What breed - dog
Discussion
moorx said:
Just to say, very few rescue centres would allow you to adopt a dog if you're planning to keep it outside (even if 'just' overnight).
It will not be kept outside! It will be kept in summerhouse that we can see from our bedroom window.Can someone please explain the sleeping in the shed thing to me please, all seem to agree that its not fair/will distress the dog, I haven't read this anywhere and from personal experience have seen no issues with a dog that is kept this way! I am not getting funny about it as it seems everyone finds it weird I'd want it sleeping in the shed!
Just to add I see no difference in the dog being in the kitchen or summerhouse! The summer house would be set up for the dog with bedding and heating! If people suggest the dog being upstairs that is a deal breaker wouldn't want that!
As a first time owner I am sure these ideas I have will be blown out the water when I actually get a dog, I will update in 3 months with a picture of the dog in my bed
Edited by joshcowin on Wednesday 1st March 10:40
Mastiff said:
Largely because it is a little weird - you say you want a family pet and then seem to want to keep it like a working dog.
Just to clear up the dog would be away from humans whilst they sleep and that is it, all the other time it would be interacting with people and other dogs!I started this thread because I didn't want to get a dog that wouldn't be 100% happy and content, that is my whole motivation behind this thread!
Some dogs do adapt to living in a kennel, generally are better if they have another dog with them.
Expect them to be noisy for a while before settling down, and it's then difficult to bring them indoors ie toilet training, marking territory, etc.
I do not have my hunting dogs outside as I want them to be part of the family / pack; I have friends who keep theirs in a kennel [they have several hunting dogs] but they are hardy breeds not small / medium breeds that you want as a pet.
If you want a pet then it needs to be inclusive. For me it is irrelevant as to whether it is pedigree or x breed. If it's outside, particularly as a puppy, then expect issues.
First dog I would consider a spaniel or lab, probably a lab would be better. If your getting a dog, DO NOT be house proud, expect damage, expect to clear up sick and pooh, and remember some dogs suffer badly with seperation anxiety.
I am sure you have considered all this and I am saying nothing useful, but please consider this as a life changing move. It's a bit like having a new baby, but it never grows up, can be very naughty and relies on you every day.
Expect them to be noisy for a while before settling down, and it's then difficult to bring them indoors ie toilet training, marking territory, etc.
I do not have my hunting dogs outside as I want them to be part of the family / pack; I have friends who keep theirs in a kennel [they have several hunting dogs] but they are hardy breeds not small / medium breeds that you want as a pet.
If you want a pet then it needs to be inclusive. For me it is irrelevant as to whether it is pedigree or x breed. If it's outside, particularly as a puppy, then expect issues.
First dog I would consider a spaniel or lab, probably a lab would be better. If your getting a dog, DO NOT be house proud, expect damage, expect to clear up sick and pooh, and remember some dogs suffer badly with seperation anxiety.
I am sure you have considered all this and I am saying nothing useful, but please consider this as a life changing move. It's a bit like having a new baby, but it never grows up, can be very naughty and relies on you every day.
Is your shed soundproofed? Do you have any close neighbours? Hope he's not a howler!
I'm going to break with tradition and am not going to say definitely don't get a collie as I know people that have had them as first dogs, but I would say be aware of what you might be getting if you do. It can be done but do research, join your local dog training club and if you stick with it past the initial puppy course all "should" be ok if you go in with your eyes open. However, i'd say wanting to keep your dog in the shed and worrying about mess/dirt at this stage perhaps means any dog isn't quite right for you guys at this time. A pet dog should be part of the family and banishing to the shed when you feel like it will send all the wrong signals. Could you not take out family members dogs for them? That means you get to take them places and do walks/fun stuff but give them back when you're done?
