Who is going skiing and where 2015?
Discussion
Definitely don't recommend trying to do a whole day's lesson in one go! You'll get frustrated and a lot of skiing is just consolidation anyway, where you take what you learnt from your lesson and go out and practise and practise it. No point paying for that sort of time.
From your situation, sounds like you'd be best off in a class in the mornings and then meeting up with your mates in the afternoons like you say. Very similar to what happened with me when I first learned and had a bunch of very adept skiing pals. Plus, if they want particularly want to do a nuts bit of offpiste or a black and you don't, you can always hook up with one of your new found pals from skischool, or agree to rendezvous at a lift further down the hill where you can head down a blue or a red and they get to play.
From your situation, sounds like you'd be best off in a class in the mornings and then meeting up with your mates in the afternoons like you say. Very similar to what happened with me when I first learned and had a bunch of very adept skiing pals. Plus, if they want particularly want to do a nuts bit of offpiste or a black and you don't, you can always hook up with one of your new found pals from skischool, or agree to rendezvous at a lift further down the hill where you can head down a blue or a red and they get to play.
Nezquick said:
Great - thanks.
There's 6 of us going but the other 5 are all decent skiers/boarders so they won't need any lessons. So....i'll be in the lessons on my own for the 2 hours in the morning but will be meeting them after the lessons to hit the slopes with them. That way, I won't interfere too much with their decent ski sessions and they won't feel they have to hang around and wait for me while I fall over a lot. It seems like a good compromise.
Need to get a ski jacket/trousers sorted and then book those lessons I reckon.
Quick question though - is it better to learn all in one day (i.e. an 8 hour lesson) or would you recommend 3 or 4, 2 hour lessons over a few weeks?
BASI qualified instructor here.There's 6 of us going but the other 5 are all decent skiers/boarders so they won't need any lessons. So....i'll be in the lessons on my own for the 2 hours in the morning but will be meeting them after the lessons to hit the slopes with them. That way, I won't interfere too much with their decent ski sessions and they won't feel they have to hang around and wait for me while I fall over a lot. It seems like a good compromise.
Need to get a ski jacket/trousers sorted and then book those lessons I reckon.
Quick question though - is it better to learn all in one day (i.e. an 8 hour lesson) or would you recommend 3 or 4, 2 hour lessons over a few weeks?
Thing to remember is we all learn in different ways/rate. Any time you can spend in ‘a fridge’ prior to your holiday will be time well spent IMO. The main brand-Xscape with several UK locations do/did half a day learn to ski lessons whilst Chill Factor do or did learn to ski in a day. You can also do a taster. Some people like the rigidity of lessons other learn more by ‘having a go’. Only you can decide what works better for you but if you plan to stick with it (no doubt you will as it’s awesome!) there’s a lot to be said for not getting into bad habits!
If Chill Factor is your closet then do there full day thing, you’ll learn all the stuff you don’t need to waste precious holiday time on like putting your boots on, clipping into skis etc. At the end of that you may want more lessons or just crack on a bit on your own.
In resort 1:1 IMHO are the way to go. You may join the ESF snake but you won’t necessarily learn much by following the instructor. I’ve delivered both 1:1 training and groups and I can do infinitely more (obviously) with an individual than a group and tailor the lesson to their requirements/weaknesses. That’s not to say initially group ideas are a bad idea to learn a bit in a more controlled environment and there’s a social element to this too. You need to be specific what you want to get the most out of 1:1 lessons and to be honest different ski schools and individual instructors all have their own ideas/format. In a 1:1 lesson as a beginner I’d take a look at your skiing then take it from there. Skiing should be fun so my focus is to get people to a recreational standard where they can enjoy the mountain rather than being too heavy on technique.
If you’re reasonably fit and put in some time in the fridge you should be able to get around fine in your first day i.e get immediately onto blues and get more skiing done in 10 minutes than you would in several hours indoors.
Thanks a311.
I'm definitely going to get to Chill Factor (it's only 30 mins from me) and sort some lessons out - get all the basics out of the way first. I've already done a taster session and that did whet my appetite a bit!
I was just concerned about a full 8 hour lesson being a bit over-facing and getting more and more knackered as the day went on.
I'll look into a few 1:1's in Morzine and see what I can find.
I'm definitely going to get to Chill Factor (it's only 30 mins from me) and sort some lessons out - get all the basics out of the way first. I've already done a taster session and that did whet my appetite a bit!
I was just concerned about a full 8 hour lesson being a bit over-facing and getting more and more knackered as the day went on.
I'll look into a few 1:1's in Morzine and see what I can find.
