Our disgraceful National Airline
Discussion
tezzer said:
I've got a local (Wizzair) flight tomorrow, which will be every bit as good as the BA Club World flight last week, and an Emirates business class flight to Dhaka on Saturday, which will be poles apart from the crap of last week.
I'll never get above "Blue" on BA, as I use them only when there is no choice, and the tier points on my annual business trip to Kngston nets 280 points, and 300 are needed as the transition point.
Nope I'll stick with Emirates, or KLM/AF thanks.
Suggesting Wizzair is as good as BA CW makes you hard to take seriously. If you really think that, then who is the mug for paying £2500 for the experience? There is always an option to connect to another carrier.I'll never get above "Blue" on BA, as I use them only when there is no choice, and the tier points on my annual business trip to Kngston nets 280 points, and 300 are needed as the transition point.
Nope I'll stick with Emirates, or KLM/AF thanks.
And don't you think 1 annual trip, which by your own admission is all you take on BA, is rather a small sample set to make sweeping generalisations?
I fly BA CW and CE regularly (around 30 flights a year) and whilst not always faultless find the service pretty decent overall.
A lot of the sarcasm directed towards the OP seem to centre around services or upgrades that will actually be a cost to the airline to provide, so therefore passing that cost (with a margin) onto the customer is an acceptable business practice.
I'm struggling to see how seat selection is a service that needs anything more than a few clicks of a mouse by the customer while the software takes care of the rest.
Anyone care to educate me how charging a disproportionate sum is anything more than profiteering?
I'm struggling to see how seat selection is a service that needs anything more than a few clicks of a mouse by the customer while the software takes care of the rest.
Anyone care to educate me how charging a disproportionate sum is anything more than profiteering?
Impasse said:
I'm struggling to see how seat selection is a service that needs anything more than a few clicks of a mouse by the customer while the software takes care of the rest.
Anyone care to educate me how charging a disproportionate sum is anything more than profiteering?
I thought that the thread had done a pretty good job of explaining why, even including some numbers and examples. I guess you don't agree?Anyone care to educate me how charging a disproportionate sum is anything more than profiteering?
pushthebutton said:
I thought that the thread had done a pretty good job of explaining why, even including some numbers and examples. I guess you don't agree?
No I don't. The software cost could be added to the price of each ticket I suppose. Let's round it up to one pence. Where is the other cost being incurred by the airline?Impasse said:
Anyone care to educate me how charging a disproportionate sum is anything more than profiteering?
If it's a disproportionate sum, don't pay it. It's only profiteering if they force you to pay it. They don't. Each seat is not equal. Some people prefer window, some aisle, can't think of anybody who prefers centre. There is therefore a different value to each seat. If the value you place on a particular seat is less than the cost to pick it don't pay. This is not about cost to the airline it's about value to the customer. They are charging you for the value they offer. 
GT03ROB said:
Impasse said:
Anyone care to educate me how charging a disproportionate sum is anything more than profiteering?
If it's a disproportionate sum, don't pay it. It's only profiteering if they force you to pay it. They don't. Each seat is not equal. Some people prefer window, some aisle, can't think of anybody who prefers centre. There is therefore a different value to each seat. If the value you place on a particular seat is less than the cost to pick it don't pay. This is not about cost to the airline it's about value to the customer. They are charging you for the value they offer. Kenty said:
GT03ROB said:
Impasse said:
Anyone care to educate me how charging a disproportionate sum is anything more than profiteering?
If it's a disproportionate sum, don't pay it. It's only profiteering if they force you to pay it. They don't. Each seat is not equal. Some people prefer window, some aisle, can't think of anybody who prefers centre. There is therefore a different value to each seat. If the value you place on a particular seat is less than the cost to pick it don't pay. This is not about cost to the airline it's about value to the customer. They are charging you for the value they offer. You paid for X they gave you X, you would have preferred Y but didn't consider it worth paying for, you are now unhappy you didn't get Y.
I'll repeat my earlier analogy. Week after next I fly BA in WT+, I'd prefer to fly Club & there will be spare seats in Club, but I don't consider it worth paying for. Will it be Ok for me get off with a negative feeling over the whole experience if they don't let me in Club?
DDg said:
If you ever buy a new car - don't look at the options list!...
I'm not sure your analogy works here. The options list of a car offers tangible and physical attributes that will need to factored into the price of manufacturing. Changing the seat numbers on a computer screen to previously unallocated seats costs nothing but the price of the software. The OP doesn't want an upgrade to Business Class, or a seat with extra leg room, or a flight-long supply of Champagne, or even a gourmet meal instead of the aforementioned bread roll. He doesn't want to turf anyone out of their already allotted seats.
He just wants his boarding pass to be reprinted by his own printer with different numbers in the corner. This action will inconvenience no one and will cost the airline nothing.
