What to do about dogs fighting
Discussion
I'll try and make this as short as possible, I'm looking for some advice from the extremely knowledgeable dog owners on here.
He is a 14 month old "Victorian Bulldog", he started to fight with our 2 year old Boston Terrier, at about 6 months old. Due to various issues we had to wait until he was 11 months till we had him neutered (this was advised due to his behaviour and the fighting), by this point he was marking everywhere around the house and generally misbehaving and oozing so much testosterone you could smell it!
Over the first few weeks after neutering the fighting died down along with a lot of his behavioural issues, but the fighting is on the rise again as the behaviour improves and he becomes a great dog.
The last 3-4 times I've not been in the house when it's happened, I'm pretty sure it's because they do see me as the dominant one. (I've stopped what looks like the start of a fight or two with a look, or a command) The worry is despite me telling them not to, my kids 10 and 11 and my wife delve in to stop them, it's only a matter of time before someone gets bitten breaking them up. I'm also a little worried about how fearless the kids are with him and if they ever find that "switch" on him, during play or whatever, I constantly remind them he's an animal, he might go for them and always be weary, but having grown up around dogs since they were babies they have absolutely no fear.
Also, my sister in law with a 6 month old baby visits regularly, we keep the dogs locked in the kitchen, but with 2 kids and absentminded visitors, they escape at lease once a visit! (two access door into kitchen area) This worries me a lot.
He's the most fantastic animal, loyal, friendly obedient, loving, but has a "switch" around food, chews and more worrying dropped food from messy kids wandering around the kitchen, this is how the fights start. We split them up to eat chews, initially put them in their creates but Louie would use his 5 stone and burst out of his and go at Bertie's until it fell apart!
I then tried splitting them in different rooms, but the remains of a chew would be found and fights start again (we also have a 3 year old neutered shih zu who leaves her's everywhere).
So no chews, but if a crumb gets dropped on the floor, they're at it again.
I'm going to contact a behaviourist tonight as I've just has a call that they've been at it again, witnessed by my dog fearing sister in law who's just run out the house back home absolutely terrified, however would appreciate any input.
He is a 14 month old "Victorian Bulldog", he started to fight with our 2 year old Boston Terrier, at about 6 months old. Due to various issues we had to wait until he was 11 months till we had him neutered (this was advised due to his behaviour and the fighting), by this point he was marking everywhere around the house and generally misbehaving and oozing so much testosterone you could smell it!
Over the first few weeks after neutering the fighting died down along with a lot of his behavioural issues, but the fighting is on the rise again as the behaviour improves and he becomes a great dog.
The last 3-4 times I've not been in the house when it's happened, I'm pretty sure it's because they do see me as the dominant one. (I've stopped what looks like the start of a fight or two with a look, or a command) The worry is despite me telling them not to, my kids 10 and 11 and my wife delve in to stop them, it's only a matter of time before someone gets bitten breaking them up. I'm also a little worried about how fearless the kids are with him and if they ever find that "switch" on him, during play or whatever, I constantly remind them he's an animal, he might go for them and always be weary, but having grown up around dogs since they were babies they have absolutely no fear.
Also, my sister in law with a 6 month old baby visits regularly, we keep the dogs locked in the kitchen, but with 2 kids and absentminded visitors, they escape at lease once a visit! (two access door into kitchen area) This worries me a lot.
He's the most fantastic animal, loyal, friendly obedient, loving, but has a "switch" around food, chews and more worrying dropped food from messy kids wandering around the kitchen, this is how the fights start. We split them up to eat chews, initially put them in their creates but Louie would use his 5 stone and burst out of his and go at Bertie's until it fell apart!
I then tried splitting them in different rooms, but the remains of a chew would be found and fights start again (we also have a 3 year old neutered shih zu who leaves her's everywhere).
So no chews, but if a crumb gets dropped on the floor, they're at it again.
I'm going to contact a behaviourist tonight as I've just has a call that they've been at it again, witnessed by my dog fearing sister in law who's just run out the house back home absolutely terrified, however would appreciate any input.
A few things going on here....
