Our disgraceful National Airline
Discussion
GreatPretender said:
I think BA are at their best when you fly with them through T5 in >Club. I still maintain that their pods are a far and away nicer place to be than the equivalent Business offerings of all the other carriers, Etihad/Qatar/Malaysian included (with whom I fly quite often with).
On the other hand, BA really struggle with their long haul economy class, where you'll invariably be ignored by sour-faced, over-weight moosepigs, grapple with ancient and or broken IFE screens, and served crap food. IME, Etihad/Qatar are leagues ahead for their economy service, but I don't find their business class worth the huge price hike as a result.
In short, don't fly BA if you're poor
Whilst your final sentence is a bit toungue in cheek, there is a lot to that. As I said somewhere above if you are an infrequent economy class traveler your are not BAs bread & butter. They chase the regular long haul business traveler. On the other hand, BA really struggle with their long haul economy class, where you'll invariably be ignored by sour-faced, over-weight moosepigs, grapple with ancient and or broken IFE screens, and served crap food. IME, Etihad/Qatar are leagues ahead for their economy service, but I don't find their business class worth the huge price hike as a result.
In short, don't fly BA if you're poor
Many find BAs service off, as it doesn't match the fawning you get from ME & FE trollies. What I do find though is that most of BAs crews learn what you want & give it. They are professional. So for example if you are in Club they will serve drinks just after take off, up to & including the meal. Then stop. You will see some people then moan on the internet that there is no further drinks service. Simple go to the galley ask for another, they pick up this & keep your glass topped off for as long as you want with a personal service.
Strangely enough I've also found that more often than not the sour-faced, over-weight moosepigs of which BA has a few are often the nicest, most pleasant & helpful crew BA have! Always good for a chat & a steady flow of vino.
Just come back from a business trip to Jamaica, using BA, the ONLY time I ever do, is when there is NO choice, as in this case.
Paid £2500 for business class ticket, but in order to choose a seat, thats an extra £68 each way, unless you are silver or gold then it's free. I declined that offer, and was the first to check in, as in sequence number 001 on my boarding pass and ALL window seats had already gone.
Plane out of Gatwick last week was 2 hrs 40 minutes late, due to a slide deployment by ground staff, and return trip was delayed by a fuel system fault, noticed at taxi out, i.e. we were at the end of the runway, before we taxied back to the stand.
All of the food and drink is uploaded for the outbound and return legs at Gatwick, so is therefore effectively rationed, we ran out of Gin (miniatures) on the way out, to preserve some for the way back, so I managed one G&T on a 12 hour flight. You get more with EasyJet.
All in all, simply an appalling advertisement for this Country, where the national flag carrier offers such poor service. I feel sorry for the staff, but the Airline has gone to the dogs.
Paid £2500 for business class ticket, but in order to choose a seat, thats an extra £68 each way, unless you are silver or gold then it's free. I declined that offer, and was the first to check in, as in sequence number 001 on my boarding pass and ALL window seats had already gone.
Plane out of Gatwick last week was 2 hrs 40 minutes late, due to a slide deployment by ground staff, and return trip was delayed by a fuel system fault, noticed at taxi out, i.e. we were at the end of the runway, before we taxied back to the stand.
All of the food and drink is uploaded for the outbound and return legs at Gatwick, so is therefore effectively rationed, we ran out of Gin (miniatures) on the way out, to preserve some for the way back, so I managed one G&T on a 12 hour flight. You get more with EasyJet.
All in all, simply an appalling advertisement for this Country, where the national flag carrier offers such poor service. I feel sorry for the staff, but the Airline has gone to the dogs.
tezzer said:
Just come back from a business trip to Jamaica, using BA, the ONLY time I ever do, is when there is NO choice, as in this case.
Paid £2500 for business class ticket, but in order to choose a seat, thats an extra £68 each way, unless you are silver or gold then it's free. I declined that offer, and was the first to check in, as in sequence number 001 on my boarding pass and ALL window seats had already gone.
Plane out of Gatwick last week was 2 hrs 40 minutes late, due to a slide deployment by ground staff, and return trip was delayed by a fuel system fault, noticed at taxi out, i.e. we were at the end of the runway, before we taxied back to the stand.
All of the food and drink is uploaded for the outbound and return legs at Gatwick, so is therefore effectively rationed, we ran out of Gin (miniatures) on the way out, to preserve some for the way back, so I managed one G&T on a 12 hour flight. You get more with EasyJet.
