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Sorry, how many dogs are fighting now? It's not clear
Have you had any of them spayed yet?
What has the Vet said?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Sorry, how many dogs are fighting now? It's not clear
Have you had any of them spayed yet?
What has the Vet said?
Spaying may help to settle the situation, but there are no guarantees, and it may be that your vet is correct (that you will have to rehome one, or keep them permanently separated).
In my experience, some females can get along fine - I had two females and a male who lived together with no issues whatsoever. But others cannot - I had a second female pairing that did not work out; unfortunately the younger dog kept attacking the older one and had to be returned to rescue. All of the dogs involved were spayed or neutered.
As I understand it, females can be much worse than males in terms of aggression and 'bearing a grudge' - there is a saying: 'males fight for breeding rights; females fight for breathing rights'.
I would certainly think long and hard before having another female pairing; currently I have one female and three males.
In my experience, some females can get along fine - I had two females and a male who lived together with no issues whatsoever. But others cannot - I had a second female pairing that did not work out; unfortunately the younger dog kept attacking the older one and had to be returned to rescue. All of the dogs involved were spayed or neutered.
As I understand it, females can be much worse than males in terms of aggression and 'bearing a grudge' - there is a saying: 'males fight for breeding rights; females fight for breathing rights'.
I would certainly think long and hard before having another female pairing; currently I have one female and three males.
ali_kat said:
Agree with KFC & Bex
There's no shortage of WCS, and these sound like they have nasty traits! Spay & get them into a behaviourist
This. Cant understand why you wouldn't get them spayed. I would rather get the 3 dogs you already have to the stage where they are acceptable rather than risking it all for the sake of bringing more puppies into this world!There's no shortage of WCS, and these sound like they have nasty traits! Spay & get them into a behaviourist
highflyer said:
Thanks for the replies
just to clarify we have a 9 year old Amber (b
h) an 18 month Meer (bh) and a 6 month old Ayianna (bh) all intact not spayed
Amber and Meer were fine to start with but Meer came into season and Amber has started to attack her, Meer was submissive at 1st but now gives as good as she gets which results in a fight
Amber will not leave here alone so is now kept separate from Meer
We would like to breed from Meer in the next year so don't really want to have her spayed due to Ambers age we could spay her if it will help
So you have two girls who are dominant. Not good.just to clarify we have a 9 year old Amber (b
h) an 18 month Meer (bh) and a 6 month old Ayianna (bh) all intact not spayedAmber and Meer were fine to start with but Meer came into season and Amber has started to attack her, Meer was submissive at 1st but now gives as good as she gets which results in a fight
Amber will not leave here alone so is now kept separate from Meer
We would like to breed from Meer in the next year so don't really want to have her spayed due to Ambers age we could spay her if it will help
Once spayed, a girl may be happy BUT can still look to attack for a year, or even more (some breeders think that it becomes learned behaviour and at her age she has had a lot of seasons).
At this point I would be looking to keep the girls apart but where they can see, but not get, to each other. Also, I would swap their blankets over frequently so they get smells.
Also, breeding may result in Amber killing Meer's pups if she got half a chance.
Jasandjules said:
highflyer said:
Thanks for the replies
just to clarify we have a 9 year old Amber (bh) an 18 month Meer (bh) and a 6 month old Ayianna (bh) all intact not spayed
Amber and Meer were fine to start with but Meer came into season and Amber has started to attack her, Meer was submissive at 1st but now gives as good as she gets which results in a fight
Amber will not leave here alone so is now kept separate from Meer
We would like to breed from Meer in the next year so don't really want to have her spayed due to Ambers age we could spay her if it will help
So you have two girls who are dominant. Not good.just to clarify we have a 9 year old Amber (b
h) an 18 month Meer (bh) and a 6 month old Ayianna (bh) all intact not spayedAmber and Meer were fine to start with but Meer came into season and Amber has started to attack her, Meer was submissive at 1st but now gives as good as she gets which results in a fight
Amber will not leave here alone so is now kept separate from Meer
We would like to breed from Meer in the next year so don't really want to have her spayed due to Ambers age we could spay her if it will help
Once spayed, a girl may be happy BUT can still look to attack for a year, or even more (some breeders think that it becomes learned behaviour and at her age she has had a lot of seasons).
At this point I would be looking to keep the girls apart but where they can see, but not get, to each other. Also, I would swap their blankets over frequently so they get smells.
