buying an apartment in spain
Discussion
CAH706 said:
Thank you and thanks to eyebeebe
If we retired there full time. the income amount wouldn’t be an issue as that’s less than my annual pension. When my wife retires she would also have above the required amounts. We also have reasonable savings behind us.
For the holiday home idea, for the remote work we ideally would have liked the option to take as an example a 3 week trip with my wife being able to work for some of the time. Her employer is fine with working abroad but it doesn’t sound like that fits the regulations now. I used to work when we went away some years ago but I appreciate things have changed now.
Rushjob - hope you move is going well for you and thanks for your offer for more info. I’ll do a little more reading and then get in touch as it would be great to pick your brains!
If you are just holidaying using your 90 in 180 days under Schengen, then there are no issues with your wife working remotely, to be fair, who would know anyway apart from her employer and if she works remotely normally, they possibly wouldn't be aware anyway? If we retired there full time. the income amount wouldn’t be an issue as that’s less than my annual pension. When my wife retires she would also have above the required amounts. We also have reasonable savings behind us.
For the holiday home idea, for the remote work we ideally would have liked the option to take as an example a 3 week trip with my wife being able to work for some of the time. Her employer is fine with working abroad but it doesn’t sound like that fits the regulations now. I used to work when we went away some years ago but I appreciate things have changed now.
Rushjob - hope you move is going well for you and thanks for your offer for more info. I’ll do a little more reading and then get in touch as it would be great to pick your brains!
Residence is when the rules need to be followed as falling foul of them can cause issues. Certainly my daughter has worked for several weeks from our home when we were in France when she visited.
Rushjob said:
If you are just holidaying using your 90 in 180 days under Schengen, then there are no issues with your wife working remotely, to be fair, who would know anyway apart from her employer and if she works remotely normally, they possibly wouldn't be aware anyway?
Could you provide a link to something that states there are no issues working remotely please? As I wrote, we've been in contact with the embassy about this and I've researched for hours and the conclusion we have come to is that the 90/180 rule is for visiting the Schengen area and not for working in it.I agree that the chances of being caught are minimal, but our employer will not allow us to do so unless we have proof of eligibility to work there.
CAH706 said:
Thank you and thanks to eyebeebe
If we retired there full time. the income amount wouldn’t be an issue as that’s less than my annual pension. When my wife retires she would also have above the required amounts. We also have reasonable savings behind us.
For the holiday home idea, for the remote work we ideally would have liked the option to take as an example a 3 week trip with my wife being able to work for some of the time. Her employer is fine with working abroad but it doesn’t sound like that fits the regulations now. I used to work when we went away some years ago but I appreciate things have changed now.
Rushjob - hope you move is going well for you and thanks for your offer for more info. I’ll do a little more reading and then get in touch as it would be great to pick your brains!
Your wife could get the 'Digital Nomad Visa' which allows you to live in Spain and work for a UK (or other foreign) company. You are allowed to work for a Spanish company also, as long as the this equates to no more than 20% of your working time. There are some rules and regs to follow of course. If we retired there full time. the income amount wouldn’t be an issue as that’s less than my annual pension. When my wife retires she would also have above the required amounts. We also have reasonable savings behind us.
For the holiday home idea, for the remote work we ideally would have liked the option to take as an example a 3 week trip with my wife being able to work for some of the time. Her employer is fine with working abroad but it doesn’t sound like that fits the regulations now. I used to work when we went away some years ago but I appreciate things have changed now.
Rushjob - hope you move is going well for you and thanks for your offer for more info. I’ll do a little more reading and then get in touch as it would be great to pick your brains!
This is my planned route when we move over in a couple of years before we buy a house and hopefully get the golden visa ... it gives us time to settle before we buy a house.
JEA1K said:
Your wife could get the 'Digital Nomad Visa' which allows you to live in Spain and work for a UK (or other foreign) company. You are allowed to work for a Spanish company also, as long as the this equates to no more than 20% of your working time. There are some rules and regs to follow of course.
This is my planned route when we move over in a couple of years before we buy a house and hopefully get the golden visa ... it gives us time to settle before we buy a house.
The problem with the digital nomad visa is that you have to spend 6 months of the year in Spain to be able to renew it.This is my planned route when we move over in a couple of years before we buy a house and hopefully get the golden visa ... it gives us time to settle before we buy a house.
https://citizenremote.com/visas/spain-digital-noma...
The 90-day Schengen rules are basically offering you a tourist visa, but without documentation.
To undertake any employed work means that you are outside the tourist visa rules.
It is virtually impossible to enforce for computer working, but I doubt that any UK employer would permit it, if asked.