All in all, simply an appalling advertisement for this Country, where the national flag carrier offers such poor service. I feel sorry for the staff, but the Airline has gone to the dogs.
The whole seat choosing thing is a fiasco, its a rip off plain and simple. The airlines drive people to hand baggage only and then charge extra to pick a seat when they do go hand baggage only. I don't know how much they make out of charging for choosing a seat but it's a crappy way of treating a customer.Paid £2500 for business class ticket, but in order to choose a seat, thats an extra £68 each way, unless you are silver or gold then it's free. I declined that offer, and was the first to check in, as in sequence number 001 on my boarding pass and ALL window seats had already gone.
Plane out of Gatwick last week was 2 hrs 40 minutes late, due to a slide deployment by ground staff, and return trip was delayed by a fuel system fault, noticed at taxi out, i.e. we were at the end of the runway, before we taxied back to the stand.
All of the food and drink is uploaded for the outbound and return legs at Gatwick, so is therefore effectively rationed, we ran out of Gin (miniatures) on the way out, to preserve some for the way back, so I managed one G&T on a 12 hour flight. You get more with EasyJet.
All in all, simply an appalling advertisement for this Country, where the national flag carrier offers such poor service. I feel sorry for the staff, but the Airline has gone to the dogs.
The fuel fault is a different story altogether, you can't really complain unless you are daft enough to expect the pilots to press on regardless.
tezzer said:
Just come back from a business trip to Jamaica, using BA, the ONLY time I ever do, is when there is NO choice, as in this case.
Paid £2500 for business class ticket, but in order to choose a seat, thats an extra £68 each way, unless you are silver or gold then it's free. I declined that offer, and was the first to check in, as in sequence number 001 on my boarding pass and ALL window seats had already gone.
Plane out of Gatwick last week was 2 hrs 40 minutes late, due to a slide deployment by ground staff, and return trip was delayed by a fuel system fault, noticed at taxi out, i.e. we were at the end of the runway, before we taxied back to the stand.
All of the food and drink is uploaded for the outbound and return legs at Gatwick, so is therefore effectively rationed, we ran out of Gin (miniatures) on the way out, to preserve some for the way back, so I managed one G&T on a 12 hour flight. You get more with EasyJet.
All in all, simply an appalling advertisement for this Country, where the national flag carrier offers such poor service. I feel sorry for the staff, but the Airline has gone to the dogs.
On our last flight to Vegas they stopped serving alcohol. No real problem and some were over-indulging - although they had their own supply, so it just punished others, but then ran out of soft drinks. We are flying with them again this year and I am really not looking forward to it. If it had been just us I'd have routed differently to avoid the 747.Paid £2500 for business class ticket, but in order to choose a seat, thats an extra £68 each way, unless you are silver or gold then it's free. I declined that offer, and was the first to check in, as in sequence number 001 on my boarding pass and ALL window seats had already gone.
Plane out of Gatwick last week was 2 hrs 40 minutes late, due to a slide deployment by ground staff, and return trip was delayed by a fuel system fault, noticed at taxi out, i.e. we were at the end of the runway, before we taxied back to the stand.
All of the food and drink is uploaded for the outbound and return legs at Gatwick, so is therefore effectively rationed, we ran out of Gin (miniatures) on the way out, to preserve some for the way back, so I managed one G&T on a 12 hour flight. You get more with EasyJet.
All in all, simply an appalling advertisement for this Country, where the national flag carrier offers such poor service. I feel sorry for the staff, but the Airline has gone to the dogs.
Blaster72 said:
The whole seat choosing thing is a fiasco, its a rip off plain and simple. The airlines drive people to hand baggage only and then charge extra to pick a seat when they do go hand baggage only. I don't know how much they make out of charging for choosing a seat but it's a crappy way of treating a customer.