//j17 said:
Learning To Ski
1. I'd always say ski school over individual lessons for the first 2 weeks on skis. There's not really THAT much to learn but it takes a lot of practice and you might as well share the cost of someone telling you; to 'bend your knees', not to 'sit on your skis' and to 'get your weight over the front of the skis' with some other people. It's also good to be with other people in the same boat.
2. Dress warmer than you think you need to and warmer than your skiing friends. They will be on the move most of the time so generating heat and keeping warm. In ski school, and even private beginner lessions you will spent a lot of time standing around listening/watching others and even when you are on the move it's not going to be that arobic to start with. Being cold won't make it any more fun.
Each to their own but I totally disagree with both those points. Individual lessons every time and as for dressing warmer....sure your experienced friends will be moving around more but learning to ski in the first few days is more about effort than technique....I can't ever remember being cold when I was learning. Also experienced skiers travel faster so they need insulation for that cold "wind" ! 1. I'd always say ski school over individual lessons for the first 2 weeks on skis. There's not really THAT much to learn but it takes a lot of practice and you might as well share the cost of someone telling you; to 'bend your knees', not to 'sit on your skis' and to 'get your weight over the front of the skis' with some other people. It's also good to be with other people in the same boat.
2. Dress warmer than you think you need to and warmer than your skiing friends. They will be on the move most of the time so generating heat and keeping warm. In ski school, and even private beginner lessions you will spent a lot of time standing around listening/watching others and even when you are on the move it's not going to be that arobic to start with. Being cold won't make it any more fun.
//j17 said:
Learning To Ski
3. Learning to ski starts in the hire shop, not on the slope. If you're boots don't fit well they will hamper your skiing and slow your rate of improvement. Too loose and you won't have full control off the skis so won't trust and commit to them. Too tight and they will hurt so you won't move correctly and make the skis work.
- Open all the clips and slide your foot in. Stand up and rock backwards and forwards on to your heals. The idea here is to get your heal correctly located in the back of the boot.
- Toe clips come next but should be secure, not tight. You should be able to flick them open with your index finger. Go tighter and all you do is restrict blood flow to your toes => cold toes.
- The 2 calf clips should be tight but not painfully so.
- With everything done up rock forward in your boots. You heal shouldn't lift.
If your heal lifts/they are painfully tight/etc ask for a different pair!
If you find your heal lifts or they are painful out on the slopes go back to the hire shop and ask for a different pair!
4. Don't go for the cheapest hire skis because you're a beginner so better skis would be wasted/a waste or money. In general (though sadly not always) the more you pay the newer and better condition the skis will be in - and as a beginner a really good set of edges will give you so much more faith in the skis...and when you trust the skis you commit over the fronts more and they work even better.
Disagree with both these points as a boot fitter and ski tech...3. Learning to ski starts in the hire shop, not on the slope. If you're boots don't fit well they will hamper your skiing and slow your rate of improvement. Too loose and you won't have full control off the skis so won't trust and commit to them. Too tight and they will hurt so you won't move correctly and make the skis work.
- Open all the clips and slide your foot in. Stand up and rock backwards and forwards on to your heals. The idea here is to get your heal correctly located in the back of the boot.
- Toe clips come next but should be secure, not tight. You should be able to flick them open with your index finger. Go tighter and all you do is restrict blood flow to your toes => cold toes.
- The 2 calf clips should be tight but not painfully so.
- With everything done up rock forward in your boots. You heal shouldn't lift.
If your heal lifts/they are painfully tight/etc ask for a different pair!
If you find your heal lifts or they are painful out on the slopes go back to the hire shop and ask for a different pair!
4. Don't go for the cheapest hire skis because you're a beginner so better skis would be wasted/a waste or money. In general (though sadly not always) the more you pay the newer and better condition the skis will be in - and as a beginner a really good set of edges will give you so much more faith in the skis...and when you trust the skis you commit over the fronts more and they work even better.
I'd get someone to clip the boot up completely differently. Put foot in, bang the heel and then do (assuming 4 clip boot) the 2nd clip first, this holds the heel in place. Then top clip, then the bottom 2 toe clips. Its hard to describe over text how to put a boot on properly and check it fits properly. If possible hire from an english company, then they can explain how it should fit and you can explain how it feels without any misunderstanding.
Also our 'level 1' skis are just as new as our 'level 4' skis. Some hire shops if you book more advanced skis will assume you've skied before, which means your DIN (binding release) settings will be higher and therefore risk of injury is a lot higher...
If you want me to explain anymore of this in detail message me.
Nezquick said:
Just booked a 2 day course at Chill Factore in November - 6 hours worth.
Hopefully, that will at least let me grasp the basics before heading onto the slopes for real.
Thanks for all the advice.
