FIV / Feline AIDS
Discussion
Guys need some advice. A few months ago we took in a stray ginger tom , he is a very friendly cat who gets along with our other 4 cats fine. He doesn't really venture outside and sleeps an awful lot. We have noticed recently his gums are inflamed and he struggles to eat, and starts hissing at himself and runs away.
About 3 weeks ago we went to the vet to get this checked, he has gingitus(SP) so the vet gave him a jab of antibiotics and told us to come back in 3 weeks. While at the vets we asked about getting him neutered and micro chipped so he would be ours. The vet was weary about doing anything until the cat had a Feline Aids test, so the 3 week appointment was yesterday. He got tested and was positive, the vet gave us a two options; 1) PTTS or 2) Have all his teeth removed which would help with the gum infection and see how he gets on. We just want what's best for the little fella. We have both become massively attached to him and I have no issues in paying for the operation to have all his teeth out aslong as it wont affect him in the long run.
Wise cat people of PH any advice is welcome , past experiences of FIV are welcome.
Here he is
About 3 weeks ago we went to the vet to get this checked, he has gingitus(SP) so the vet gave him a jab of antibiotics and told us to come back in 3 weeks. While at the vets we asked about getting him neutered and micro chipped so he would be ours. The vet was weary about doing anything until the cat had a Feline Aids test, so the 3 week appointment was yesterday. He got tested and was positive, the vet gave us a two options; 1) PTTS or 2) Have all his teeth removed which would help with the gum infection and see how he gets on. We just want what's best for the little fella. We have both become massively attached to him and I have no issues in paying for the operation to have all his teeth out aslong as it wont affect him in the long run.
Wise cat people of PH any advice is welcome , past experiences of FIV are welcome.
Here he is
Have a look at Icatcare, a very good source of information for cat owners
http://icatcare.org/advice/cat-health/feline-immun...
FIV is not the death sentence that untreated HIV is. Many cats live normal healthy and lengthy lives with FIV. That being said it certainly can cause problems such as the stomatitis / gingivitis your cat is suffering from and you should aim to stop him spreading the disease on.
There is a significant risk that your other cats will contract FIV, you should discuss this with your vet.
Stomatitis secondary to FIV is often significantly improved with complete extraction, it is not a pleasant procedure but is preferable to the pain you describe. There are drugs that can be used to help also, from cheap steroids to vastly expensive drugs that you need to import from other countries, all with their pro's and cons.
Cats cope without their teeth very well, I had a cat live into his twenties, for the last few years he had only a single tooth remaining, a canine, he still preferred dry food...
http://icatcare.org/advice/cat-health/feline-immun...
FIV is not the death sentence that untreated HIV is. Many cats live normal healthy and lengthy lives with FIV. That being said it certainly can cause problems such as the stomatitis / gingivitis your cat is suffering from and you should aim to stop him spreading the disease on.
There is a significant risk that your other cats will contract FIV, you should discuss this with your vet.
Stomatitis secondary to FIV is often significantly improved with complete extraction, it is not a pleasant procedure but is preferable to the pain you describe. There are drugs that can be used to help also, from cheap steroids to vastly expensive drugs that you need to import from other countries, all with their pro's and cons.
Cats cope without their teeth very well, I had a cat live into his twenties, for the last few years he had only a single tooth remaining, a canine, he still preferred dry food...
Remove all teeth??? FFS change vet! that is absolute madness. FIV is bad news but removing teeth is just stupid. We had a cat called Dukitty, with FIV, who grew to be Ducati but sadly didn't live past 2yrs, nothing can beat this disease in the long run, but how long is a long run. PM if you want.
My cat cub had all his teeth removed to to rot and infection (not all at once mind) afterwards he became more lively and acted like a kitten again (we can only assume his teeth had been giving him pain for years) he coped very well without teeth still crunched on dry food etc and caught birds although he could kill them!!!
Don't be afraid to have the teeth removed, can't help on the fiv
Don't be afraid to have the teeth removed, can't help on the fiv
Thevet said:
Remove all teeth??? FFS change vet! that is absolute madness. FIV is bad news but removing teeth is just stupid. We had a cat called Dukitty, with FIV, who grew to be Ducati but sadly didn't live past 2yrs, nothing can beat this disease in the long run, but how long is a long run. PM if you want.
Not just removing the teeth just because of the FIV but because of the gum infection too.Removing all teeth in a chronic stomatitis especially viral related isn't so unheard of tbh.
Not something undertaken lightly so obviously of real concern for a vet to advise it.
He will need I/v fluids during the procedure.
With good diet and careful monitoring (ie quick response to any signs of being off colour) they can live a decent life, however they are more prone to succumbing to infections and tumours (lymphomas)
Plus you need to consider your other cats FiV is passed via bodily fluids (mainy during mating due to the male biting the female! and cat fight bites). I have known FiV cats live with non FiV cats and it doesn't spread but I guess it depends on the cats interactions with each other and basic hygiene.