1) 5 stone or not, how did he burst out of a crate? Can you post a photo of your crate (or a google image of the same style of crate)? It shouldn't happen. Crates for that size of dog usually have two latches - if he's able to break through them, there's a serious choking risk if the other one "sticks" (as it should do!) and his neck gets caught.
2) Unfortunately you were mis-led regarding neutering. You should have done it whenever you felt was appropriate, regardless of the fighting or his behaviour. Neutering does not on its own change specific behaviours for better or worse. One thing it can do is prevent dogs from maturing fully in some respects. So a puppy neutered early is less likely to develop behaviours like marking/humping.
3) If you're genuinely worried your dogs could injure your children, you need to do something about it now. I don't mean "get in touch with a behaviourist and make a plan"... I mean actually now. At the very least get the crates sorted and give children strict instructions that only one dog at a time is allowed out while you're not there.
4) Can you please explain what the dogs do when they fight? Are there injuries? Are you 100% sure it's not rough playing? Sometimes when my dogs play it looks like a scene from The Tasmanian Devil (cartoon) - just a whirlwind of teeth and claws with vicious sounding snarls and growls... But they're having the time of their lives!
5) It's good that the dogs stop their nonsense when you tell them to. Why don't they do the same for other members of your family? It's not "dominance", that's silly and not how it works. You've never had to pee on your dogs beds or hump them to show them who's boss have you? They know you're not a dog. They are domesticated animals. They might be "your" dogs and always have a stronger bond with you, but some basic respect and manners has to exist between the dogs and all members of your family.
6) Dogs grabbing dropped food is a pet peeve of mine... Get it sorted! What happens when your children drop a paracetamol tablet? A single one could kill a small dog. There are many ways to train the "leave" command - pick one and follow it through. "LEAVE!" should be received like a lightening-bolt from the gods.
Once you've got that sorted, take it further... Food should be a privilege for them. They're pets - scavenging is not acceptable. Humans are the sole providers of food and treats. They should sit back and wait while you fill their bowls. They shouldn't steal food (human or dog food) without you telling them it's OK. They're not exempt from basic manners just because they have tails.
7) Dog fearing people and out-of-control dogs do not mix. It's just asking for trouble. Get their crates sorted (they should be escape-proof) and crate them when sister-in-law comes over.
1) 5 stone or not, how did he burst out of a crate? Can you post a photo of your crate (or a google image of the same style of crate)? It shouldn't happen. Crates for that size of dog usually have two latches - if he's able to break through them, there's a serious choking risk if the other one "sticks" (as it should do!) and his neck gets caught.
2) Unfortunately you were mis-led regarding neutering. You should have done it whenever you felt was appropriate, regardless of the fighting or his behaviour. Neutering does not on its own change specific behaviours for better or worse. One thing it can do is prevent dogs from maturing fully in some respects. So a puppy neutered early is less likely to develop behaviours like marking/humping.
3) If you're genuinely worried your dogs could injure your children, you need to do something about it now. I don't mean "get in touch with a behaviourist and make a plan"... I mean actually now. At the very least get the crates sorted and give children strict instructions that only one dog at a time is allowed out while you're not there.
4) Can you please explain what the dogs do when they fight? Are there injuries? Are you 100% sure it's not rough playing? Sometimes when my dogs play it looks like a scene from The Tasmanian Devil (cartoon) - just a whirlwind of teeth and claws with vicious sounding snarls and growls... But they're having the time of their lives!
5) It's good that the dogs stop their nonsense when you tell them to. Why don't they do the same for other members of your family? It's not "dominance", that's silly and not how it works. You've never had to pee on your dogs beds or hump them to show them who's boss have you? They know you're not a dog. They are domesticated animals. They might be "your" dogs and always have a stronger bond with you, but some basic respect and manners has to exist between the dogs and all members of your family.
6) Dogs grabbing dropped food is a pet peeve of mine... Get it sorted! What happens when your children drop a paracetamol tablet? A single one could kill a small dog. There are many ways to train the "leave" command - pick one and follow it through. "LEAVE!" should be received like a lightening-bolt from the gods.
Once you've got that sorted, take it further... Food should be a privilege for them. They're pets - scavenging is not acceptable. Humans are the sole providers of food and treats. They should sit back and wait while you fill their bowls. They shouldn't steal food (human or dog food) without you telling them it's OK. They're not exempt from basic manners just because they have tails.