Anyway, some friends of ours had a collie as a first dog and they knew what they were getting themselves in to and flung themselves into training and learning about how to train a dog so much that they are now dog trainers themselves. Their collie is a great, very well behaved boy but he is kept busy all the time as others have said. On the flip side of that, we decided on a collie for our 4th dog, he's ISDS registered from a welsh hill farm, working stock, his Dad's on the Scottish trialling team etc etc. We were hoping he'd be a real live wire as my wife does agility and was looking for something driven. But compared to our working spaniels he is the laziest animal ever. He has absolutely zero work ethic and is more content to sort of slide over the stair gate in a beached whale style (as jumping is too much effort) to get into the lounge and on to the sofa so he can sleep in peace and quiet. He is the perfect "pet" dog. He is happy to just chill out all day, has no issues being away from us (though he does have the other dogs so is never truly alone). I doubt he'd mind being in your summer house on his own if he had a comfy bed but i'd say he is very much the exception to the rule but proves that quiet calm collies do exist. If you put our cocker down there he'd be howling until you let him out though as he needs to be with people doing stuff constantly! Oh and our collie is short haired too:
IMG_4919(B&W) by Chrisga, on Flickr
Posted this pic in the dogs photo thread the other week when we walked with three sets of friends and our collies (plus one of our springers):
IMG_20170121_124034 by Chrisga, on Flickr
p.s. - I wouldn't keep any of our dogs, working or otherwise, outside. They are all crate trained though so they sleep in their own crates and often opt to go in there for some time out on their own. People think Collies need a lot of exercise but that's because compared to spaniels out on a walk I reckon they cover about a third of the distance!
I'm going to break with tradition and am not going to say definitely don't get a collie as I know people that have had them as first dogs, but I would say be aware of what you might be getting if you do. It can be done but do research, join your local dog training club and if you stick with it past the initial puppy course all "should" be ok if you go in with your eyes open. However, i'd say wanting to keep your dog in the shed and worrying about mess/dirt at this stage perhaps means any dog isn't quite right for you guys at this time. A pet dog should be part of the family and banishing to the shed when you feel like it will send all the wrong signals. Could you not take out family members dogs for them? That means you get to take them places and do walks/fun stuff but give them back when you're done?
Anyway, some friends of ours had a collie as a first dog and they knew what they were getting themselves in to and flung themselves into training and learning about how to train a dog so much that they are now dog trainers themselves. Their collie is a great, very well behaved boy but he is kept busy all the time as others have said. On the flip side of that, we decided on a collie for our 4th dog, he's ISDS registered from a welsh hill farm, working stock, his Dad's on the Scottish trialling team etc etc. We were hoping he'd be a real live wire as my wife does agility and was looking for something driven. But compared to our working spaniels he is the laziest animal ever. He has absolutely zero work ethic and is more content to sort of slide over the stair gate in a beached whale style (as jumping is too much effort) to get into the lounge and on to the sofa so he can sleep in peace and quiet. He is the perfect "pet" dog. He is happy to just chill out all day, has no issues being away from us (though he does have the other dogs so is never truly alone). I doubt he'd mind being in your summer house on his own if he had a comfy bed but i'd say he is very much the exception to the rule but proves that quiet calm collies do exist. If you put our cocker down there he'd be howling until you let him out though as he needs to be with people doing stuff constantly! Oh and our collie is short haired too:
IMG_4919(B&W) by Chrisga, on FlickrPosted this pic in the dogs photo thread the other week when we walked with three sets of friends and our collies (plus one of our springers):
IMG_20170121_124034 by Chrisga, on Flickrp.s. - I wouldn't keep any of our dogs, working or otherwise, outside. They are all crate trained though so they sleep in their own crates and often opt to go in there for some time out on their own. People think Collies need a lot of exercise but that's because compared to spaniels out on a walk I reckon they cover about a third of the distance!
Great insight thanks, we had a family members black lab for 4 days which was great, he slept in the lounge and was extremely well behaved however ideally he would have slept outside, like he does at home! but due to it all being new for him thought we would keep him in.
Oh and GREAT pics!!
Oh and GREAT pics!!
You know the old adage "if you have to ask, you can't afford it"? It works the same for working dogs, particularly border collies. If you have to ask about the requirements, I'm sorry you really aren't ready for one.
I cannot emphasise enough how much hard work is involved in keeping a working dog adequately looked after, trained, and stimulated. You're looking at a minimum of two hours a day walking, on top (not instead of) of any running, training, and playing, which you need to be doing.
That's in the pissing rain, wind, snow. Regardless family commitments, bad days at work, and weekends away. That's what you're signed up for, that's the minimum. Having a kid in a few years, not slept in three days? No excuse, get your boots on. Funeral? - Who's walking the dog? Dog walker? That's great but it won't be enough, get the boots out again... Oh and if you have a kid, you're going to find out real quick how well you have trained your dog.
Most owners of these border collies are a
holes for precisely this reason. There's st loads of ignorant middle class people in my estate who are utterly incapable of looking after these dogs, and as very intelligent animals, they sadly develop all sorts of behavioural issues. Usually accompanied by bullst excuses like, "oh she doesn't like male dogs". Same goes for these chavvy aholes with morbidly obese Rottweilers or heavily inbred Alsations, which do about 200 yards walk a day. Their only real exercise comes from mauling smaller dogs and eating children from what I can tell.
Get something else, a rescue dog, and don't keep it in the bloody shed you heartless bd, you clearly don't know what you're doing, and will clearly instill some sort of mental issue.
I cannot emphasise enough how much hard work is involved in keeping a working dog adequately looked after, trained, and stimulated. You're looking at a minimum of two hours a day walking, on top (not instead of) of any running, training, and playing, which you need to be doing.
That's in the pissing rain, wind, snow. Regardless family commitments, bad days at work, and weekends away. That's what you're signed up for, that's the minimum. Having a kid in a few years, not slept in three days? No excuse, get your boots on. Funeral? - Who's walking the dog? Dog walker? That's great but it won't be enough, get the boots out again... Oh and if you have a kid, you're going to find out real quick how well you have trained your dog.
Most owners of these border collies are a
holes for precisely this reason. There's st loads of ignorant middle class people in my estate who are utterly incapable of looking after these dogs, and as very intelligent animals, they sadly develop all sorts of behavioural issues. Usually accompanied by bullst excuses like, "oh she doesn't like male dogs". Same goes for these chavvy aholes with morbidly obese Rottweilers or heavily inbred Alsations, which do about 200 yards walk a day. Their only real exercise comes from mauling smaller dogs and eating children from what I can tell.Get something else, a rescue dog, and don't keep it in the bloody shed you heartless b
d, you clearly don't know what you're doing, and will clearly instill some sort of mental issue. tonyb1968 said:
Its a dangerous minefield you have stumbled into, everyone will say that their dog is the best breed for you to get
You would think that, but I have two Jack Russells and don't recommend them, unless you want to kill an army of rats. They're nice and friendly, they just seem to exist in a different world to everyone else.I would recommend a dog that I previously had though, a collie, staffy, spaniel mix. He was an incredibly smart dog, no aggression at all, easy to train, because he had the staffy laziness he didn't need constant stimulation, he didn't have the craziness of a spaniel or understimulated collie. He did lose a fair bit of hair, but it was generally easy to clean up, except I had a Peugeot at one time and the hairs wove themselves into the seat fabric (he didn't go into the boot, he liked the view and would lean into corners). He lived to 10, had no health issues at all in that time, just had his annual jab, then had a heart attack and that was it.
Prof Prolapse said:
You know the old adage "if you have to ask, you can't afford it"? It works the same for working dogs, particularly border collies. If you have to ask about the requirements, I'm sorry you really aren't ready for one.
I cannot emphasise enough how much hard work is involved in keeping a working dog adequately looked after, trained, and stimulated. You're looking at a minimum of two hours a day walking, on top (not instead of) of any running, training, and playing, which you need to be doing.
That's in the pissing rain, wind, snow. Regardless family commitments, bad days at work, and weekends away. That's what you're signed up for, that's the minimum. Having a kid in a few years, not slept in three days? No excuse, get your boots on. Funeral? - Who's walking the dog? Dog walker? That's great but it won't be enough, get the boots out again... Oh and if you have a kid, you're going to find out real quick how well you have trained your dog.
Most owners of these border collies are aholes for precisely this reason. There's st loads of ignorant middle class people in my estate who are utterly incapable of looking after these dogs, and as very intelligent animals, they sadly develop all sorts of behavioural issues. Usually accompanied by bullst excuses like, "oh she doesn't like male dogs". Same goes for these chavvy aholes with morbidly obese Rottweilers or heavily inbred Alsations, which do about 200 yards walk a day. Their only real exercise comes from mauling smaller dogs and eating children from what I can tell.
Get something else, a rescue dog, and don't keep it in the bloody shed you heartless bd, you clearly don't know what you're doing, and will clearly instill some sort of mental issue.
Everything OK mate? I will ignore the stupidity in the last paragraph, maybe at that stage your brain prolapsed!!I cannot emphasise enough how much hard work is involved in keeping a working dog adequately looked after, trained, and stimulated. You're looking at a minimum of two hours a day walking, on top (not instead of) of any running, training, and playing, which you need to be doing.
That's in the pissing rain, wind, snow. Regardless family commitments, bad days at work, and weekends away. That's what you're signed up for, that's the minimum. Having a kid in a few years, not slept in three days? No excuse, get your boots on. Funeral? - Who's walking the dog? Dog walker? That's great but it won't be enough, get the boots out again... Oh and if you have a kid, you're going to find out real quick how well you have trained your dog.
Most owners of these border collies are a
holes for precisely this reason. There's st loads of ignorant middle class people in my estate who are utterly incapable of looking after these dogs, and as very intelligent animals, they sadly develop all sorts of behavioural issues. Usually accompanied by bullst excuses like, "oh she doesn't like male dogs". Same goes for these chavvy aholes with morbidly obese Rottweilers or heavily inbred Alsations, which do about 200 yards walk a day. Their only real exercise comes from mauling smaller dogs and eating children from what I can tell.Get something else, a rescue dog, and don't keep it in the bloody shed you heartless b
d, you clearly don't know what you're doing, and will clearly instill some sort of mental issue. I am an adult thanks for your opinion don't have another meltdown if I ignore it!
Everybody else has been really helpful and opened my eyes a little, thanks.
Hi Josh
I hope you realise all the advice being given is because we love all dogs. I feel sure no one is being judgemental but like other posters I think your dog should live in the house. Being downstairs they can smell and probably hear you too. This means they are still part of the pack. Being out of the house, however luxurious, means they are separated from you (their pack) with the potential for separation anxiety.
Our first dog was a rescue collie. I don't think they are ideal as a first dog. They need mental stimulation, in my opinion, more than physical. With the constant demands on our tme nowadays it is very easy to not give enough stimulation and then the rot sets in. Collies also come with a wide range of characteristics, from incredibly laid back to full on manic. Some of these traits do not materialise until they mature.
My advice is a rescue, goldie or cockerpoo. The last two seem the most biddable
Finally, thanks for asking our opinions. You sound as though you are taking our views and experience on board. This should only lead to happy owners and the first of many happy dogs. Good luck.
I hope you realise all the advice being given is because we love all dogs. I feel sure no one is being judgemental but like other posters I think your dog should live in the house. Being downstairs they can smell and probably hear you too. This means they are still part of the pack. Being out of the house, however luxurious, means they are separated from you (their pack) with the potential for separation anxiety.
Our first dog was a rescue collie. I don't think they are ideal as a first dog. They need mental stimulation, in my opinion, more than physical. With the constant demands on our tme nowadays it is very easy to not give enough stimulation and then the rot sets in. Collies also come with a wide range of characteristics, from incredibly laid back to full on manic. Some of these traits do not materialise until they mature.
My advice is a rescue, goldie or cockerpoo. The last two seem the most biddable
Finally, thanks for asking our opinions. You sound as though you are taking our views and experience on board. This should only lead to happy owners and the first of many happy dogs. Good luck.
garythesign said:
Hi Josh
I hope you realise all the advice being given is because we love all dogs. I feel sure no one is being judgemental but like other posters I think your dog should live in the house. Being downstairs they can smell and probably hear you too. This means they are still part of the pack. Being out of the house, however luxurious, means they are separated from you (their pack) with the potential for separation anxiety.
Our first dog was a rescue collie. I don't think they are ideal as a first dog. They need mental stimulation, in my opinion, more than physical. With the constant demands on our tme nowadays it is very easy to not give enough stimulation and then the rot sets in. Collies also come with a wide range of characteristics, from incredibly laid back to full on manic. Some of these traits do not materialise until they mature.
My advice is a rescue, goldie or cockerpoo. The last two seem the most biddable
Finally, thanks for asking our opinions. You sound as though you are taking our views and experience on board. This should only lead to happy owners and the first of many happy dogs. Good luck.
I also love dogs and all animals and would hate to be selfish and get a dog I want rather than one I am going to be able to 100% care for! I am aware it is as much work/time as having a child!I hope you realise all the advice being given is because we love all dogs. I feel sure no one is being judgemental but like other posters I think your dog should live in the house. Being downstairs they can smell and probably hear you too. This means they are still part of the pack. Being out of the house, however luxurious, means they are separated from you (their pack) with the potential for separation anxiety.
Our first dog was a rescue collie. I don't think they are ideal as a first dog. They need mental stimulation, in my opinion, more than physical. With the constant demands on our tme nowadays it is very easy to not give enough stimulation and then the rot sets in. Collies also come with a wide range of characteristics, from incredibly laid back to full on manic. Some of these traits do not materialise until they mature.
My advice is a rescue, goldie or cockerpoo. The last two seem the most biddable
Finally, thanks for asking our opinions. You sound as though you are taking our views and experience on board. This should only lead to happy owners and the first of many happy dogs. Good luck.
Thanks for explaining the dog sleeping in the house, I didn't realise that they like to hear/smell you constantly! (The wife says I smell, I am a quiet sleeper though
)I will be looking into the rescue dogs locally as many of you have posted that, there is a dogs trust site 10 mins away!
100% taking views and thoughts on board, looks like the dog will have to sleep in the house and will be looking into this separation anxiety!
I have dogs, and they sleep in the house. I couldn't imagine them sleeping in an outbuilding.
But...lots of dogs do live this way, i.e., outside in kennels etc. We in the UK have become very soppy with our dogs in the past 30 years or so. For example, a couple of generations ago, we would not have bought cars that were suitable for our pets, and most likely not have taken them with us to visit family and friends etc.
Go to places, for example like Greece or Ireland, there are many dogs living in outbuildings and are not allowed in the main house. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that we in the UK (and America and so on) have moved on from this but there are still people out there that have the mindset of previous generations.
Vast amount of generalisation here but I'm sure you appreciate my sentiments.
PS - edit to add: lots of working dogs still live in outbuildings.
But...lots of dogs do live this way, i.e., outside in kennels etc. We in the UK have become very soppy with our dogs in the past 30 years or so. For example, a couple of generations ago, we would not have bought cars that were suitable for our pets, and most likely not have taken them with us to visit family and friends etc.
Go to places, for example like Greece or Ireland, there are many dogs living in outbuildings and are not allowed in the main house. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that we in the UK (and America and so on) have moved on from this but there are still people out there that have the mindset of previous generations.
Vast amount of generalisation here but I'm sure you appreciate my sentiments.
PS - edit to add: lots of working dogs still live in outbuildings.
Edited by MYOB on Wednesday 1st March 14:52
MYOB said:
I have dogs, and they sleep in the house. I couldn't imagine them sleeping in an outbuilding.
But...lots of dogs do live this way. We in the UK have become very soppy with our dogs in the past 30 years or so. For example, a couple of generations ago, we would not have bought cars that were suitable for our pets, and most likely not have taken them with us to visit family and friends etc.
Go to places, for example like Greece or Ireland, there are many dogs living in outbuildings and are not allowed in the main house. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that we in the UK (and America and so on) have moved on from this but there are still people out there that have the mindset of previous generations.
Vast amount of generalisation here but I'm sure you appreciate my sentiments.
Yeah I see what your sayingBut...lots of dogs do live this way. We in the UK have become very soppy with our dogs in the past 30 years or so. For example, a couple of generations ago, we would not have bought cars that were suitable for our pets, and most likely not have taken them with us to visit family and friends etc.
Go to places, for example like Greece or Ireland, there are many dogs living in outbuildings and are not allowed in the main house. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that we in the UK (and America and so on) have moved on from this but there are still people out there that have the mindset of previous generations.
Vast amount of generalisation here but I'm sure you appreciate my sentiments.
joshcowin said:
Everything OK mate? I will ignore the stupidity in the last paragraph, maybe at that stage your brain prolapsed!!
I am an adult thanks for your opinion don't have another meltdown if I ignore it!
Everybody else has been really helpful and opened my eyes a little, thanks.
I'm grand thanks, it's just my sense of humour. I am an adult thanks for your opinion don't have another meltdown if I ignore it!
Everybody else has been really helpful and opened my eyes a little, thanks.
You can ignore whatever you want, but for your own benefit I would ask you try and dismiss on the basis of fact, rather than because you don't like what I'm saying, or how I say it.
Just that last paragraph you have taken exception to. The fact is that getting a dog to live outside, whilst addressing it's emotional and other psychological needs can be difficult. Warning you against it, owing to your lack of expertise, and apparent willingness to ignore consensus, isn't stupid.
I would similarly caution you against counter arguments, based on "that's what so and so did", or "that's what we did in the old days". Obviously to engage in anything on that basis would be definition of stupidity.
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