China - The good and the bad
Discussion
My wife has always wanted to see the Terracotta Warriors at Xi'an therefore we are thinking of going to China later this year. Kuoni have a tour that seems to fit our wants - Beijing, Xi'an. Yangtze cruise and Shanghai. Having never been to the Far East before does anyone have any tips or advice, things to see, things to avoid, odd etiquette etc
TIA
TIA
We went a couple of years ago, booked through Trailfinders a similar trip but tailor made to add more nights here and there and remove the guided tour element so it was mostly independent. I found it interesting, but not my favourite holiday or Asian destination. Thailand I found to be friendlier for example, and a bit cheaper for nicer hotels.
Beijing is very interesting, but was completely covered in smog and pollution at the time we went, which wasn’t pleasant. The roads and subway were very very busy all the time! Loads to see though so make sure you have enough time there to see it all – Forbidden City, Summer Palace, loads of parks, temples, markets (make sure you haggle!), and of course the Great Wall. Would recommend not just going to the nearest bit of the wall which will be overcrowded. The Mutianyu section is accessible and quieter.
Xi’an – really not much to see apart from the Terracotta Warriors. Interesting ‘Muslim Quarter’ with food and other markets and quite a good atmosphere in the evening, and the city walls are worth a stroll, but not a lot else. Loads of construction work and skyscrapers going up, impressive levels of construction!
Shanghai is more modern, still with pockets of the old China but you can see they are fast disappearing. Head over to modern Pudong across the river for a choice of skyscrapers to ascend – we did The World Financial Centre, tallest at the time. Take in the view of tower blocks as far as the horizon! Found Shanghai more expensive to eat – especially in the trendy more Western Xintiandi area. We preferred the character of Beijing. Side trips to Suzhou and Hangzhou possible by train. Public transport including the subway is not that difficult to work out, but taxi drivers will need your destination written out in Chinese or requested by the hotel.
The Chinese themselves weren’t overly friendly, and most surprisingly given that we didn’t really venture off the tourist trail and were in what I thought to be more ‘global’ cities - we were something of a tourist attraction as non-Chinese faces are rare, and had to have quite a fiew photos taken!
Don’t go if you or the wife are squeamish about personal hygiene - Public loos outside of hotels are just holes in the ground and really stink. Hawking and spitting is a national habit, children don’t wear nappies etc. Everywhere is busy in the cities and attractions –public transport etc. They don’t do queuing so just get in there and push, but it can be a bit wearing.
Food can be a bit alien and can be hard to assess whether it looks like a decent place to eat and how it works, so we ate a lot in shopping mall food courts and hotels. Make sure you know how to use a pair of chopsticks.
Beijing is very interesting, but was completely covered in smog and pollution at the time we went, which wasn’t pleasant. The roads and subway were very very busy all the time! Loads to see though so make sure you have enough time there to see it all – Forbidden City, Summer Palace, loads of parks, temples, markets (make sure you haggle!), and of course the Great Wall. Would recommend not just going to the nearest bit of the wall which will be overcrowded. The Mutianyu section is accessible and quieter.
Xi’an – really not much to see apart from the Terracotta Warriors. Interesting ‘Muslim Quarter’ with food and other markets and quite a good atmosphere in the evening, and the city walls are worth a stroll, but not a lot else. Loads of construction work and skyscrapers going up, impressive levels of construction!
Shanghai is more modern, still with pockets of the old China but you can see they are fast disappearing. Head over to modern Pudong across the river for a choice of skyscrapers to ascend – we did The World Financial Centre, tallest at the time. Take in the view of tower blocks as far as the horizon! Found Shanghai more expensive to eat – especially in the trendy more Western Xintiandi area. We preferred the character of Beijing. Side trips to Suzhou and Hangzhou possible by train. Public transport including the subway is not that difficult to work out, but taxi drivers will need your destination written out in Chinese or requested by the hotel.
The Chinese themselves weren’t overly friendly, and most surprisingly given that we didn’t really venture off the tourist trail and were in what I thought to be more ‘global’ cities - we were something of a tourist attraction as non-Chinese faces are rare, and had to have quite a fiew photos taken!