To undertake any employed work means that you are outside the tourist visa rules.
It is virtually impossible to enforce for computer working, but I doubt that any UK employer would permit it, if asked.
eyebeebe said:
Could you provide a link to something that states there are no issues working remotely please? As I wrote, we've been in contact with the embassy about this and I've researched for hours and the conclusion we have come to is that the 90/180 rule is for visiting the Schengen area and not for working in it.
I agree that the chances of being caught are minimal, but our employer will not allow us to do so unless we have proof of eligibility to work there.
It was a comment on the practicality of doing some remote work whilst on holiday. You won't find any official links saying to do is ok without the relevant visa / work permitI agree that the chances of being caught are minimal, but our employer will not allow us to do so unless we have proof of eligibility to work there.
Rushjob said:
The NLV referred to currently requires 36,000€ of either passive income ( pension, rental income etc ) for a couple (28,800 for an individual ) or the same in savings or a mix of the two, plus private health insurance as a starter.
And that's the bit that is often overlooked.Chris Stott said:
Kerniki said:
We ‘re back after our usual winter stay in Marbella / Estepona & as posted on here, this time we were looking to buy an apartment, this escalated to a Villa after realising an apartment (tried a 160m2 one for 3 weeks with our dogs) was just too restrictive for us vs our home in france.
We ended up in a beachside villa at guadalmina for 6 weeks, quite like that area, one row back from beachfront meant we couldnt hear the A7, easy route for the gym which is important.
That established we started looking at villas and what we’d need to spend to get what we needed and 2m got a fairly decent / ex rental villa that we could do some work on and add some value.
Tbh though, we came away just feeling like we didnt want to be tied to a permanent villa, we like moving around and trying different things each winterand dont want to be tied to using our villa each year, i know we could just rent it out full or part time associated hassles of this and maintenance (when we already have our own large, high maintenance property) just started to feel like a ball ache tbh.
To be honest, we’re only there because the weather is better for winter, we dont actually like spain as much as france, the driving roads, historic quaintness, restaurants etc we much prefer in france, though i prefer the attitude and general happiness of the spanish over and above the miserable french
We used to live near Antibes but moved more toward Toulouse to get a more rural life and to get a ton of space to breath but in this move we ended up with slightly worse weather for winter, so we’re thinking of venturing back to aix en provence area for our permanent living and see if it stretches out the nicer weather long enough that we go back to just 6-8 week winters in spain, as by the time early march comes you definitely see an uptick in tourist english arriving in Estepona.
Anyway, progress was made, even if it was deleting spain as a buying possibility, will still go there in winters as the medical stuff in spain remains brilliant and accessible, which we plough through whilst there..
Yeah, if you’re not planning to live here permanently, it makes no sense to have a €2M property unless you have (effectively) unlimited funds. We ended up in a beachside villa at guadalmina for 6 weeks, quite like that area, one row back from beachfront meant we couldnt hear the A7, easy route for the gym which is important.
That established we started looking at villas and what we’d need to spend to get what we needed and 2m got a fairly decent / ex rental villa that we could do some work on and add some value.
Tbh though, we came away just feeling like we didnt want to be tied to a permanent villa, we like moving around and trying different things each winterand dont want to be tied to using our villa each year, i know we could just rent it out full or part time associated hassles of this and maintenance (when we already have our own large, high maintenance property) just started to feel like a ball ache tbh.
To be honest, we’re only there because the weather is better for winter, we dont actually like spain as much as france, the driving roads, historic quaintness, restaurants etc we much prefer in france, though i prefer the attitude and general happiness of the spanish over and above the miserable french
We used to live near Antibes but moved more toward Toulouse to get a more rural life and to get a ton of space to breath but in this move we ended up with slightly worse weather for winter, so we’re thinking of venturing back to aix en provence area for our permanent living and see if it stretches out the nicer weather long enough that we go back to just 6-8 week winters in spain, as by the time early march comes you definitely see an uptick in tourist english arriving in Estepona.
Anyway, progress was made, even if it was deleting spain as a buying possibility, will still go there in winters as the medical stuff in spain remains brilliant and accessible, which we plough through whilst there..
You can get a lot of rental weeks for the quarter of a million in taxes and fees and the subsequent annual running costs a property line that would cost.
What didnt work for us was the control it would have over us in terms of feeling obligated to stay their when it was our turn over winter, fine for a couple of years when its novel and we’re doing stuff to it on the improvements front..
after that? The fact that it would be free to stay there would in fact control your freedom to go elsewhere and we love trying new things constantly, so it would just become an obstacle to lifes adventure rather than stimulate it.
The mistake for us was starting out as looking at it as somewhere to put some cash & that would give a decent return, it actually would be, but we never gave a thought to the impact on our freedom to go wherever, whenever which is what we have now..
Like i said, it was a great learn and good insight on how we’ll move forward..
Tourist/Visitor visas for any country only stop people working locally in the country they are visiting.
You can still work for your own country remotely, as every person who ever goes on holiday does when they check an email or take a work phone call on holiday. Similarly, just about every business trip anywhere is done on a tourist Visa or Visa-waiver. So every time I visit Europe on business or the USA on business I'm doing so on an existing visa-waiver ESTA (USA) or no visa required (EU) and yet I'm still employed/working for my UK employer whilst there.
Nomad Visas are only required to allow you to stay the full year (eg more than 90/180 etc) but still only work remotely and Residency permits are to allow you to work the full year locally.
What your employer decides is acceptable (and chooses to be aware of) within their employment contract is entirely up to them of course.
You can still work for your own country remotely, as every person who ever goes on holiday does when they check an email or take a work phone call on holiday. Similarly, just about every business trip anywhere is done on a tourist Visa or Visa-waiver. So every time I visit Europe on business or the USA on business I'm doing so on an existing visa-waiver ESTA (USA) or no visa required (EU) and yet I'm still employed/working for my UK employer whilst there.
Nomad Visas are only required to allow you to stay the full year (eg more than 90/180 etc) but still only work remotely and Residency permits are to allow you to work the full year locally.
What your employer decides is acceptable (and chooses to be aware of) within their employment contract is entirely up to them of course.
Edited by Guyr on Saturday 9th March 08:47
Guyr said:
Tourist/Visitor visas for any country only stop people working locally in the country they are visiting.
You can still work for your own country remotely, as every person who ever goes on holiday does when they check an email or take a work phone call on holiday. Similarly, just about every business trip anywhere is done on a tourist Visa or Visa-waiver. So every time I visit Europe on business or the USA on business I'm doing so on an existing visa-waiver ESTA (USA) or no visa required (EU) and yet I'm still employed/working for my UK employer whilst there.
Nomad Visas are only required to allow you to stay the full year (eg more than 90/180 etc) but still only work remotely and Residency permits are to allow you to work the full year locally.
What your employer decides is acceptable (and chooses to be aware of) within their employment contract is entirely up to them of course.
You are confusing what is permitted with what people actually do.You can still work for your own country remotely, as every person who ever goes on holiday does when they check an email or take a work phone call on holiday. Similarly, just about every business trip anywhere is done on a tourist Visa or Visa-waiver. So every time I visit Europe on business or the USA on business I'm doing so on an existing visa-waiver ESTA (USA) or no visa required (EU) and yet I'm still employed/working for my UK employer whilst there.
Nomad Visas are only required to allow you to stay the full year (eg more than 90/180 etc) but still only work remotely and Residency permits are to allow you to work the full year locally.
What your employer decides is acceptable (and chooses to be aware of) within their employment contract is entirely up to them of course.
Do people on holiday work remotely on email and calls whilst they are there - some people certainly do.
However if you asked the authorities in that country whether it was legal to work remotely whilst living there for some months then what would the answer be - almost certainly it would not be and that a work visa was required. For example here is some detail from the German authorities on what is and is not permitted without a work visa - https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02/visa/professional-act...
Of course nobody in that country will actually be checking whether someone is working remotely, but that doesn't make it legal - and that is the issue for the UK company. They are undoubtably willing to ignore their staff working whilst on holiday, but if someone wants to live there long term and work, well that's a completely different issue as they won't want to be seen to be breaking the law.
Guyr said:
..... So every time I visit Europe on business or the USA on business I'm doing so on an existing visa-waiver ESTA (USA) or no visa required (EU) and yet I'm still employed/working for my UK employer whilst there.....
Be very careful - certainly with an ESTA you can't do 'meaningful work' - so you can attend training, internal meetings etc. which are considered business activities as opposed to actual work. We were always told that if asked at immigration, we were there for training and under no circumstances was the answer 'work'.Guyr said:
Tourist/Visitor visas for any country only stop people working locally in the country they are visiting.
You can still work for your own country remotely, as every person who ever goes on holiday does when they check an email or take a work phone call on holiday. Similarly, just about every business trip anywhere is done on a tourist Visa or Visa-waiver. So every time I visit Europe on business or the USA on business I'm doing so on an existing visa-waiver ESTA (USA) or no visa required (EU) and yet I'm still employed/working for my UK employer whilst there.
Nomad Visas are only required to allow you to stay the full year (eg more than 90/180 etc) but still only work remotely and Residency permits are to allow you to work the full year locally.
What your employer decides is acceptable (and chooses to be aware of) within their employment contract is entirely up to them of course.
Yeah this would be right at the bottom of my list of things to worry about. You can still work for your own country remotely, as every person who ever goes on holiday does when they check an email or take a work phone call on holiday. Similarly, just about every business trip anywhere is done on a tourist Visa or Visa-waiver. So every time I visit Europe on business or the USA on business I'm doing so on an existing visa-waiver ESTA (USA) or no visa required (EU) and yet I'm still employed/working for my UK employer whilst there.
Nomad Visas are only required to allow you to stay the full year (eg more than 90/180 etc) but still only work remotely and Residency permits are to allow you to work the full year locally.
What your employer decides is acceptable (and chooses to be aware of) within their employment contract is entirely up to them of course.
Edited by Guyr on Saturday 9th March 08:47
Me and wife are in a quandry - advice please!!!
We are in Gran Canaria and have seen an apartment we like but it’s 525k with quite high fees as it has lovely communal pools etc etc .
We focussed on Gran Canaria for the winter sun - swansea is awful in winter - just the chance to escape the rain a week at a time would be great !
BUT we haven’t organised local bank account or NIE number so would all be a rushed job to get this purchase through.
The other thing is that I have seen so many posts from southern Spain about how good the winter has Ben down there - I’m torn in so many different directions . . I do worry that if we bought in southern Spain we could go there for a week say in January and the weather be bad .
It seems like we need to rent for a month or 2 first until we know 100% what we want.
Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
Anyone been through similar ?
Sorry for confusing post !
We are in Gran Canaria and have seen an apartment we like but it’s 525k with quite high fees as it has lovely communal pools etc etc .
We focussed on Gran Canaria for the winter sun - swansea is awful in winter - just the chance to escape the rain a week at a time would be great !
BUT we haven’t organised local bank account or NIE number so would all be a rushed job to get this purchase through.
The other thing is that I have seen so many posts from southern Spain about how good the winter has Ben down there - I’m torn in so many different directions . . I do worry that if we bought in southern Spain we could go there for a week say in January and the weather be bad .
It seems like we need to rent for a month or 2 first until we know 100% what we want.
Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
Anyone been through similar ?
Sorry for confusing post !
swanseaboydan said:
Me and wife are in a quandry - advice please!!!
We are in Gran Canaria and have seen an apartment we like but it’s 525k with quite high fees as it has lovely communal pools etc etc .
We focussed on Gran Canaria for the winter sun - swansea is awful in winter - just the chance to escape the rain a week at a time would be great !
BUT we haven’t organised local bank account or NIE number so would all be a rushed job to get this purchase through.
The other thing is that I have seen so many posts from southern Spain about how good the winter has Ben down there - I’m torn in so many different directions . . I do worry that if we bought in southern Spain we could go there for a week say in January and the weather be bad .
It seems like we need to rent for a month or 2 first until we know 100% what we want.
Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
Anyone been through similar ?
Sorry for confusing post !
Well putting down over half a million fro something to be iused only 1 or 2 months a year seems a lot. But that really is a personal choice.We are in Gran Canaria and have seen an apartment we like but it’s 525k with quite high fees as it has lovely communal pools etc etc .
We focussed on Gran Canaria for the winter sun - swansea is awful in winter - just the chance to escape the rain a week at a time would be great !
BUT we haven’t organised local bank account or NIE number so would all be a rushed job to get this purchase through.
The other thing is that I have seen so many posts from southern Spain about how good the winter has Ben down there - I’m torn in so many different directions . . I do worry that if we bought in southern Spain we could go there for a week say in January and the weather be bad .
It seems like we need to rent for a month or 2 first until we know 100% what we want.
Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
Anyone been through similar ?
Sorry for confusing post !
Bank Accounts & NIE numbers can be sorted while the purchase goes through. We had the NIEs done by the lawyer doing the conveyancing & they made the introductions for then bank accounts.
Regarding weather in southern Spain. I was there for a few weeks over christmas; it was perfect. T shirts & shorts. Was also there up to last weekend for a couple of weeks. Again great weather. Left my wife there. It started raining Sunday & has been raining on/off ever since! So its probably a bit hit/miss.
swanseaboydan said:
It seems like we need to rent for a month or 2 first until we know 100% what we want.
Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
I think these 2 points are key to how you decide going forward. Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
You probably wouldn't buy a house in the UK on a whim, so why do it overseas? You need to experiment and use trial and error; I'd certainly recommend trying lots of different places before committing big money.