The option to choose a seat when check-in opens at -24 hours still exists. The airline introduced hand baggage only fares in response to customer demand and market realities. On short haul, travelers continue to chose airline solely on the headline price and most of BA's loco competitors were not offering a choice of seats and so had a lower headline figure. Hand baggage only fares were trialed in Gatwick, proved very popular and so were extended to the rest of BA's network. They've also proven popular with regular BA passengers who know and understand the rules and for those who use comparison sites etc. to search for the lowest headline figure. The HBO fares are cheaper than BA's previous fare structure and were designed to compete with the no frills offerings.BA also realises the importance of return business and hence the Executive Club is designed, partly, to reward its loyal customers. Many businesses have measures in place to reward loyalty: IMO it's a good thing. Taking the 777 Jamaica(?) flight as an example, one of two things happened I guess: either each and every person paid the £68 to secure their seat or Gold and Silver card holders, who are repeat customers of BA, have had their loyalty rewarded with priority seat selection. My money is on the latter and I agree with BA rewarding loyalty in this way; but that's just my opinion. Many travel this route regularly and expect their loyalty to be rewarded.
Emirates offer their Gold and Platinum Skywards members guaranteed seating, even on fully-booked flights. They also offer the option to choose your seats at the time of booking, but offer no guarantees that your choice will be honoured and I guess, by inference, a Gold or Platinum reward scheme member could trump your choice. The basic tier of the BA Executive Club offers "preferred seats — allocated wherever possible when you travel on a fully flexible ticket. The next stage, Bronze, offers "reserving your seats, free of charge, from seven days before departure (except on hand baggage only fares and not including exit row seats on longhaul flights)." I'd imagine that a long haul return in Club would get you pretty close to Bronze status.
With regard to the fuel pump issue, it's quite common to push back from your parking gate and be presented with a technical defect after engine start. There are checklists, manuals and procedures to follow which more often than not allow you to depart legally and safely. On the above flight, if they decided to return to stand at the point you say, then I'm assuming that they had to taxi on to the runway and back off again? Are you sure they weren't on the apron or an adjacent taxiway? They may well have taxied to a clearer part of the airfield to allow other aircraft to park or push back and avoid blocking the apron and/or taxiways. Troubleshooting at that point is not at all uncommon and, as I've said, more often that not you'll be none the wiser and the flight will continue as normal.
surveyor said:
On our last flight to Vegas they stopped serving alcohol. No real problem and some were over-indulging - although they had their own supply, so it just punished others, but then ran out of soft drinks. We are flying with them again this year and I am really not looking forward to it. If it had been just us I'd have routed differently to avoid the 747.
The Vegas flight and a couple of others are notorious for their alcohol consumption. With Las Vegas, I believe there's a reason why BA can't upload new bars on the ground so the flight has to be round-tripped from London. Obviously, comsumption on the outbound is limited to leave some for the return flight. I'll try to find the reason why BA can't upload new bars in LV.With regard to a different routing to avoid the 747, it has more bars/storage areas than the 777 and so, on a Las Vegas, there's more alcohol on board. For that reason the 747 link doesn't make any sense to me. If you were to route to a destination where it's possible to upload new bars that'd make more sense, but that wouldn't be aircraft type specific. For the reasons you gave, the 747 would be the aircraft to choose when flying to Las Vegas.
The biggest issue I have with BA long haul is that the cabin crews' primary focus would appear to be on planning the craic they'll be having when they're on their stopover. On the overnight return legs, their primary focus is then making as little contact with the passengers as possible but instead throwing eachother knowing glances and smirks which say "that was some craic we had on the stopover". The second biggest issue I have is when all this lack of customer focus is being carried out by late middle-aged mincing men with too much tan.
JuniorD said:
The biggest issue I have with BA long haul is that the cabin crews' primary focus would appear to be on planning the craic they'll be having when they're on their stopover. On the overnight return legs, their primary focus is then making as little contact with the passengers as possible but instead throwing eachother knowing glances and smirks which say "that was some craic we had on the stopover". The second biggest issue I have is when all this lack of customer focus is being carried out by late middle-aged mincing men with too much tan.
How often do you fly with BA? Where do you usually go?Those are pretty sweeping statements
pushthebutton said:
surveyor said:
On our last flight to Vegas they stopped serving alcohol. No real problem and some were over-indulging - although they had their own supply, so it just punished others, but then ran out of soft drinks. We are flying with them again this year and I am really not looking forward to it. If it had been just us I'd have routed differently to avoid the 747.
