as the animals quality of life is not compromised I am prepared to pay what ever it takes
citizensm1th said:
I once owned a pedigree German Shepard who I rehomed ,he was ace possibly the best mutt I have ever had the pleasure of owning. anyhow he was diagnosed with Perianal Fistula a nasty little problem involving his immune system. the vet proscribed immunosuppressant drugs at the cost of circa £600 pounds a month, needless to say I coughed up .this went on for 5 months until the vet decided that it really was not working and the best choice was surgery.
my point being as long as the animals quality of life is not compromised I am prepared to pay what ever it takes
How come he wasn't insured? my point being as long as the animals quality of life is not compromised I am prepared to pay what ever it takes
toohangry said:
How come he wasn't insured?
Insurance won't cover everything, it also depends on the policy yiuve taken out.I pay £1k+ per annum for Pepi, but should I need it, everything is covered, giving me peace of mind. I looked at gettimg cheaper, but the cover wasn't as good & I can't afford the gamble.
toohangry said:
How come he wasn't insured?
I never insure my animals if they need medical treatment I pay for it ,and my vet knows me well enough to allow me to pay in instalments if I have to( only had to once when one of my cats needed treatment a week before payday)Thankfully I live in the countryside and my vets is a country practice run by two very very nice lady vets who I have used for the last 19 years ,even the receptionist knows me so well she knows my mobile number and gives me stick over the phone when I call (by stick I mean friendly banter, she is a cheeky old mare)
I rescued a cat a couple of years ago and took her to my vets to see if she was chipped(she wasn't) and despite posters in the area I found her and notices in all the local pet shops we never found the owner.my vet knowing me and the story of said moggy never charged me for the initial health check nor for the subsequent check ups through her pregnancy( yep up the duff with 5 kittens lol) that's the sort of people I want as my animals vet not some anonymous multi practise money grabbing machine that seems to be growing these days.
Find a good vet support them and build a long term relationship and I find you don't need to pay out to insurance companies .
citizensm1th said:
toohangry said:
How come he wasn't insured?
I never insure my animals if they need medical treatment I pay for it ,and my vet knows me well enough to allow me to pay in instalments if I have to( only had to once when one of my cats needed treatment a week before payday)Thankfully I live in the countryside and my vets is a country practice run by two very very nice lady vets who I have used for the last 19 years ,even the receptionist knows me so well she knows my mobile number and gives me stick over the phone when I call (by stick I mean friendly banter, she is a cheeky old mare)
I rescued a cat a couple of years ago and took her to my vets to see if she was chipped(she wasn't) and despite posters in the area I found her and notices in all the local pet shops we never found the owner.my vet knowing me and the story of said moggy never charged me for the initial health check nor for the subsequent check ups through her pregnancy( yep up the duff with 5 kittens lol) that's the sort of people I want as my animals vet not some anonymous multi practise money grabbing machine that seems to be growing these days.
Find a good vet support them and build a long term relationship and I find you don't need to pay out to insurance companies .
toohangry said:
I'd argue if you know your vet that well, insurance would save you a fortune!!
id argue it would not ,the only thing I do not buy animal wise from my vet is food. leads ,toys, flea and tick treatments I buy from my vet, why do I do this? because I want them to survive and stay in practiseI could no doubt pay less at pets are us etc. as I said find a good vet and support them I find they will support you in return when you need it. plus its a village not a city we tend to know eachother
citizensm1th said:
toohangry said:
I'd argue if you know your vet that well, insurance would save you a fortune!!
id argue it would not ,the only thing I do not buy animal wise from my vet is food. leads ,toys, flea and tick treatments I buy from my vet, why do I do this? because I want them to survive and stay in practiseI could no doubt pay less at pets are us etc. as I said find a good vet and support them I find they will support you in return when you need it. plus its a village not a city we tend to know eachother
Interesting that the OP has raised something that I've thought about a few times when watching some kind of 'supervets' programme on the tv where literally thousands are being spent 'fixing' an animal.
I'm afraid I can't help but think the time and equipment would be better spent fixing people.
As someone above has said, when I was a kid growing up 25 years ago, if your pet got seriously ill it got the trip to the vets, especially if the issue was going to be an ongoing illness distressing to the animal and the owners.
But with the advent of insurance, a whole industry has been created where vets effectively are now over-treating animals, spending thousands to give an animal better care than a human and with no apparent limit on what they are willing to spend to do it.
Vets must be absolutely creaming it in! No wonder they are willing to see the model above continue to spiral upward.
I'm afraid I can't help but think the time and equipment would be better spent fixing people.
As someone above has said, when I was a kid growing up 25 years ago, if your pet got seriously ill it got the trip to the vets, especially if the issue was going to be an ongoing illness distressing to the animal and the owners.
But with the advent of insurance, a whole industry has been created where vets effectively are now over-treating animals, spending thousands to give an animal better care than a human and with no apparent limit on what they are willing to spend to do it.
Vets must be absolutely creaming it in! No wonder they are willing to see the model above continue to spiral upward.
Piersman2 said:
I'm afraid I can't help but think the time and equipment would be better spent fixing people.
The staff time and equipment are bought and paid for, though, so it's ultimately down to money. Some might say that the money spent fixing hobby cars would be better spent fixing animals...Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff