XL Bully

[LRDefender]

Simpo Two said:

LRDefender said:

If any new legislation is introduced we need to be able to enforce it appropriately. Therefore more funding for more police and punishment that serves as a deterrent.

Perhaps we need to think of dogs more like the way cars are treated. Cars have to be taxed and insured (and you need to pass a test before you can use one). If they're not, they get taken away and either impounded or crushed.

So funding for all these grand proposals can come from a dog tax. Every dog is licensed and taxed and insured against third party damage; if one if found untaxed/uninsured you impound the dog and crush the owner. Owzat?

Or you could do it the Roman style. Put all the miscreants and their dogs into a big ring and enjoy the popcorn.

Let’s not forget how many untaxed cars are on the road, or unsafe cars are on the road, or uninsured drivers there are on the road….

If we can’t enforce the above how will we enforce ne’er do wells with their pugnacious pooches?

[LJF_97]

LRDefender said:

Simpo Two said:

LRDefender said:

If any new legislation is introduced we need to be able to enforce it appropriately. Therefore more funding for more police and punishment that serves as a deterrent.

Perhaps we need to think of dogs more like the way cars are treated. Cars have to be taxed and insured (and you need to pass a test before you can use one). If they're not, they get taken away and either impounded or crushed.

So funding for all these grand proposals can come from a dog tax. Every dog is licensed and taxed and insured against third party damage; if one if found untaxed/uninsured you impound the dog and crush the owner. Owzat?

Or you could do it the Roman style. Put all the miscreants and their dogs into a big ring and enjoy the popcorn.

Let’s not forget how many untaxed cars are on the road, or unsafe cars are on the road, or uninsured drivers there are on the road….

If we can’t enforce the above how will we enforce ne’er do wells with their pugnacious pooches?

By that logic we should ban all cars as well then?......

[LRDefender]

LJF_97 said:

By that logic we should ban all cars as well then?......

The point I was trying to make is we don’t have the resources to police what we have to deal with at the moment, introducing more legislation that would require active policing on the scale of doggo breeding/licensing etc isn’t gonna work.

I am open to hear your suggestion on how all of this would be policed?

[Muzzer79]

LRDefender said:

I am open to hear your suggestion on how all of this would be policed?

Revenue from licensing funds policing.

[LRDefender]

Muzzer79 said:

Revenue from licensing funds policing.

Do you think the revenue from motorists has stopped uninsured drivers? Or untaxed drivers? Or banned drivers from driving? I could go on but I think you get the idea.

[Chubbyross]

It’s pointless banning them. As has been said by others, the usual scumbags will just move onto another breed. Sadly you can’t legislate against morons. The best way forward would be to start heavily licensing breeders and bring in massive fines - and I mean fines that would really scare - for those who flout the law.

[Muzzer79]

LRDefender said:

Muzzer79 said:

Revenue from licensing funds policing.

Do you think the revenue from motorists has stopped uninsured drivers? Or untaxed drivers? Or banned drivers from driving? I could go on but I think you get the idea.

Of course it hasn't, but you will never be 100% free of any crime in a free state, regardless of what resources you throw at it.

The point is that licensing will reduce the number of cretins walking around with ill-bred dogs, just as RFL (amongst other taxes) has reduced the number of uninsured and untaxed drivers.

We don't ban cars because they kill (x) number of people a year in road accidents. We enforce licensing and insurance for the drivers and punish them if they don't drive responsibly.

If we currently had no licensing and no insurance for motorists, would we say it's pointless to introduce it because it won't stop road deaths or uninsured drivers?

[PH5121]

Bullybutt said:

I volunteer with a bulldog rescue charity. We are asked daily, many times over, to take xl bully’s.

My brother in law bought an American bulldog puppy last summer after his old Staffy died. The Staffy was a lovely dog (and I don't like dogs generally).
His partner is now pregnant and they are trying to get rid of the dog as they are apprehensive about how the dog will be around the baby.
It cost him £2000 last year and they cannot give it away.

I know that an American bulldog is not the same as an American bully or XL bully, but they are big intimidating dogs that people are worried to have.
My brother in law bought a cute little puppy, now it has grown it isn't aggressive, but it is daft, it is enthusiaitic and jumps up wanting attention.
My wife who grew up with dogs and wants one won't entertain it as it hasn't been socialised or trained to be around dogs or people.

It's a shame as they are considering having to put it down as they cannot find anyone or anywhere that wants it.

[Muzzer79]

PH5121 said:

Bullybutt said:

I volunteer with a bulldog rescue charity. We are asked daily, many times over, to take xl bully’s.