The Vegas flight and a couple of others are notorious for their alcohol consumption. With Las Vegas, I believe there's a reason why BA can't upload new bars on the ground so the flight has to be round-tripped from London. Obviously, comsumption on the outbound is limited to leave some for the return flight. I'll try to find the reason why BA can't upload new bars in LV.With regard to a different routing to avoid the 747, it has more bars/storage areas than the 777 and so, on a Las Vegas, there's more alcohol on board. For that reason the 747 link doesn't make any sense to me. If you were to route to a destination where it's possible to upload new bars that'd make more sense, but that wouldn't be aircraft type specific. For the reasons you gave, the 747 would be the aircraft to choose when flying to Las Vegas.
I don't have a problem with the 747, and I did not mind the booze lock-down - indeed the state of some of the passengers it was needed, although as mentioned those with their own supply continued. The lack of soft drinks was a bugbear though.
But the reason that I want to avoid BA is the seats at the back - with the ancient IFE. I can't sleep, so like to be able to use my phone / see the screen etc. The 24 hour thing on seats is also very irritating.
I'm perfectly happy to route via American Airlines on their newer 777's, which are far superior, to avoid either the BA 747 or the 777 which is also dated by newer standards.
Sadly as my work flying is short-haul from the North to Ireland mostly I'm not ever going to get serious tier points with BA.
pushthebutton said:
JuniorD said:
The biggest issue I have with BA long haul is that the cabin crews' primary focus would appear to be on planning the craic they'll be having when they're on their stopover. On the overnight return legs, their primary focus is then making as little contact with the passengers as possible but instead throwing eachother knowing glances and smirks which say "that was some craic we had on the stopover". The second biggest issue I have is when all this lack of customer focus is being carried out by late middle-aged mincing men with too much tan.
How often do you fly with BA? Where do you usually go?Those are pretty sweeping statements
surveyor said:
You sound like you know more about than BA than you can let on.
But the reason that I want to avoid BA is the seats at the back - with the ancient IFE. I can't sleep, so like to be able to use my phone / see the screen etc. The 24 hour thing on seats is also very irritating.
I'm perfectly happy to route via American Airlines on their newer 777's, which are far superior, to avoid either the BA 747 or the 777 which is also dated by newer standards.
Sadly as my work flying is short-haul from the North to Ireland mostly I'm not ever going to get serious tier points with BA.
BA were a launch customer of the 777 so, at one point, they had a brand new fleet. They (we But the reason that I want to avoid BA is the seats at the back - with the ancient IFE. I can't sleep, so like to be able to use my phone / see the screen etc. The 24 hour thing on seats is also very irritating.
I'm perfectly happy to route via American Airlines on their newer 777's, which are far superior, to avoid either the BA 747 or the 777 which is also dated by newer standards.
Sadly as my work flying is short-haul from the North to Ireland mostly I'm not ever going to get serious tier points with BA.
) are 12 or so aircraft into a 42 aircraft fleet of 787s; marmite I know. They'll eventually be left with 18 refitted 747s which look like this in World Traveller:
They have the brand new Panasonic Avionics’s eX3 system fitted:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/11868...
Funnily enough, I was one one of these last week and sat next to a gentleman who asked the cabin manager whether BA "still had the old, decrepit 747-400s flying around" as he settled in to his almost brand new Club seat. The cabin manager's answer: "yes sir, you're on one."
The 777 fleet is the next to be replaced with the 777X and there are 18 or so A350s on their way IIRC. I can't remember the specifics but, from memory BA are 2-3 years into a 10-year business plan to effectively replace the whole fleet.
I'm not sure if you use BA on your commute, but even Bronze status would allow you to reserve seats, free of charge, 7 days before departure. I totally understand why people can get frustrated with BA and I'm in no place to comment on standards of service compared to other carriers. They've adapted their service, cabins and Executive Club to target their most frequent and likely revenue streams. Flying into and out of Heathrow gives them a competitive advantage and if they are the best option or only direct option on a particular route then you can be sure that the revenue generation department know about it.
pushthebutton said:
surveyor said:
You sound like you know more about than BA than you can let on.
But the reason that I want to avoid BA is the seats at the back - with the ancient IFE. I can't sleep, so like to be able to use my phone / see the screen etc. The 24 hour thing on seats is also very irritating.
I'm perfectly happy to route via American Airlines on their newer 777's, which are far superior, to avoid either the BA 747 or the 777 which is also dated by newer standards.
Sadly as my work flying is short-haul from the North to Ireland mostly I'm not ever going to get serious tier points with BA.