Don’t go if you or the wife are squeamish about personal hygiene - Public loos outside of hotels are just holes in the ground and really stink. Hawking and spitting is a national habit, children don’t wear nappies etc. Everywhere is busy in the cities and attractions –public transport etc. They don’t do queuing so just get in there and push, but it can be a bit wearing.
Food can be a bit alien and can be hard to assess whether it looks like a decent place to eat and how it works, so we ate a lot in shopping mall food courts and hotels. Make sure you know how to use a pair of chopsticks.
We went to Shanghai on route to OZ we had a 24 hour stop over. We got the maglev into the city which passes through slums and some awful places there was a terrace of tower blocks which much have housed tens of thousands of people. I'm glad we were passing through this at Maglev speed!
The city suffers from very bad pollution and if your wife is blond with blue eyes it's not going to be a great stay the locals men will be looking!
24 hours was enough for us we saw the city sights, the locals and the filth!
The city suffers from very bad pollution and if your wife is blond with blue eyes it's not going to be a great stay the locals men will be looking!
24 hours was enough for us we saw the city sights, the locals and the filth!
I was in Beijing and Xian last year and really enjoyed the trip.
Both had appalling air quality - really polluted
As you get out of the big citys you see a very different place so it is worth trying to get out to smaller towns
If you are on a tour you shouldnt have any problems finding things to see in the citys
I had really wanted to see the terracotta warriors and wasnt disapointed, we also took a morning to hire bikes and ride around the top of the city wall at Xian.
Both had appalling air quality - really polluted
As you get out of the big citys you see a very different place so it is worth trying to get out to smaller towns
If you are on a tour you shouldnt have any problems finding things to see in the citys
I had really wanted to see the terracotta warriors and wasnt disapointed, we also took a morning to hire bikes and ride around the top of the city wall at Xian.
Philplop said:
A friend was in Beijing last week and said they had perfect clear blue skies and sunshine. Hopefully I will be as lucky when I go in a few weeks!
Don't count on it, Beijing is a truly horrific city in terms of pollution. Also traffic is terrible and people are rude and it's a shame people base their impression of China on the worst city in the country (IMO). Still, it's a must visit for the cultural sights and roast duck 
If I were you I'd try to head to places like Chengdu/Jiuzhaigou, Guilin, or climb one of the sacred mountains and just generally avoid the big cities. You'll find the people a lot nicer and everything will be much cheaper.
Hub said:
Food can be a bit alien and can be hard to assess whether it looks like a decent place to eat and how it works, so we ate a lot in shopping mall food courts and hotels.
Whatever you do, don't do this 
Food is one of the best things about China. Just go to a restaurant which you see lots of locals in and point at tasty things which other people are eating or pictures from the menu. Local restaurants will almost always be good as food is an important part of life there and any crappy restaurants would just go out of business.
Lastly, don't expect anyone to speak any English.
Back in 2010 we did Beijing, Xi'an, Chengdu, Guilin, Yangshuo, Guangzhou and Hong Kong in a trip that took 24 days. I planned this all myself so I booked all the accommodation/transport separately and made my own itinerary. We used plane/trains/buses to get between each place.
China itself is a fascinating country and you normally are surprised by things every day. We didn’t find people overly friendly but we did have quite a few English speaking Chinese people who would like to talk to us, usually about China and what we thought of the country. That said there were many occasions where we didn’t have a clue where we were so trusted people to guide us in the right direction (which they always did). The food is fantastic - only problem we had was that we liked to know what we were eating which can be a problems sometime and also don’t think that chicken means chicken as you know it here - it will contain meat but also likely to have other bits of the bird too.
Few tips:
- If you go to the Great Wall do not go to Badaling - this is very busy/commercial when I went in 2008. We took a day tour to Jinshanling - this is much quieter and there are sections where the wall has not been rebuilt; most of my photos have no people in them.
