Holiday damage deposit, cracked the pan !
Discussion
Hi,
Don't want to make a fuss if we are being unreasonable so thought i would get some other opinions from the PistonHead experts.
Last week we rented a luxury barn near Tenby in Wales, cost us £1200 with a £300 damage deposit on top of this.
Whilst there my Brother in Law sat on the loo (no jokes please as he feels really bad about it) he is not heavy and was not doing anthing he should not have been, basically whilst sitting there suddenly a almighty bang and the toilet seat was cracked.
As this was our second day we emailed the owners (who live in the USA) with a photo telling them what has happened. They arranged for a new seat to be delivered which arrived later in the week.
I have chased the deposit and have just had a email from the owners saying they will deduct £110 for the seat and £50 for labour.
My thoughts are,
1/ £50 labour for presumably 2 bolts, i would have fitted it myself in 10 minutes if i had known they would charge this and i assume they are having to get a tradesperson in to do the job as they live the other side of the world instead of fitting it themselves, is this a reasonable charge as they choose to live so far away making it impossible to do the small job themselves.
2/ £110 is the cost of a same make/model replacement seat which i have compared online so no issues there but i am wondering should this come under breakages or not. Yes i understand the seat broke while we were there but what if the TV or washing machine stopped working or the central heating broke or there was a storm and the roof blew off whilst we were there, are we liable for absolutley everything that could go wrong as technically it's could all be classed as damage.
Where is the line drawn as to what we could be liable for, yes if we spilt wine over a carpet or broke glasses through being careless no problems but sitting on a toilet in the correct manner i am not sure,
Weve done all the toilet jokes so relevant replies please,
Martyn....
Don't want to make a fuss if we are being unreasonable so thought i would get some other opinions from the PistonHead experts.
Last week we rented a luxury barn near Tenby in Wales, cost us £1200 with a £300 damage deposit on top of this.
Whilst there my Brother in Law sat on the loo (no jokes please as he feels really bad about it) he is not heavy and was not doing anthing he should not have been, basically whilst sitting there suddenly a almighty bang and the toilet seat was cracked.
As this was our second day we emailed the owners (who live in the USA) with a photo telling them what has happened. They arranged for a new seat to be delivered which arrived later in the week.
I have chased the deposit and have just had a email from the owners saying they will deduct £110 for the seat and £50 for labour.
My thoughts are,
1/ £50 labour for presumably 2 bolts, i would have fitted it myself in 10 minutes if i had known they would charge this and i assume they are having to get a tradesperson in to do the job as they live the other side of the world instead of fitting it themselves, is this a reasonable charge as they choose to live so far away making it impossible to do the small job themselves.
2/ £110 is the cost of a same make/model replacement seat which i have compared online so no issues there but i am wondering should this come under breakages or not. Yes i understand the seat broke while we were there but what if the TV or washing machine stopped working or the central heating broke or there was a storm and the roof blew off whilst we were there, are we liable for absolutley everything that could go wrong as technically it's could all be classed as damage.
Where is the line drawn as to what we could be liable for, yes if we spilt wine over a carpet or broke glasses through being careless no problems but sitting on a toilet in the correct manner i am not sure,
Weve done all the toilet jokes so relevant replies please,
Martyn....
There was a thread on this, just a few weeks ago.
I'm afraid as a holiday property owner, I would certainly have been tempted to deduct the value of the toilet seat too. It is hard to imagine a scenario where a toilet seat is broken by normal use. Mind you, our toilet seats are more like €20... As much as it's the owner's responsibility to check the property for damage at the end, it is the renter's responsibility to check at the beginning for present damage.
£50 for labour is certainly taking the mick. Is it a simple double bolt job like almost every other toilet? Were you met by a key holder at the start of the rental? That's certainly a job they could have handled in 5 mins as part of the change-over. I would fight the £50, for sure.
I'm afraid as a holiday property owner, I would certainly have been tempted to deduct the value of the toilet seat too. It is hard to imagine a scenario where a toilet seat is broken by normal use. Mind you, our toilet seats are more like €20... As much as it's the owner's responsibility to check the property for damage at the end, it is the renter's responsibility to check at the beginning for present damage.
£50 for labour is certainly taking the mick. Is it a simple double bolt job like almost every other toilet? Were you met by a key holder at the start of the rental? That's certainly a job they could have handled in 5 mins as part of the change-over. I would fight the £50, for sure.
How much would you charge to drive across town, pick up the new seat, deliver it to the property and then fit it?
I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
Issi said:
How much would you charge to drive across town, pick up the new seat, deliver it to the property and then fit it?
I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
Agree on the costs . The "American"owners should have tested it 1st.I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
£50 call out/job fee for whoever fixes it. It won't be the old dear that changes the sheets and brandishes the Mr Sheen every Saturday.
£110 seems ludicrous for a loo seat but seeing as you agree that's how much that particular one is then I can't see how you're complaining.
Suck it up.
£110 seems ludicrous for a loo seat but seeing as you agree that's how much that particular one is then I can't see how you're complaining.
Suck it up.
Issi said:
How much would you charge to drive across town, pick up the new seat, deliver it to the property and then fit it?
I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
This.I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
Pay up and move on.
Ah - you mean seat not pan.