Also, breeding may result in Amber killing Meer's pups if she got half a chance.
ali_kat said:
I fking hate it when people ask for advise then COMPLETELY ignore it for their own selfish reasons rather than the good of their pet 
What can you do?king hate it when people ask for advise then COMPLETELY ignore it for their own selfish reasons rather than the good of their pet OP - I hope for your sake and the sake of your dogs that the situation doesn't escalate further before then. In my experience, things can get really bad, really fast
I certainly can't see things improving - although I'm interested in what the behavourist did to sort it 'in 3 minutes flat'?I didn't realise just how badly it was affecting my older dog, until I returned the younger dog to rescue. It was then that I saw that we'd all been 'walking on eggshells' and my older dog returned to her happy, cheeky self.
Edited by moorx on Tuesday 25th August 13:41
No offence OP but all i heard is we, we, we. All seem pretty pointless reasons if your risking your current dogs quality of lives. My dogs have the odd squabble which has turned into a fight once or twice (which we have stopped now, fingers crossed) but i would do anything to minimise the risk as its bloody horrible spectacle watching your two family members try to hurt each other.
highflyer said:
alikat
Im not ignoring the advice (READ MY fking REPLY) I have said I will follow the advice when Meer has finished her season, why is everybody including vets so insistent on having females spayed and males done,
KFC The reason for having a litter of pups is so that the female is less likely to get the disease problems with their internal bits later in life, that's what I have always been led to believe and up until now we have never had a problem with our un spayed girls Jazz was 15 when we lost her a couple of years ago with no health issues throughout her long life, and Amber has never had any issues at 9
If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC, alikat (it is hard work but worth every minute) just to make it clear alikat there are no nasty traits.
PS thank you BexVN and Jasandjules for your CONSTRUCTIVE comments
No Males, older female dominant.
I'll let KFC and alikat reply for themselves, but I think it's pretty patronising to suggest that people should raise a litter of puppies just for their own fun - especially those involved in rescue, who have to deal with the fallout of overbreeding every day. And don't tell me that purebred/breeders' dogs never end up in rescue - I have two myself and have seen many, many more.Im not ignoring the advice (READ MY f
king REPLY) I have said I will follow the advice when Meer has finished her season, why is everybody including vets so insistent on having females spayed and males done, KFC The reason for having a litter of pups is so that the female is less likely to get the disease problems with their internal bits later in life, that's what I have always been led to believe and up until now we have never had a problem with our un spayed girls Jazz was 15 when we lost her a couple of years ago with no health issues throughout her long life, and Amber has never had any issues at 9
If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC, alikat (it is hard work but worth every minute) just to make it clear alikat there are no nasty traits.
PS thank you BexVN and Jasandjules for your CONSTRUCTIVE comments
No Males, older female dominant.
Edited by highflyer on Tuesday 25th August 18:46
Bex is probably best placed to comment on the theory that letting b
hes have a litter protects against health issues, but that sounds like very outdated thinking to me. It certainly doesn't stop unspayed bhes getting Pyometra AFAIK.Edited by moorx on Tuesday 25th August 19:21
moorx said:
highflyer said:
alikat
Im not ignoring the advice (READ MY fking REPLY) I have said I will follow the advice when Meer has finished her season, why is everybody including vets so insistent on having females spayed and males done,
KFC The reason for having a litter of pups is so that the female is less likely to get the disease problems with their internal bits later in life, that's what I have always been led to believe and up until now we have never had a problem with our un spayed girls Jazz was 15 when we lost her a couple of years ago with no health issues throughout her long life, and Amber has never had any issues at 9
If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC, alikat (it is hard work but worth every minute) just to make it clear alikat there are no nasty traits.
PS thank you BexVN and Jasandjules for your CONSTRUCTIVE comments
No Males, older female dominant.
I'll let KFC and alikat reply for themselves, but I think it's pretty patronising to suggest that people should raise a litter of puppies just for their own fun - especially those involved in rescue, who have to deal with the fallout of overbreeding every day. And don't tell me that purebred/breeders' dogs never end up in rescue - I have two myself and have seen many, many more.Im not ignoring the advice (READ MY f
king REPLY) I have said I will follow the advice when Meer has finished her season, why is everybody including vets so insistent on having females spayed and males done, KFC The reason for having a litter of pups is so that the female is less likely to get the disease problems with their internal bits later in life, that's what I have always been led to believe and up until now we have never had a problem with our un spayed girls Jazz was 15 when we lost her a couple of years ago with no health issues throughout her long life, and Amber has never had any issues at 9
If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC, alikat (it is hard work but worth every minute) just to make it clear alikat there are no nasty traits.
PS thank you BexVN and Jasandjules for your CONSTRUCTIVE comments
No Males, older female dominant.