BA were a launch customer of the 777 so, at one point, they had a brand new fleet. They (we But the reason that I want to avoid BA is the seats at the back - with the ancient IFE. I can't sleep, so like to be able to use my phone / see the screen etc. The 24 hour thing on seats is also very irritating.
I'm perfectly happy to route via American Airlines on their newer 777's, which are far superior, to avoid either the BA 747 or the 777 which is also dated by newer standards.
Sadly as my work flying is short-haul from the North to Ireland mostly I'm not ever going to get serious tier points with BA.
) are 12 or so aircraft into a 42 aircraft fleet of 787s; marmite I know. They'll eventually be left with 18 refitted 747s which look like this in World Traveller:They have the brand new Panasonic Avionics’s eX3 system fitted:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/11868...
Funnily enough, I was one one of these last week and sat next to a gentleman who asked the cabin manager whether BA "still had the old, decrepit 747-400s flying around" as he settled in to his almost brand new Club seat. The cabin manager's answer: "yes sir, you're on one."
The 777 fleet is the next to be replaced with the 777X and there are 18 or so A350s on their way IIRC. I can't remember the specifics but, from memory BA are 2-3 years into a 10-year business plan to effectively replace the whole fleet.
I'm not sure if you use BA on your commute, but even Bronze status would allow you to reserve seats, free of charge, 7 days before departure. I totally understand why people can get frustrated with BA and I'm in no place to comment on standards of service compared to other carriers. They've adapted their service, cabins and Executive Club to target their most frequent and likely revenue streams. Flying into and out of Heathrow gives them a competitive advantage and if they are the best option or only direct option on a particular route then you can be sure that the revenue generation department know about it.
I fly mainly to Dublin from the North, so it's either Ryan Air (who I avoid) or more normally Aer Lingus. I'm not sure if they are ever going to integrate into Avios or indeed if flying back and forth on such a short flight is going to accrue much alas.
JuniorD said:
pushthebutton said:
JuniorD said:
The biggest issue I have with BA long haul..
How often do you fly with BA? Where do you usually go?Those are pretty sweeping statements
I guess I'd always imagined the Air Lingus crews "planning the craic they'll be having when they're on their stopover" as well. I can't say I've experienced too many of the more long service crews being as you've said. They probably are; they just don't tell me.
I've got a local (Wizzair) flight tomorrow, which will be every bit as good as the BA Club World flight last week, and an Emirates business class flight to Dhaka on Saturday, which will be poles apart from the crap of last week.
I'll never get above "Blue" on BA, as I use them only when there is no choice, and the tier points on my annual business trip to Kngston nets 280 points, and 300 are needed as the transition point.
Nope I'll stick with Emirates, or KLM/AF thanks.
I'll never get above "Blue" on BA, as I use them only when there is no choice, and the tier points on my annual business trip to Kngston nets 280 points, and 300 are needed as the transition point.
Nope I'll stick with Emirates, or KLM/AF thanks.
fido said:
I didn't get hot towels on the way back from Copenhagen yesterday. Didn't make a fuss about it as the Club Europe was only half full and maybe the 1 hostess they allocated had just forgot about it in between getting all our meals ready.
Not sure if they still hand them out in Europe? These towels always amused me, they're hotter than the sun when handed to you and within a millisecond have gone stone cold and feel like the clammy hands of death. Horrible things Paid £670 for a return to Atlanta later this month, with the outbound in a cheap, non-upgradeable bucket - and the return in World Traveller Plus. So 110 tier points, as it's 20 out, 90 back.
Was offered an upgrade on the way out in to WT+ for £150. Thanks very much. That's a lot of tier points for the money!
Was offered an upgrade on the way out in to WT+ for £150. Thanks very much. That's a lot of tier points for the money!
tim0409 said:
My most impressive tier point haul for a single trip was 1200 to Hawaii. I have now reached the dizzy heights of Gold but I feel like a bit of a fraud!
Off to Seattle in a fortnight - 220 points on premium economy, then San Francisco a fortnight after that - again 220 on premium economy. Lost my Gold by a whisker the year before last, and last year I got 1400 or so, so just short of getting back up to Gold 
Most of my flights are domestic (pretty much weekly) and I'm pretty loyal to BA, but it's very difficult to get back to a Gold card on domestics and premium economy transatlantics. What I need is someone to pay for me to go Business once or twice and the job would be a good 'un.
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