In the beginner lessons you may be in with some people who are to put it mildly are a bit athletically challenged……. Meaning you could find you’re doing a lot of waiting around but you could also be the one that people are waiting for.Hopefully, that will at least let me grasp the basics before heading onto the slopes for real.
Thanks for all the advice.
When it comes to gear you don’t really want the upper level of ski, gold, premium whatever they call them. The reason for this is I’d expect to a premium piste ski to be stiff, great for those who can work them to get the most out of them but not very forgiving for the beginners. You don’t want anything
I’m sure timlongs would never do this but I’ve seen a few too many times ski techs putting the DINS too high on skis. For example when I was away with two beginners one of the lads would blow over in a strong wind and his DINS were on 8!!!! Which roughly translates (I believe) to 80Kgs of force required to release-in other words you’ve no chance. It’s a reasonably simple equation based on weight and ability you can look online to get an idea-it’s always the first thing I check when with a group. Seen a nasty injury a few years ago when someone went down and when the binding should have released and didn’t.
Wrapping up. As a beginner particularly in your first lesson(s) you may be spending a lot of time dragging your arse up off the deck-so you will get warm. I ‘run hot’ and pretty much wear the same throughout the season unless it’s t-shirt weather…. It can get a bit nippy on the lifts in bad weather but if you’ve decent gear it should keep you dry and warm on the slopes.
Have fun and report back after your first lessons at Chill Factor!
ETA
Pop over to Snowheads and join up. I don’t know any instructors based out in that resort but someone on SH’s will and will be able to make a recommendation.
Edited by a311 on Wednesday 17th September 08:50
Sounds like plenty of advice so good luck with the lessons and holiday.
Agree that it is worth visiting the Snowheads forum were you are bound to get plenty more opinions.
Whichever route you go with the lessons in the resort you will learn and get lots of practice. There are +/- to both 1-1 and group lessons so it is a case of deciding what suits you best.
I originally learnt as part of a group (school ski trips) which means you get to meet new people and can be pushed a bit to go places that you might try to avoid or hold back on as an individual. The main negatives for me were obviously less direct time with instructor and if you find yourself towards the back you may just end up copying the person in front - try to stay towards front so you can hear clearly etc.
A few years ago my wife (who was a bit nervous) took up skiing and we found an American Instructor for 1-1 lessons. He charged the same price for 1 or 2 students and suggested I followed the class so that after the lesson I could help her practice. The time spent with the instructor was much more focused and I think much better from a purely learning point of view although possibly you may not be pushed to try slopes in the way that the group lessons do.
Although the lessons were initially for my wife the instructor completely transformed the way I skied and so we not both have lessons with him.
Agree that it is worth visiting the Snowheads forum were you are bound to get plenty more opinions.
Whichever route you go with the lessons in the resort you will learn and get lots of practice. There are +/- to both 1-1 and group lessons so it is a case of deciding what suits you best.
I originally learnt as part of a group (school ski trips) which means you get to meet new people and can be pushed a bit to go places that you might try to avoid or hold back on as an individual. The main negatives for me were obviously less direct time with instructor and if you find yourself towards the back you may just end up copying the person in front - try to stay towards front so you can hear clearly etc.
A few years ago my wife (who was a bit nervous) took up skiing and we found an American Instructor for 1-1 lessons. He charged the same price for 1 or 2 students and suggested I followed the class so that after the lesson I could help her practice. The time spent with the instructor was much more focused and I think much better from a purely learning point of view although possibly you may not be pushed to try slopes in the way that the group lessons do.
Although the lessons were initially for my wife the instructor completely transformed the way I skied and so we not both have lessons with him.
a311 said:
Nezquick said:
Just booked a 2 day course at Chill Factore in November - 6 hours worth.
Hopefully, that will at least let me grasp the basics before heading onto the slopes for real.
Thanks for all the advice.
In the beginner lessons you may be in with some people who are to put it mildly are a bit athletically challenged……. Meaning you could find you’re doing a lot of waiting around but you could also be the one that people are waiting for.Hopefully, that will at least let me grasp the basics before heading onto the slopes for real.
Thanks for all the advice.
When it comes to gear you don’t really want the upper level of ski, gold, premium whatever they call them. The reason for this is I’d expect to a premium piste ski to be stiff, great for those who can work them to get the most out of them but not very forgiving for the beginners. You don’t want anything
I’m sure timlongs would never do this but I’ve seen a few too many times ski techs putting the DINS too high on skis. For example when I was away with two beginners one of the lads would blow over in a strong wind and his DINS were on 8!!!! Which roughly translates (I believe) to 80Kgs of force required to release-in other words you’ve no chance. It’s a reasonably simple equation based on weight and ability you can look online to get an idea-it’s always the first thing I check when with a group. Seen a nasty injury a few years ago when someone went down and when the binding should have released and didn’t.