- In the markets you must haggle! Everything is overpriced so offer them 10 - 20% of what they ask for and this is all done by punching numbers into a calculator.
- The toilets were grim almost everywhere - try to go in malls/hotels if at all possible. On this trip I learnt just quite how long I can hang on for
- Public transport is hugely efficient and cheap so is an excellent way of getting round.
- If booking things yourself hostels are great places to stay. We stayed in a mixture of hotels and hostels and found those running the hostels to be much more helpful and friendly and were great in booking day excursions.
- Try and get out into the small towns/country - the parts around Yangshuo are truly beautiful and judging from the development going on when I was there I have no idea how long it will stay like that for.
- As people have said the pollution is bad – we didn’t see blue sky until we got to Chengdu apart from on the Great Wall.
- When travelling by taxi/booking tickets you will need where you are going written in Chinese
- Our guide book was invaluable to us – we felt if we lost it we would have been pretty stuck
- No tipping!
Out of our 24 days our favourite things were:
- Great Wall - Beijing
- Panda Sanctuary and Chinese theatre - Chengdu
- Dragon Backbone rice terraces - Guilin
- Leshan Big Buddha - Guilin
- Panjiayuan Market and Temple of Heaven – Beijing
- Summer Palace - Beijing
- Safari Park - Guangzhou
- River boat cruise - Guangzhou
- Li River trip
If you have any questions or want to see any photos about any of the places mentioned then let me know, I am happy to help out.
China itself is a fascinating country and you normally are surprised by things every day. We didn’t find people overly friendly but we did have quite a few English speaking Chinese people who would like to talk to us, usually about China and what we thought of the country. That said there were many occasions where we didn’t have a clue where we were so trusted people to guide us in the right direction (which they always did). The food is fantastic - only problem we had was that we liked to know what we were eating which can be a problems sometime and also don’t think that chicken means chicken as you know it here - it will contain meat but also likely to have other bits of the bird too.
Few tips:
- If you go to the Great Wall do not go to Badaling - this is very busy/commercial when I went in 2008. We took a day tour to Jinshanling - this is much quieter and there are sections where the wall has not been rebuilt; most of my photos have no people in them.
- In the markets you must haggle! Everything is overpriced so offer them 10 - 20% of what they ask for and this is all done by punching numbers into a calculator.
- The toilets were grim almost everywhere - try to go in malls/hotels if at all possible. On this trip I learnt just quite how long I can hang on for
- Public transport is hugely efficient and cheap so is an excellent way of getting round.
- If booking things yourself hostels are great places to stay. We stayed in a mixture of hotels and hostels and found those running the hostels to be much more helpful and friendly and were great in booking day excursions.
- Try and get out into the small towns/country - the parts around Yangshuo are truly beautiful and judging from the development going on when I was there I have no idea how long it will stay like that for.
- As people have said the pollution is bad – we didn’t see blue sky until we got to Chengdu apart from on the Great Wall.
- When travelling by taxi/booking tickets you will need where you are going written in Chinese
- Our guide book was invaluable to us – we felt if we lost it we would have been pretty stuck
- No tipping!
Out of our 24 days our favourite things were:
- Great Wall - Beijing
- Panda Sanctuary and Chinese theatre - Chengdu
- Dragon Backbone rice terraces - Guilin
- Leshan Big Buddha - Guilin
- Panjiayuan Market and Temple of Heaven – Beijing
- Summer Palace - Beijing
- Safari Park - Guangzhou
- River boat cruise - Guangzhou
- Li River trip
If you have any questions or want to see any photos about any of the places mentioned then let me know, I am happy to help out.
Shaoxter said:
Philplop said:
A friend was in Beijing last week and said they had perfect clear blue skies and sunshine. Hopefully I will be as lucky when I go in a few weeks!
Don't count on it, Beijing is a truly horrific city in terms of pollution. Shaoxter said:
Still, it's a must visit for the roast duck
I had the best duck I have ever had at "Made in China". I would recommend but book ahead.For those going independently get in contact with Lily. She is a tour guide that is fantastic and does not try and rip you off. You can find her reviews on tripadvisor.