I've seen cats live 10-12yrs with it (though many are younger) once they start getting poorly chronically it is usually a sign the cat is succumbing to the disease and time to let them go.
Not something undertaken lightly so obviously of real concern for a vet to advise it.
He will need I/v fluids during the procedure.
With good diet and careful monitoring (ie quick response to any signs of being off colour) they can live a decent life, however they are more prone to succumbing to infections and tumours (lymphomas)
Plus you need to consider your other cats FiV is passed via bodily fluids (mainy during mating due to the male biting the female! and cat fight bites). I have known FiV cats live with non FiV cats and it doesn't spread but I guess it depends on the cats interactions with each other and basic hygiene.
I've seen cats live 10-12yrs with it (though many are younger) once they start getting poorly chronically it is usually a sign the cat is succumbing to the disease and time to let them go.
Edited by bexVN on Friday 26th February 22:56
Edited by bexVN on Friday 26th February 22:58
Edited by bexVN on Friday 26th February 23:02
We rescued a cat. Well, putting it differently we were told by a rescue a cat would be ready Monday for us to collect.......
He had FIV and all his teeth out. Neither of these facts were given to us at the time... However later on they said the teeth were removed to prevent him biting any of our other cats and passing on the disease.
He had a good few years, eating well, nice warm bed etc...
He had FIV and all his teeth out. Neither of these facts were given to us at the time... However later on they said the teeth were removed to prevent him biting any of our other cats and passing on the disease.
He had a good few years, eating well, nice warm bed etc...
I have 2 FIV +ive kittehs here in Dubai (Arabian Mau's) - its quite common unfortunately 
No issues with their teeth but they do tend to get sicker quicker and for longer, Cicero came to me with a really horrible cold, so much so his nose was completely blocked with snot which I had to physically pull out so he could breathe (that was the most disgusting thing I have ever had to do), it then got passed to Captain, who then passed it back..! so it costs me a bit more at the vets for vitamins and antibios - we don't like giving them antibiotics as they can build up a resistence to it over time and when you really need them, the options are limited.
I bleach everything and their stuff gets hot washed each month.
I personally would get a second opinion, I had Captain (aka Retard 1) and Cicero (aka Retard 2) teeth cleaned and they were a lot better for it, they had to be done under sedation to get to the very back where Retard 2 had problems.
Love them to bits but they are really bloody stupid for cats, especially former street cats.
Captain is about 4 now and Cicero about 5...currently both asleep in the sun.
All I can do for them, and you for yours is just to give them all the love and food and care possible
Claire
No issues with their teeth but they do tend to get sicker quicker and for longer, Cicero came to me with a really horrible cold, so much so his nose was completely blocked with snot which I had to physically pull out so he could breathe (that was the most disgusting thing I have ever had to do), it then got passed to Captain, who then passed it back..! so it costs me a bit more at the vets for vitamins and antibios - we don't like giving them antibiotics as they can build up a resistence to it over time and when you really need them, the options are limited.
I bleach everything and their stuff gets hot washed each month.
I personally would get a second opinion, I had Captain (aka Retard 1) and Cicero (aka Retard 2) teeth cleaned and they were a lot better for it, they had to be done under sedation to get to the very back where Retard 2 had problems.
Love them to bits but they are really bloody stupid for cats, especially former street cats.
Captain is about 4 now and Cicero about 5...currently both asleep in the sun.
All I can do for them, and you for yours is just to give them all the love and food and care possible
Claire
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with TheVet's advice.
It is impossible to know all the facts without having the cat in front of you, and as such I do not think that his advice is appropriate.
Removing all of a cat's teeth is not something that any vet would do lightly, and I do not believe they would do so unless they thought it was in the best interests of the cat.
The options of euthanasia or total extraction go some way to describe the degree of discomfort your cat is suffering from. Total extraction is somewhat of a last resort, but for a cat that would otherwise be put to sleep due to oral pain, it is a good option. There are no guarantees but I would suggest that in the good majority of cases of viral induced stomatitis / gingivitis that end up having total extraction, the improvement in quality of life justifies the invasiveness of the procedure, and the owners are glad they had it done. I do not know what other options have been discussed or which would be appropriate without seeing the case.
By all means seek a second opinion, perhaps even a specialist veterinary dentist, but it needs to be someone who actually sees the animal and has access to the history.
I would also be worth discussing the possibility of other viruses such as Calici being involved, and how to minimise the risk of further passing the virus(s) on.
It is impossible to know all the facts without having the cat in front of you, and as such I do not think that his advice is appropriate.
Removing all of a cat's teeth is not something that any vet would do lightly, and I do not believe they would do so unless they thought it was in the best interests of the cat.
The options of euthanasia or total extraction go some way to describe the degree of discomfort your cat is suffering from. Total extraction is somewhat of a last resort, but for a cat that would otherwise be put to sleep due to oral pain, it is a good option. There are no guarantees but I would suggest that in the good majority of cases of viral induced stomatitis / gingivitis that end up having total extraction, the improvement in quality of life justifies the invasiveness of the procedure, and the owners are glad they had it done. I do not know what other options have been discussed or which would be appropriate without seeing the case.