My brother in law bought an American bulldog puppy last summer after his old Staffy died. The Staffy was a lovely dog (and I don't like dogs generally).
His partner is now pregnant and they are trying to get rid of the dog as they are apprehensive about how the dog will be around the baby.
It cost him £2000 last year and they cannot give it away.

I know that an American bulldog is not the same as an American bully or XL bully, but they are big intimidating dogs that people are worried to have.
My brother in law bought a cute little puppy, now it has grown it isn't aggressive, but it is daft, it is enthusiaitic and jumps up wanting attention.
My wife who grew up with dogs and wants one won't entertain it as it hasn't been socialised or trained to be around dogs or people.

It's a shame as they are considering having to put it down as they cannot find anyone or anywhere that wants it.

Therein lies the problem.

I'd be hesitant to take a Labrador that hadn't been socialised or trained to be around dogs or people, let alone a bulldog.

[deadslow]

PH5121 said:

Bullybutt said:

I volunteer with a bulldog rescue charity. We are asked daily, many times over, to take xl bully’s.

My brother in law bought an American bulldog puppy last summer after his old Staffy died. The Staffy was a lovely dog (and I don't like dogs generally).
His partner is now pregnant and they are trying to get rid of the dog as they are apprehensive about how the dog will be around the baby.
It cost him £2000 last year and they cannot give it away.

I know that an American bulldog is not the same as an American bully or XL bully, but they are big intimidating dogs that people are worried to have.
My brother in law bought a cute little puppy, now it has grown it isn't aggressive, but it is daft, it is enthusiaitic and jumps up wanting attention.
My wife who grew up with dogs and wants one won't entertain it as it hasn't been socialised or trained to be around dogs or people.

It's a shame as they are considering having to put it down as they cannot find anyone or anywhere that wants it.

your brother-in-law should get his nuts cracked for buying a big dog and failing to train it.

[PH5121]

deadslow said:

your brother-in-law should get his nuts cracked for buying a big dog and failing to train it.

I agree, a lesson that will cost him £2000 and poor Luna (the dog) possibly her life.

Edited by PH5121 on Thursday 14th September 16:21

[Thevet]

So, I read the first post or two, unsurprisingly skipped through to the last page, and cannot believe that ppl are arguing over uninsured drivers. Put this in the context of me loving big devil dogs, and I think that bully xls should be banned as it is the popularity of a breed combined with the typical gene pool of the typical parents with that of the prospective owners that drives this problem.
Backtrack 40 years and my 1st boss told me the worst behaved dog of his first years, were rough collies.....due to Lassie! Overbreeding due to potential profit drove a wave of awful dogs.
Still, this misses the point of the owners, and too many of the dog owning population just don't realise how a dog demand control in a pack.
So many people buy a dog thinking its just a simple accessory, it's not, many people should not own dogs, they can't afford them, they can't accept the challenges and potential rewards without arguing.
Pit bulls should have never been imported, but we had a lovely rescue pittie, would I go and buy one? No.
We have a lovely Rottie who wouldn't hurt child or burglar, but that is partly due to breeding from good people. Bully XLs are at the moment breed far too much by sadly reprobate people, such as the chap Scott Bennet of either Platinum Vets or Elite Vets who is now in jail for 5 years for drug dealing, they recommend and breed bully xls and regularly crop their ears, after which you get a free delivery of classA or B as you wish. This is the cause of such irrelevant breeds, asshole people with 50 kg of fighting dog.
Ban this breed or understand that the mentally deficient side of humanity will buy them as it makes them look important and so result in more savage attacks.

[loquacious]

My neighbours (over the road) fell in love with my Labrador pup (when she was 8 weeks old, she's now 18 months) and the lass desperately wanted a dog, preferably a Lab or a Golden Retriever. They got an XL Bully, a dog I'd never even heard of before they got theirs.

Now, Bella (my Lab) adores Gigi (the Bully) and they get on fantastically well but, she's about 14 months old now and HUGE! Her neck is bigger than my waist and she is strong. The owners don't take her out very much and she is left alone apart from a 'dog walker' who comes a couple of times a week.

The other day, Bella wandered over to see her 'mate' and they were chatting (do dogs chat?) through the gate, I followed to say hello and Gigi was bored beyond belief and had all the post shredded by the gate, several expensive looking cushions on the floor with bits out of them. I said 'Hello' to the dog and I was scared. Not terrified, but I definitely felt apprehensive stroking her through the gate, something I'd done a hundred times before.

Just something about the way the dog looked at me, freaked me out (a bit) and I've stopped Bella from going over ever since. The dog is/was lovely but she is BIG and she is bored, which to me spells the potential for trouble.