Impasse said:
He just wants his boarding pass to be reprinted by his own printer with different numbers in the corner. This action will inconvenience no one and will cost the airline nothing.
So it has little cost but it does have a value. It was a value he decided he didn't want to pay for at the outset, which he had the option to do. Now he wants that added value for free. Any company that charges based merely on the cost of it's product rather than value will not be in business long. I'm sure any business you are in Impasse does the same, charges on the basis of value not cost that is. Sometimes customer satisfaction and the subsequent repeat business is worth way more than the price put onto any dubious "value" generating mechanism. BA hasn't endeared themselves to the OP with this tactic, so has their procedure made him more or less likely to use their service again?
Impasse said:
Sometimes customer satisfaction and the subsequent repeat business is worth way more than the price put onto any dubious "value" generating mechanism. BA hasn't endeared themselves to the OP with this tactic, so has their procedure made him more or less likely to use their service again?
Whether that matters to BA will be reflected in their ability to fill seats or not. Waiting in line to speak to a KLM service agent we listened to an excellent rant from an unhappy couple ahead of us. We agreed with almost everything they said about KLM's service. However, once they had finished and were sent on their unhappy way, the service agent said to their backs "and yet all our planes are full....".
Despite reinforcing our dislike for the airline, it's hard to argue against the bare facts.
Impasse said:
Sometimes customer satisfaction and the subsequent repeat business is worth way more than the price put onto any dubious "value" generating mechanism. BA hasn't endeared themselves to the OP with this tactic, so has their procedure made him more or less likely to use their service again?
This is what the OP said about his fare:Kenty said:
No I didn't get what I paid for IMO.
I am not stupid, I paid £125pp I didn't expect an upgrade, I didn't want extra leg room, I didn't want to pay £60 per hold bag,
I wanted something different from £25 Ryanair flights
I am not stupid, I paid £125pp I didn't expect an upgrade, I didn't want extra leg room, I didn't want to pay £60 per hold bag,
I wanted something different from £25 Ryanair flights
Blaster72 said:
Firstly you wouldn't get the same flight with Ryanair for £25.
Secondly, choosing seats, better meal, bag in the hold. None of these are part of the fare you paid for, pay more you'll get them.
Secondly, choosing seats, better meal, bag in the hold. None of these are part of the fare you paid for, pay more you'll get them.
desolate said:
125 quid a person seems cheap to me.
Then Swerni pointed out that flying with another carrier from a different airport would make the headline figure cheaper, but you'd effectively lose 2 days off of your short break. That has a value in my opinion:swerni said:
Ryanair are circa £85 from Stansted to Lisbon ( that's leaving very late and heading back very early so in effect cutting 2 days of your trip)
If you want to leave at a descent time then it's £119.
Easy jet are £99 from Stansted to Lisbon
BA are the cheapest from LHR
When you added in the cost of food and any hidden extras, you got a good deal
Maybe we are blinkered maybe you are ignorant?
I know where my money would go
As rants go, this one is s
t!
The oyster pointed out that the charge for BA to operate out of Heathrow is £23 greater than that either Easyjet of Ryanair would pay out of Stansted:If you want to leave at a descent time then it's £119.
Easy jet are £99 from Stansted to Lisbon
BA are the cheapest from LHR
When you added in the cost of food and any hidden extras, you got a good deal
Maybe we are blinkered maybe you are ignorant?
I know where my money would go
As rants go, this one is s
t!oyster said:
It's worse than that.
The passenger service charge at Stansted is £11 versus £34 at Heathrow.
Which means Ryanair is receiving £108 of their equivalent fare. BA are receiving just £96.
And BA are giving away free drinks (alcoholic) and food.
And yet the OP thinks the fare was expensive.
Good grief.
BA's revenue from the ticket price is already £23 less than their competitors out of Stansted. If departing from Heathrow offers the OP a benefit in terms of travel time, fuel cost, convenience and actual time on holiday then that all adds value to the ticket. It's already been proven that BA's revenue from the OP would, in all likelihood be significantly less than the flights the competition are offering.The passenger service charge at Stansted is £11 versus £34 at Heathrow.
Which means Ryanair is receiving £108 of their equivalent fare. BA are receiving just £96.
And BA are giving away free drinks (alcoholic) and food.
And yet the OP thinks the fare was expensive.
Good grief.
The HBO fares are below any price point they have offered in the past are are designed to mirror the competition; unallocated seating is nothing new to them. Easyjet's allocated seating charges range from £1.99 to £16.99 (disgraceful
). Ryanair's charges range from £5.99 to £22.50. BA's fee of £16 takes the above into consideration and may include the cost of disappointing proven, regular travelers. Travelers who have already demonstrated to BA that they are repeat customers. The revenue generation department will have looked at the Lisbon route, and the regular flyers on that route, to determine the price point for the HBO fare. It may well not have endeared itself to the OP - who didn't read the Ts & Cs - but, at the same time, it may just have looked after it's proven repeated customers whilst still attracting those that search for a headline price point and nothing else.