We have visited many roastduck places, and the one which seems to stand out for good Food was DA DONG DUCK, in Beijing.
http://www.china.org.cn/travel/beijingguide/2011-0...
http://www.china.org.cn/travel/beijingguide/2011-0...
I've just got back from a few days in Beijing.
The weather was pretty good, hot with blue-ish skies. The sun didn't make much of an appearance through the haze, but you could definitely feel its heat, and the city never felt polluted.
I was pleasantly surprised with the people. Having lived in Macau for the last 8 months I haven't had the best impression of mainlanders in the casinos, but we encountered no rudeness, no pushing and shoving and much less spitting than I was expecting.
It was the cleanest place I've ever been to. No litter at all.
The subway was excellent and not particularly busy. Traffic wasn't too bad either, took an hour from the airport to the city centre in rush hour.
Went to the Temple of Heaven on a national holiday, and although it was busy it was hardly packed.
Nanluoguxiang was a nice old area with some cool little bars.
The Great Wall at Mutianyu was nice and quiet, can either get the cable car up and down, or a chairlift up and toboggan back down, which was good fun. We used a guide who was recommended to us who spoke perfect English and was chatty and obviously proud of his city and his new car, a nice comfy luxury 6-seater people carrier. He's more expensive that other guides but doesn't try to earn commission by taking you to jewellery shops and things which is apparently common practice, especially at the Badaling section of the wall. www.beijing-driver.com if you're interested.
And yet despite this quite positive review, I wasn't really keen on it.
There was nothing particularly wrong with it, it just didn't appeal to me like other places have done. Although I'd like to see the terracotta warriors, I'm not in a rush to head back to China.
The weather was pretty good, hot with blue-ish skies. The sun didn't make much of an appearance through the haze, but you could definitely feel its heat, and the city never felt polluted.
I was pleasantly surprised with the people. Having lived in Macau for the last 8 months I haven't had the best impression of mainlanders in the casinos, but we encountered no rudeness, no pushing and shoving and much less spitting than I was expecting.
It was the cleanest place I've ever been to. No litter at all.
The subway was excellent and not particularly busy. Traffic wasn't too bad either, took an hour from the airport to the city centre in rush hour.
Went to the Temple of Heaven on a national holiday, and although it was busy it was hardly packed.
Nanluoguxiang was a nice old area with some cool little bars.
The Great Wall at Mutianyu was nice and quiet, can either get the cable car up and down, or a chairlift up and toboggan back down, which was good fun. We used a guide who was recommended to us who spoke perfect English and was chatty and obviously proud of his city and his new car, a nice comfy luxury 6-seater people carrier. He's more expensive that other guides but doesn't try to earn commission by taking you to jewellery shops and things which is apparently common practice, especially at the Badaling section of the wall. www.beijing-driver.com if you're interested.
And yet despite this quite positive review, I wasn't really keen on it.
There was nothing particularly wrong with it, it just didn't appeal to me like other places have done. Although I'd like to see the terracotta warriors, I'm not in a rush to head back to China.I came back from Shanghai 6 weeks ago.
I'll quickly tell you this.
As above pollution is shocking.
The skyline is awesome especially at night.
Taxis are awful, dirty and I don't care how big your balls are their roadcraft is downright dangerous.
Food is nothing like Chinese over in the uk.
An experience but I can honestly say 6 days there was 4 days too much.
I wouldn't head back in a hurry.
I'll quickly tell you this.
As above pollution is shocking.
The skyline is awesome especially at night.
Taxis are awful, dirty and I don't care how big your balls are their roadcraft is downright dangerous.
Food is nothing like Chinese over in the uk.
An experience but I can honestly say 6 days there was 4 days too much.
I wouldn't head back in a hurry.
hi,
seems your adjustment to other cultures, is something you struggle with.
It is unfortunate you didnt open up more to such a great historic culture.
Its not for everyone.
Having lived there for 4 years, I would move back in a heart beat.
But saying that, I didnt live in Shanghai.