Wrapping up. As a beginner particularly in your first lesson(s) you may be spending a lot of time dragging your arse up off the deck-so you will get warm. I ‘run hot’ and pretty much wear the same throughout the season unless it’s t-shirt weather…. It can get a bit nippy on the lifts in bad weather but if you’ve decent gear it should keep you dry and warm on the slopes.
Have fun and report back after your first lessons at Chill Factor!
ETA
Pop over to Snowheads and join up. I don’t know any instructors based out in that resort but someone on SH’s will and will be able to make a recommendation.
Edited by a311 on Wednesday 17th September 08:50
DINs are more than just weight/ability. Boot size and height are also factored in. Just as important as having DINs set correct is having the forward pressure set correctly. Any ski tech should do this.
For our DIN settings, we put all your info into a computer and it works it out for us, this is for insurance and also accuracy reasons. I'd be wary of a ski tech just randomly sticking a screwdriver into a binding without referring to a chart/computer. I'd never recommend doing it yourself either.
One bit of advice, BUY GOOD GLOVES! Cold fingers are never ever good. Oh and never unclip your boots fully at lunchtime/on a lift. The blood will rush to your feet and they'll swell and make it worse. If they're uncomfy or don't fit properly, change them before you ski.
Anyway - whats everyones quiver this year? Heres mine:
2014 Line Sir Franics Bacon - 190cm mounted with Marker Squires. Got them at the start of last season and they are insanely good!
If we get a serious pow day, I'll take one of our Atomic Bent Chetlers out - we rent these out to customers but keep a pair for us!
And finally, my park skis. Line Traveling Circus, 178.
2014 Line Sir Franics Bacon - 190cm mounted with Marker Squires. Got them at the start of last season and they are insanely good!
If we get a serious pow day, I'll take one of our Atomic Bent Chetlers out - we rent these out to customers but keep a pair for us!
And finally, my park skis. Line Traveling Circus, 178.
[quote=timlongs]Anyway - whats everyones quiver this year? Heres mine:
2014 Line Sir Franics Bacon - 190cm mounted with Marker Squires. Got them at the start of last season and they are insanely good!
These are the skis I was looking at. I've got a pair of Scott Missions and some monster skis but just want something a bit more chuckable that I can ski everywhere on. Do you reckon these will cut the mustard?
2014 Line Sir Franics Bacon - 190cm mounted with Marker Squires. Got them at the start of last season and they are insanely good!
These are the skis I was looking at. I've got a pair of Scott Missions and some monster skis but just want something a bit more chuckable that I can ski everywhere on. Do you reckon these will cut the mustard?
NorthDave said:
timlongs said:
Anyway - whats everyones quiver this year? Heres mine:
2014 Line Sir Franics Bacon - 190cm mounted with Marker Squires. Got them at the start of last season and they are insanely good!
These are the skis I was looking at. I've got a pair of Scott Missions and some monster skis but just want something a bit more chuckable that I can ski everywhere on. Do you reckon these will cut the mustard?
Honestly the best skis ever, you don't really need anything else - unless you're going mega steep + deep.2014 Line Sir Franics Bacon - 190cm mounted with Marker Squires. Got them at the start of last season and they are insanely good!
These are the skis I was looking at. I've got a pair of Scott Missions and some monster skis but just want something a bit more chuckable that I can ski everywhere on. Do you reckon these will cut the mustard?
I'm 183cm tall and ski the 190s, they ski short so go longer than you think you'll need. About 5 of us in France ski them and love them, my Dad's mate who is well into his 60s has a pair and loves them!
They honestly do everything, powder, piste, ice, hardpack, crud, whatever. I mounted mine at recommended, 2cm back from centre is meant to be the 'best' place so when mine get a bit tired I might re-drill. My friend skis them centre and can throw 540s and backflips on them for fun.
I've got a pair of Rossignol Experience 98s, which are an awesome all-mountain ski and cover just about everything I need. Front rocker but not rear. Slightly more piste orientated, but still superb in the powder. They don't look much due to some conservative styling. They're also pretty fat at the tips, so there's a few of the telecabins that struggle to take them - anoch mor, super morzine etc and you have to split them or take them inside.
Work well on everything but the hardest packed of pistes, where last year I borrow a mate's pist orientated Elans and hired a pair of volkl tigersharks for that, both of which were just epic, although I did find the tigersharks a bit of an effort at the end of the day in softer snow.
Work well on everything but the hardest packed of pistes, where last year I borrow a mate's pist orientated Elans and hired a pair of volkl tigersharks for that, both of which were just epic, although I did find the tigersharks a bit of an effort at the end of the day in softer snow.
king excited and can't concentrate at work now 
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