Blaster72 said:
Not sure if they still hand them out in Europe? These towels always amused me, they're hotter than the sun when handed to you and within a millisecond have gone stone cold and feel like the clammy hands of death. Horrible things
Well I actually got TWO towels on the flight out (one before we took off and one after lunch was served) and it was on a nicer/newer plane (and served by a lovely & petite Danish hostess to boot). I try to get the super-hot towel around my neck and face before it cools down into a cold clammy ball of uselessness!fido said:
Well I actually got TWO towels on the flight out (one before we took off and one after lunch was served) and it was on a nicer/newer plane (and served by a lovely & petite Danish hostess to boot). I try to get the super-hot towel around my neck and face before it cools down into a cold clammy ball of uselessness!
I swear emirates are obsessed with these, i recieved at least three on a flight between hkg-dxb.The HBO fares are a topic close home... A few points to consider:
- HBO fares are for people who don't want a bag, adding a bag to a HBO fare works out more expensive than just buying a standard fare (and being able to choose your seat).
- When booking a HBO fare on BA.com, it tells you about no bag allowance and an allocated seat above the fare you select and then displays a pop up telling you again, which needs to be closed before purchase so I don't think it's misleading?
- They were introduced following a trial at LGW, to allow BA to compete more effectively with low cost carriers by offering a more comparable product for those that want it, without taking anything away from the standard product.
- A lot of people buy based on headline price rather than considering travel costs, time, convenience etc. In that, some people will save £10 booking a ticket without working it out that it'll cost them an extra £20 down the line. The psychology of this is interesting but ultimately, it's a seperate decision to be made at a later date and as such, people don't always take it into account.
- As has been pointed out, the LHR charges are substantially more than most, BA has to pass a fair chunk of your money on straight to the airport.
- Having just looked at Lisbon, your £125 per person is currently made up of £59.81 in government and airport taxes. BA charging about £65 to fly you to Lisbon and back doesn't seem too bad? If you want to take a bag, buying the standard fare would be an extra £15 each way (this amount varies by route).
- HBO fares are for people who don't want a bag, adding a bag to a HBO fare works out more expensive than just buying a standard fare (and being able to choose your seat).
- When booking a HBO fare on BA.com, it tells you about no bag allowance and an allocated seat above the fare you select and then displays a pop up telling you again, which needs to be closed before purchase so I don't think it's misleading?
- They were introduced following a trial at LGW, to allow BA to compete more effectively with low cost carriers by offering a more comparable product for those that want it, without taking anything away from the standard product.
- A lot of people buy based on headline price rather than considering travel costs, time, convenience etc. In that, some people will save £10 booking a ticket without working it out that it'll cost them an extra £20 down the line. The psychology of this is interesting but ultimately, it's a seperate decision to be made at a later date and as such, people don't always take it into account.
- As has been pointed out, the LHR charges are substantially more than most, BA has to pass a fair chunk of your money on straight to the airport.
- Having just looked at Lisbon, your £125 per person is currently made up of £59.81 in government and airport taxes. BA charging about £65 to fly you to Lisbon and back doesn't seem too bad? If you want to take a bag, buying the standard fare would be an extra £15 each way (this amount varies by route).
swerni said:
But completely off topic, bloody hell, what an improvement they made to LAX.
Not been there in years, it's now more like a European airport now.
was absolutely dire when we were there, but given the size and sprawl much as heathrow etc I suspect people on the same day can have very different experiences..Not been there in years, it's now more like a European airport now.
Living in London but from Belfast, the girlfriend and I used BA to travel home a lot. Enjoyed th 'free' drink but they were incredibly poor with regards to punctuality. The final straw was a weekend flight home that saw a five to six hour delay due to a runway emergency brake that necessitated a tyre inspection, and a return flight that saw us run out of reserve on the way into Heathrow leading to a landing in Stansted before a 15 minute flight to Heathrow. Not entirely their fault, but still.
That and a time table change which rendered the flight unachievable for those of us unfortunate enough to have to work for a living. Did put in a complaint, apropos of the first paragraph, but was met with a fairly uncaring, pro forma response.
Have used them long haul (economy) Gatwick to Calgary and they were well off the pace of competitors. Currently in Dubai having flown Emirates (economy) and it really was different altogether. Quite lovely.
That and a time table change which rendered the flight unachievable for those of us unfortunate enough to have to work for a living. Did put in a complaint, apropos of the first paragraph, but was met with a fairly uncaring, pro forma response.
Have used them long haul (economy) Gatwick to Calgary and they were well off the pace of competitors. Currently in Dubai having flown Emirates (economy) and it really was different altogether. Quite lovely.
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