By all means seek a second opinion, perhaps even a specialist veterinary dentist, but it needs to be someone who actually sees the animal and has access to the history.
I would also be worth discussing the possibility of other viruses such as Calici being involved, and how to minimise the risk of further passing the virus(s) on.
Thank you all for your replies. The history of the cat is unknown as is the age, he has never been neutered but is very friendly with our other cats. Obviously we don't want to risk them either.
I didn't really get to ask the vet many questions, as soon as my pregnant wife heard the outcome she started crying and left the room so I wanted to check on her. We've got to phone then Monday/Tuesday with our decision. All we want is what's best for him.
I didn't really get to ask the vet many questions, as soon as my pregnant wife heard the outcome she started crying and left the room so I wanted to check on her. We've got to phone then Monday/Tuesday with our decision. All we want is what's best for him.
Dont give up on him. When I rescued Captain from the vets cage where he had been rotting for over 3 months without being let out - he was just under 2kg and a mess, I thought I would have to make "that" decision. Nearly 12 months on, he is just over 8kg of solid muscle and flat out on his back next to me snoring. Captain has to have an eye removed soon as its dead and now causing other issues.
Cicero was only in the cage for 1 month but was a mess, had him for nearly 3 months and he is only just putting weight on as he had bad teeth, some missing, lots broken, he is just getting used to crunching biscuits without pain. As I said before, he had to be sedated and have them cleaned properly which has helped enormously and is a lot happier now.
Its a long tough road but so worth it. I know the pair won't make it to the same age as a non FIV cat but all I want for them is to have the best life possible and try and keep them as healthy as I can for as long as I can.
Please get a second opinion. Don't give up on him, he looks so content.
Claire, Captain & Cicero
Cicero was only in the cage for 1 month but was a mess, had him for nearly 3 months and he is only just putting weight on as he had bad teeth, some missing, lots broken, he is just getting used to crunching biscuits without pain. As I said before, he had to be sedated and have them cleaned properly which has helped enormously and is a lot happier now.
Its a long tough road but so worth it. I know the pair won't make it to the same age as a non FIV cat but all I want for them is to have the best life possible and try and keep them as healthy as I can for as long as I can.
Please get a second opinion. Don't give up on him, he looks so content.
Claire, Captain & Cicero
Obviously a second opinion if the OP really isn't happy but total extraction is not a wrong suggestion stomatitis/gingivitis can be so painful for a cat and often a recurring condition so much better for an FiV cat to have just one dental over several. The Vet us right to offer pts as all options should be discussed. It was good the vets were on the ball to suggest checking him before carrying out treatment.
However it may be worth discussing a decent course of antibiotics initially (eg stomorgyl or clindamycin possibly) and see how he responds. This will give time to think about things aswell.
Do just think about your other cats. If he is a fighter (not saying he is, just if) this could be an issue.
However it may be worth discussing a decent course of antibiotics initially (eg stomorgyl or clindamycin possibly) and see how he responds. This will give time to think about things aswell.
Do just think about your other cats. If he is a fighter (not saying he is, just if) this could be an issue.
Edited by bexVN on Saturday 27th February 19:09
n_const said:
I'm not giving up on him. This thread has given me the answers I needed. We will go down the extraction route and see how he is , he is the softest/cuddliest cat I've ever had and we adore him.
Our rescue was just as happy with no teeth as any other cat I've known. He spent the warm days on the patio, his evenings munching on the cat mince we gave him. He enjoyed cuddles and whatnot but mainly his food! Our Black Cat was FIV+ and lived with us and our other two wander-inners for two years.
Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
mrmaggit said:
Our Black Cat was FIV+ and lived with us and our other two wander-inners for two years.
Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
Always hard when a cat does that Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
Are you UK based? I've never seen a vaccine for FiV (though I think there is one in other countries?) there is one for Felt.
mrmaggit said:
Our Black Cat was FIV+ and lived with us and our other two wander-inners for two years.
Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
fTowards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
king dust.bexVN said:
mrmaggit said:
Our Black Cat was FIV+ and lived with us and our other two wander-inners for two years.
Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
Always hard when a cat does that Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
Are you UK based? I've never seen a vaccine for FiV (though I think there is one in other countries?) there is one for Felt.
mrmaggit said:
bexVN said:
mrmaggit said:
Our Black Cat was FIV+ and lived with us and our other two wander-inners for two years.
Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
Always hard when a cat does that Towards the end he was very thin and going off his food.
We were preparing to take him to the vets to be puts, but he came up to me, had a last fuss, and walked out, never to return.
Our other two were free of FIV, and, whilst being inoculated against it, didn't catch it.
I would have no qualms at all about re-homing another FIV+ cat.
Are you UK based? I've never seen a vaccine for FiV (though I think there is one in other countries?) there is one for Felt.
Edited by bexVN on Monday 29th February 18:52
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