Edited by highflyer on Tuesday 25th August 18:46
Bex is probably best placed to comment on the theory that letting b
hes have a litter protects against health issues, but that sounds like very outdated thinking to me. It certainly doesn't stop unspayed bhes getting Pyometra AFAIK.Edited by moorx on Tuesday 25th August 19:21
hes to begin with as i have read they are abit iffy in the same households (sometimes).highflyer said:
KFC The reason for having a litter of pups is so that the female is less likely to get the disease problems with their internal bits later in life, that's what I have always been led to believe and up until now we have never had a problem with our un spayed girls Jazz was 15 when we lost her a couple of years ago with no health issues throughout her long life, and Amber has never had any issues at 9
If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC
The health thing of "let them have a litter first" is an old wives tale.... there is no truth in it.If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC
The thing about "oh I just love seeing some cute puppies run around the house for a couple of months" is pretty much the most selfish thing a pet owner can do. Though I guess you know that and don't care. You're not helping anything at all by adding half a dozen low quality dogs to the mix here, are you?
highflyer said:
alikat
Im not ignoring the advice (READ MY fking REPLY) I have said I will follow the advice when Meer has finished her season, why is everybody including vets so insistent on having females spayed and males done,
KFC The reason for having a litter of pups is so that the female is less likely to get the disease problems with their internal bits later in life, that's what I have always been led to believe and up until now we have never had a problem with our un spayed girls Jazz was 15 when we lost her a couple of years ago with no health issues throughout her long life, and Amber has never had any issues at 9
If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC, alikat (it is hard work but worth every minute) just to make it clear alikat there are no nasty traits.]
Im not ignoring the advice (READ MY f
king REPLY) I have said I will follow the advice when Meer has finished her season, why is everybody including vets so insistent on having females spayed and males done, KFC The reason for having a litter of pups is so that the female is less likely to get the disease problems with their internal bits later in life, that's what I have always been led to believe and up until now we have never had a problem with our un spayed girls Jazz was 15 when we lost her a couple of years ago with no health issues throughout her long life, and Amber has never had any issues at 9
If spaying is the answer then that is what will be done !
Again the wife and I love having the pups they are born in the house and reared in the house and when they are old enough play outside in the field its so much fun watching them grow up knowing they have had the best start in life they can get, you should try it sometime KFC, alikat (it is hard work but worth every minute) just to make it clear alikat there are no nasty traits.]
KFC & I may argue on matters of cat, but he has cared for more dogs than you've had hot dinners, and when it comes to problem dog advice there are few better qualified here to give it!
Spaying & neutering stops these problems. End of story.
You care more about a litter of pups than stopping the problem, yiuve been warned that the other b
h may well kill them, but you still persist in your desires. How can they possibly have the best start in life coming into a house full of fighting bhes?! And as fir yiu saying there are no nasty traits re-read your lists, if they aren't nasty traits, well...I would be very concerned about having pups in the house. That may well drastically escalate matters and I do feel if the bhes met then it would be to the death. There would also be a serious risk of the pups being killed by either bh I am afraid.
Also, spaying may not solve the problem immediately or at all. At nine she's still got a lot of hormones, of course you may be lucky and these will reduce quickly and the girls will be friends. Also bear in mind you appear to have a third girl as I read that - what is her personality? How does she behave around the other girls?
Also having a litter does not eliminate chances of pyro - it is quite possible for an older dog to get this even if they have had 2-3 litters I am afraid.
Finally, do you feel you will be able to improve the breed? If so then with a good set of owners lined up (and strong contracts) breeding can be a good thing to do. But it takes a lot of research and health testing to ensure it is done properly. If you don't feel you can improve upon the breed and the bh, then I'd say at this point it is unwise to breed (notwithstanding my view being with the 9 year old in the house it would be most unwise in any event for the reasons above).
If it helps you, I have two in tact girls and I have an intact boy (and an infertile male). They all live in the house free together.
hes met then it would be to the death. There would also be a serious risk of the pups being killed by either bh I am afraid. Also, spaying may not solve the problem immediately or at all. At nine she's still got a lot of hormones, of course you may be lucky and these will reduce quickly and the girls will be friends. Also bear in mind you appear to have a third girl as I read that - what is her personality? How does she behave around the other girls?
Also having a litter does not eliminate chances of pyro - it is quite possible for an older dog to get this even if they have had 2-3 litters I am afraid.
Finally, do you feel you will be able to improve the breed? If so then with a good set of owners lined up (and strong contracts) breeding can be a good thing to do. But it takes a lot of research and health testing to ensure it is done properly. If you don't feel you can improve upon the breed and the b
h, then I'd say at this point it is unwise to breed (notwithstanding my view being with the 9 year old in the house it would be most unwise in any event for the reasons above).If it helps you, I have two in tact girls and I have an intact boy (and an infertile male). They all live in the house free together.
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