[okgo]

So as per usual it’s the owner. A council type with limited brain power by chance? Even a small dog (beagle or something) would wreck your house if you didn’t stimulate it all day; they shouldn’t have any dog.

[Thevet]

loquacious said:

My neighbours (over the road) fell in love with my Labrador pup (when she was 8 weeks old, she's now 18 months) and the lass desperately wanted a dog, preferably a Lab or a Golden Retriever. They got an XL Bully, a dog I'd never even heard of before they got theirs.

Now, Bella (my Lab) adores Gigi (the Bully) and they get on fantastically well but, she's about 14 months old now and HUGE! Her neck is bigger than my waist and she is strong. The owners don't take her out very much and she is left alone apart from a 'dog walker' who comes a couple of times a week.

The other day, Bella wandered over to see her 'mate' and they were chatting (do dogs chat?) through the gate, I followed to say hello and Gigi was bored beyond belief and had all the post shredded by the gate, several expensive looking cushions on the floor with bits out of them. I said 'Hello' to the dog and I was scared. Not terrified, but I definitely felt apprehensive stroking her through the gate, something I'd done a hundred times before.

Just something about the way the dog looked at me, freaked me out (a bit) and I've stopped Bella from going over ever since. The dog is/was lovely but she is BIG and she is bored, which to me spells the potential for trouble.

neighbours take on an XL bully rather than a lab!! have a child, scares other neghbours= stupid people rather than dogs always waiting for a stuoid and awful outcome. My advice is move away.
I understand how dogs can be scary as per my pooch but he doesn't get out of control nor shows aggression EVER, and will never be allowed to get out of control EVER. Some people just don't understand what 30-40-50kg of aggresion is like. Some people dont understand how much some monsters just want a home, but if you want to stop dog attacks without stopping aholes, you have to restrict their access to potentially dangerous fashion statements. I do wish we could stop some people breeding rather than the animals they desire.

[Magnum 475]

I'm not a dog expert.

But I'd like to understand how much is nature (the way a breed is wired) and how much is nurture (training, exercise, ensuring the dog isn't bored) etc.

My in-laws have Carpathian Shepherd Dogs. They have a fearsome reputation; their main purpose in life traditionally being to guard flocks of sheep from bears, wolves, and occasionally people.

But the in-laws dogs are anything but fierce. They're huge, but gentle with people and kids and incredibly laid back. They also have a few acres of fields to run around in, rarely go on leads, and get plenty of exercise. Add to that they've been socialised with people, cats, other dogs, since they were puppies, and the end result is not the scary fierce Carpathian Shepherd, but a (huge) cute friendly dog.

So - nature, or nurture? Are some dog breeds just 'bad', or is down to how they're raised and looked after??

[Boom78]

Magnum 475 said:

So - nature, or nurture? Are some dog breeds just 'bad', or is down to how they're raised and looked after??

I’m a dog owner and had all sorts over the years. Certain breeds have traits; sheepdogs like to herd/work, GSDs like to protect, Viszlas like to point, springers like to flush. You can tame these natural traits out of the dog as part of their training if you so wish.

The issue with these bully XL things is there’s no selective breeding going on other than selecting the biggest muscley dog, no consideration made on temperament, possibly quite the opposite; select biggest meanest dogs to breed. There shouldn't be any surprise the combo of the offspring plus scummy owners creates a nightmare situation.

[LJF_97]

XL Bullies are to be banned in the UK.

Which dogs will the scrotes choose now?

[bogie]

In practical terms what happens when bans take effect ?

do they just let the current generation die out and its illegal to breed/import more ?

Do the dogs have to be put to sleep and owners compensated ?

[Thevet]

Magnum 475 said:

I'm not a dog expert.

But I'd like to understand how much is nature (the way a breed is wired) and how much is nurture (training, exercise, ensuring the dog isn't bored) etc.

My in-laws have Carpathian Shepherd Dogs. They have a fearsome reputation; their main purpose in life traditionally being to guard flocks of sheep from bears, wolves, and occasionally people.

But the in-laws dogs are anything but fierce. They're huge, but gentle with people and kids and incredibly laid back. They also have a few acres of fields to run around in, rarely go on leads, and get plenty of exercise. Add to that they've been socialised with people, cats, other dogs, since they were puppies, and the end result is not the scary fierce Carpathian Shepherd, but a (huge) cute friendly dog.

So - nature, or nurture? Are some dog breeds just 'bad', or is down to how they're raised and looked after??

Nature predominantly, massively in bred type of fighting dog vs a dog bred (but relatively unpopular as it isn't aggressive) to protect its pack. At least the owner of the dog in the last fatal attack is being charged with manslaughter.