I lived in. Weifang, and certainly miss friends and culture there.
China being so immense, the variety of folk there is huge, and even Chinese fromtthe north, feel strange in south China.
The whole linguistics is very different.
Our time will come for our return.
vette
seems your adjustment to other cultures, is something you struggle with.
It is unfortunate you didnt open up more to such a great historic culture.
Its not for everyone.
Having lived there for 4 years, I would move back in a heart beat.
But saying that, I didnt live in Shanghai.
I lived in. Weifang, and certainly miss friends and culture there.
China being so immense, the variety of folk there is huge, and even Chinese fromtthe north, feel strange in south China.
The whole linguistics is very different.
Our time will come for our return.
vette
I will 2nd UK Vette, it is a huge country. I've lived in Hong Kong, Taiwan (depends on your political view) I don't care one way or the other, Shenzen, Guangzhou and now Daqing (google it) in the far North East of China, close to the border with Russia. Also, I have visted many more cities, most of them great. August 19th this year will mark 20 years of living in China.
Why do I post this, well the UK, when I was a student, I owned nice cars of the time, 4 stolen in three years, both my studies and my life were funded by myself. Walking down the street "what the **** are you looking at. yes in the UK things like car clubs and social activities are much easier to take part in.
But here is the deal, I have a house in Scotland, when I am home, the locals on learning I live in China ask, "do you have a car", "Yes" "how about mobile phone connection" "yes" "what about internet/wifi" "yes" and in this village I live in, mobile phone coverage, limited, wifi 2 places, that is it.
Buying tangibles, offer 20% of the asking price, always be happy when the price gets to a point you like, be friendly, and polite. If people smile when you are angry, they are not laughing at you, they are frightened. it is a lovely country, just not the same as yours
daqinggregg
Why do I post this, well the UK, when I was a student, I owned nice cars of the time, 4 stolen in three years, both my studies and my life were funded by myself. Walking down the street "what the **** are you looking at. yes in the UK things like car clubs and social activities are much easier to take part in.
But here is the deal, I have a house in Scotland, when I am home, the locals on learning I live in China ask, "do you have a car", "Yes" "how about mobile phone connection" "yes" "what about internet/wifi" "yes" and in this village I live in, mobile phone coverage, limited, wifi 2 places, that is it.
Buying tangibles, offer 20% of the asking price, always be happy when the price gets to a point you like, be friendly, and polite. If people smile when you are angry, they are not laughing at you, they are frightened. it is a lovely country, just not the same as yours
daqinggregg
Brilliant.
Daqing my wife's home town.
I guess you must have got to Harbin (Haerbin).
Wonderful cobbled walking street leading down to the Songhua river, by the Russian arch memorial?
We have many fantastic wedding photos by St. Sophia Cathedral, which as you probably know is ex. Russian .
vette
Daqing my wife's home town.
I guess you must have got to Harbin (Haerbin).
Wonderful cobbled walking street leading down to the Songhua river, by the Russian arch memorial?
We have many fantastic wedding photos by St. Sophia Cathedral, which as you probably know is ex. Russian .
vette
hi,
seems your adjustment to other cultures, is something you struggle with.
It is unfortunate you didnt open up more to such a great historic culture.
Its not for everyone.
Having lived there for 4 years, I would move back in a heart beat.
But saying that, I didnt live in Shanghai.
I lived in. Weifang, and certainly miss friends and culture there.
China being so immense, the variety of folk there is huge, and even Chinese fromtthe north, feel strange in south China.
The whole linguistics is very different.
Our time will come for our return.
vette
seems your adjustment to other cultures, is something you struggle with.
It is unfortunate you didnt open up more to such a great historic culture.
Its not for everyone.
Having lived there for 4 years, I would move back in a heart beat.
But saying that, I didnt live in Shanghai.
I lived in. Weifang, and certainly miss friends and culture there.
China being so immense, the variety of folk there is huge, and even Chinese fromtthe north, feel strange in south China.
The whole linguistics is very different.