7) Dog fearing people and out-of-control dogs do not mix. It's just asking for trouble. Get their crates sorted (they should be escape-proof) and crate them when sister-in-law comes over.
Had the same with my two dogs, one collie and one JR
Thankfully they are small and light dogs, but the collie always won the fights and would mean the terrier needed the vets, even though the terrier is a gobby annoying shiite ..imagine a small wimpy bloke on coke starting a fight.....
Cant really help over time it has gone, due to their size we separated them when out, and bought log fold out gates to stop the getting to each other, as they are scared of the gates falling over they respected them
We did consider re homeing our collie...years down the line he is very settled and respectful to family life
Sorry cant help more.
Re reading your post my collie was very similiar, lovely dog until it comes to another dog and food!
Thankfully they are small and light dogs, but the collie always won the fights and would mean the terrier needed the vets, even though the terrier is a gobby annoying shiite ..imagine a small wimpy bloke on coke starting a fight.....
Cant really help over time it has gone, due to their size we separated them when out, and bought log fold out gates to stop the getting to each other, as they are scared of the gates falling over they respected them
We did consider re homeing our collie...years down the line he is very settled and respectful to family life
Sorry cant help more.
Re reading your post my collie was very similiar, lovely dog until it comes to another dog and food!
My current dog, a staffie, destroyed a supposed extra strong steel crate by biting and pulling off the bars one by one. I replaced the crate with a much stronger version and the same has not happened again over ~10 years.
Get two decent crates, keep them in different rooms and put the dogs in them whenever you have young kids or other vulnerable people visiting. If you can't trust the dog it shouldn't be allowed to be around anybody who doesn't know how to treat a difficult dog and who can't fend off the dog if it does turn.
Specialist help sounds the best way forward here, one of the dogs needs to back down from trying to be the dominant dog otherwise this isn't going to stop any time they are together.
Get two decent crates, keep them in different rooms and put the dogs in them whenever you have young kids or other vulnerable people visiting. If you can't trust the dog it shouldn't be allowed to be around anybody who doesn't know how to treat a difficult dog and who can't fend off the dog if it does turn.
Specialist help sounds the best way forward here, one of the dogs needs to back down from trying to be the dominant dog otherwise this isn't going to stop any time they are together.
Thanks everyone for their input.
In hindsight I'd been in the U.S. and came back to an 12 hour day when I posted, just after the call from my wife, jet lagged, so my post was a bit "tired and emotional"
There is no risk to the kids, or any other human, well no more than any other dog, I spent A LOT of time with the 3 of them over the last few days and think the majority of the issues recently were borne by my being away and the lack of routine caused by this, this trip was a one off, so that should solve that.
Behaviourist booked.
Cages are the standard metal ones for the likes of Pets at home or Amazon, it's only an issue if we give them treats and lock them in, so we aren't doing that anymore.
Overall they are fantastic, I do agree that over time as they get older they will calm down, as the natural pecking order of things is resolved.
No fights since the last one I posted about.
The bulldog in particular needed a bit of structure, so he's currently getting away with nothing and getting very little fuss made of him, it seems to be doing the trick, I've got to admit i'm a bit too soft on him, but no more.
In hindsight I'd been in the U.S. and came back to an 12 hour day when I posted, just after the call from my wife, jet lagged, so my post was a bit "tired and emotional"
There is no risk to the kids, or any other human, well no more than any other dog, I spent A LOT of time with the 3 of them over the last few days and think the majority of the issues recently were borne by my being away and the lack of routine caused by this, this trip was a one off, so that should solve that.
Behaviourist booked.
Cages are the standard metal ones for the likes of Pets at home or Amazon, it's only an issue if we give them treats and lock them in, so we aren't doing that anymore.
Overall they are fantastic, I do agree that over time as they get older they will calm down, as the natural pecking order of things is resolved.
No fights since the last one I posted about.
The bulldog in particular needed a bit of structure, so he's currently getting away with nothing and getting very little fuss made of him, it seems to be doing the trick, I've got to admit i'm a bit too soft on him, but no more.
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