I would be fairly happy with that bill. As said above the seat broke 'in use' so there isn't really anything to argue there unless you can prove a defect etc. You could argue that a seat will deteriorate over the years and you have 'zeroed' that depreciation by buying a new one - but the working out of that is surely not worth it.
The price of the seat is not disputed so lets park that.
The labour seems high but bear in mind Wales is largely a big and remote place and the handyman will be expecting to either pick up the seat and come over and fit it or arrange some other mechanism whereby it is delivered to the cleaners etc and left at the premises for him to fit. Either is a pain (though not the end of the world) but will be time or fuel consuming to do.
I suppose the options were:
A) fit a new one and don't mention it
B) pay what is being asked and get on with your holiday
I personally would have done A - and in fact the owners might still be amenable to this? Bear in mind though many people barely have the ability to use a toilet, let alone fix one - so the owners might be keen for 'their man' to come and do the job so they are happy all is in order, especially given the place might be rented out the next week. Not your problem, I know, but just highlighting a possible reason behind the mindset.
I would be fairly happy with that bill. As said above the seat broke 'in use' so there isn't really anything to argue there unless you can prove a defect etc. You could argue that a seat will deteriorate over the years and you have 'zeroed' that depreciation by buying a new one - but the working out of that is surely not worth it.
The price of the seat is not disputed so lets park that.
The labour seems high but bear in mind Wales is largely a big and remote place and the handyman will be expecting to either pick up the seat and come over and fit it or arrange some other mechanism whereby it is delivered to the cleaners etc and left at the premises for him to fit. Either is a pain (though not the end of the world) but will be time or fuel consuming to do.
I suppose the options were:
A) fit a new one and don't mention it
B) pay what is being asked and get on with your holiday
I personally would have done A - and in fact the owners might still be amenable to this? Bear in mind though many people barely have the ability to use a toilet, let alone fix one - so the owners might be keen for 'their man' to come and do the job so they are happy all is in order, especially given the place might be rented out the next week. Not your problem, I know, but just highlighting a possible reason behind the mindset.
Martyn-123 said:
Whilst there my Brother in Law sat on the loo (no jokes please as he feels really bad about it) he is not heavy and was not doing anthing he should not have been, basically whilst sitting there suddenly a almighty bang and the toilet seat was cracked.
If that's really what happened then I would say you've met one of the many landlords who doesn't understand 'fair wear and tear'.When we rented a flat out, I would have replaced a broken toilet seat without charging anything. These things do break, and you can't expect a rented property to suffer no wear and tear at all: that's what you're earning rent for.
You'll end up paying the money though: they have your deposit. Just make sure you mention their MO on Tripadvisor.
Wacky Racer said:
Issi said:
How much would you charge to drive across town, pick up the new seat, deliver it to the property and then fit it?
I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
This.I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
Pay up and move on.
Just pay up.
£50 labour is reasonable, you might halved it with an oddjob handyman rather than a tradie but you can't expect them to go out their way and there's some urgentcy too if there's incoming.
£100 for a loo seat, especially one that falls apart is having a laugh. £20 would have done it.
my oh has a holiday flat and would probably have shrugged it off as wear and tear, bog seats do break.
£100 for a loo seat, especially one that falls apart is having a laugh. £20 would have done it.
my oh has a holiday flat and would probably have shrugged it off as wear and tear, bog seats do break.
You physically can't fit a standard bog seat to our Khazi, it has some odd captive nut arrangement, and I don't mean sitting down too quickly. New seats are £75 although I got Ideal Standard to cough up two free ones as I argued that, whilst ample, my arse simply isn't large enough to cause end-of-life for a nearly new seat.
was the let through an agency or direct with the owner?
I ask as I have rented many properties via both
Agencies pretty much never ask for a bond whilst most private lets do
I have NEVER had any aggro from an agent whereas I have regularly had quibbles and threats of bond deductions from private lets such that I dont bother any more
Back on topic, the labour is fair but the bog seat cost is a mickey take
Cheers
whoami said:
Wacky Racer said:
Issi said:
How much would you charge to drive across town, pick up the new seat, deliver it to the property and then fit it?
I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
This.I'd say £50.00 was more than reasonable, would you expect somebody to do it for a tenner?
As to the toilet seat, your friend sat on it and it broke, therefore he broke it and is liable to pay for the replacement.
I don't understand why you are trying to weasel out of this?
Pay up and move on.
Just pay up.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
As these chaps say. It's a bit unfortunate but if this is the cost to put the owner back into the position he was in before you moved in then pay up and say sorry for the hassle. I really don't quite see what your beef is.
Oli.
The beef is that it broke through wear and tear / reaching the end of its life, rather than a typical example of damage by a renter. Oli.
I own holiday rental properties and the problem is nobody says "I dropped an ashtray and it smashed" - they bag it and bin it and hope you don't notice. So the landlord probably thinks someone fell on the toilet when drunk. Or stood on it to look out of a window or something.
I'm not sure why people think renters deposits should be used to replace things that have simply fallen apart or stopped working due to end of life - but like said above its near impossible for the landlord to argue the point with a dishonest renter.
The reality here is the owner already has your money so there is zero you can do about it. If you hadn't paid yet then it would be the other way around - nobody is going to court over a toilet seat. Especially when one party is USA based. So its not worth stressing over as you simply can't do anything about it.
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