Our time will come for our return.
vette
UK Vette, been to Harbin many times, I got married to Mrs. DG3 there, originally she is from Sichuan, but her family all moved to Daqing as I'm sure is the case with Mrs. UK Vette.
If and when you do return, you will not believe how much the city has grown, as is the case with most Chinese cities.
I don't think Daqing would appeal to most people, being mainly an oil city with a short history of just over 50 years and brutal winters, when it can dip below minus 20c to 30c for months on end, but l love this, seems to bring people together. Visit Iron Man Museam, to see how they toiled and I mean toiled to extract the oil.
This is the point, China is so huge, there is so much, most people only scratch the surface. Most major cities have their problems, Chinese cities are no different. However, if you look for the good things, there are so many.
And as I said before it is huge, I can fly for 5 hours and still be in China, it has a population nearly twice that of Europe and 20+ that of the UK, has some of the biggest mountain ranges in the world, some outstanding scenery, oh and did I tell you about the people, friendly, no gobby what the **** are you looking at. I nearly forgot the food, not all is great, but there are some gems to found e.g Beijing Duck, Guangdong wanton noodles and Char sui (honey BBQ roast pork) come with an open mind!
If and when you do return, you will not believe how much the city has grown, as is the case with most Chinese cities.
I don't think Daqing would appeal to most people, being mainly an oil city with a short history of just over 50 years and brutal winters, when it can dip below minus 20c to 30c for months on end, but l love this, seems to bring people together. Visit Iron Man Museam, to see how they toiled and I mean toiled to extract the oil.
This is the point, China is so huge, there is so much, most people only scratch the surface. Most major cities have their problems, Chinese cities are no different. However, if you look for the good things, there are so many.
And as I said before it is huge, I can fly for 5 hours and still be in China, it has a population nearly twice that of Europe and 20+ that of the UK, has some of the biggest mountain ranges in the world, some outstanding scenery, oh and did I tell you about the people, friendly, no gobby what the **** are you looking at. I nearly forgot the food, not all is great, but there are some gems to found e.g Beijing Duck, Guangdong wanton noodles and Char sui (honey BBQ roast pork) come with an open mind!
daqinggegg said:
UK Vette, been to Harbin many times, I got married to Mrs. DG3 there, originally she is from Sichuan, but her family all moved to Daqing as I'm sure is the case with Mrs. UK Vette.
If and when you do return, you will not believe how much the city has grown
My wife born in Harbin, so we married there.If and when you do return, you will not believe how much the city has grown
Then her family followed the oil industry, and moved to Daqing.
Daqing is so far off the tourist map, it is hard to believe any foreigner ever heard of the place.
Let me guess you also have wedding photos with St Sophia in the background ? .
Was back in Harbin and Daqing summer 2013.
So you will have been to the Flood Memorial, Harbin Ice and Snow festival, and Harbin tiger park, to name a few?
vette
Edited by uk_vette on Monday 18th May 17:03
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Arriving in Beijing makes one realise what a huge city it is.Something like 6 ring roads now?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep,How the other half lived with enough concubines to keep you from seeing daylight all week.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yeah, thats some thing that needs a mind set experience.But I guess when you need a serious crap, any toilets are good enough.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Them green and gold Hyundai Elantras, certainly shift,I think it is all about anticipation of other drivers, I didn't do much driving in Beijing, even though I had passed, and got a full Chinese driving licence,
did you notice the taxis all run on LPG.
Also there are no filling stations any where near built up areas.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That will have been Mutyanyu part of the wall. about 50 km away, nice ride in itself.anonymous said:
[redacted]
The underground service is first class, really very efficient.Have you managed to ride the line 2 (Red line) during rush hour, wow, what an experience, they have "pushers" who help you onto the train, so the doors can close, and the train can depart on time.
15 underground lines, or some thing like that, cant keep count, as the building work is relentless.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yeah, now imagin how folk will view you when and if you had chance to go to a really small village.Many Chinese folk in the villages, have never seen a westerner, and are naturally curious.
Friendly beyond belief.
vette
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