The rent vs buy issue is also key. If you rent, a lot of the admin nause goes away, as well as the need for a major up-front investment.
swanseaboydan said:
Me and wife are in a quandry - advice please!!!
We are in Gran Canaria and have seen an apartment we like but it’s 525k with quite high fees as it has lovely communal pools etc etc .
We focussed on Gran Canaria for the winter sun - swansea is awful in winter - just the chance to escape the rain a week at a time would be great !
BUT we haven’t organised local bank account or NIE number so would all be a rushed job to get this purchase through.
The other thing is that I have seen so many posts from southern Spain about how good the winter has Ben down there - I’m torn in so many different directions . . I do worry that if we bought in southern Spain we could go there for a week say in January and the weather be bad .
It seems like we need to rent for a month or 2 first until we know 100% what we want.
Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
Anyone been through similar ?
Sorry for confusing post !
You can buy a property in Spain without an NIE, your lawyer can quickly provide you with an NIF ( tax number equivalent ) which, with your passports, is sufficient - we did this last October / November and didn't get our NIE's till this February when we moved here having obtained our visas.We are in Gran Canaria and have seen an apartment we like but it’s 525k with quite high fees as it has lovely communal pools etc etc .
We focussed on Gran Canaria for the winter sun - swansea is awful in winter - just the chance to escape the rain a week at a time would be great !
BUT we haven’t organised local bank account or NIE number so would all be a rushed job to get this purchase through.
The other thing is that I have seen so many posts from southern Spain about how good the winter has Ben down there - I’m torn in so many different directions . . I do worry that if we bought in southern Spain we could go there for a week say in January and the weather be bad .
It seems like we need to rent for a month or 2 first until we know 100% what we want.
Also, if it is only for a month or 2 per Year maybe we should be renting - no bills / paperwork to worry about ?
Anyone been through similar ?
Sorry for confusing post !
Bank accounts again can be opened online or in person using your passport, you just give them the NIE when you eventually receive it.
Renting is your best friend in reality, you aren't tied to one property or even one region and anything that needs sorting, such as insurance, bills, property tax, maintenance etc. is someone else's problem until you're happy you've found somewhere you're confident about buying.
Good luck!
Half a million seems a lot to me for an apartment, but I don’t know the area.
Apart from the high fees you mention, ask yourself how you feel about throwing away 50k on stamp duty on a rushed decision. Maybe fine if you don’t intend to sell anytime, but if you aren’t 100% committed to the idea and decide to sell in a few years would selling for what you paid be an issue?
On the flip side, owning something rather than renting, definitely has its not financial perks. It’s fantastic knowing that we never need to check anything in at the airport and in fact can just travel with a passport and a set of keys. Oh and there’s beers waiting in the fridge
Apart from the high fees you mention, ask yourself how you feel about throwing away 50k on stamp duty on a rushed decision. Maybe fine if you don’t intend to sell anytime, but if you aren’t 100% committed to the idea and decide to sell in a few years would selling for what you paid be an issue?
On the flip side, owning something rather than renting, definitely has its not financial perks. It’s fantastic knowing that we never need to check anything in at the airport and in fact can just travel with a passport and a set of keys. Oh and there’s beers waiting in the fridge
Edited by eyebeebe on Thursday 28th March 09:22
You only live once. But you’d need to check the place out fully - what’s it like in august - rammed with renters and noisy? What’s it like in winter - decent heating etc? How much have those fees risen and are they likely to keep going up? Ideally you’d rent in the area first to get an idea of if it’ll work for you. Medical support, supermarkets, car parking, access to airport etc.
Your Lawyer can get power of attorney to do everything remotely in Portugal - sounds like it’s the same in Spain.
On the other hand we visited the area of Portugal we bought in for about three hours in total before buying…
Your Lawyer can get power of attorney to do everything remotely in Portugal - sounds like it’s the same in Spain.
On the other hand we visited the area of Portugal we bought in for about three hours in total before buying…
Add up the annual fixed costs of ownership (community fees, utilities, property taxes, wealth tax etc), add on the taxes and fees associated with buying, a bit for annual maintenance, plus cost of furnishing to taste…. Subtract rental income and management fees (should you choose to rent it)… How many weeks of rentals can you get?
If that number makes financial sense to you then start looking at areas you’d like to live and specific properties.
Currently 14* with horizontal rain in Marbella (has been like this for a few days and forecast to continue for another 3 or 4 days), but it was 23* last week and we currently have water use restrictions as we’ve had so little rain over the last 12 months.
If that number makes financial sense to you then start looking at areas you’d like to live and specific properties.
Currently 14* with horizontal rain in Marbella (has been like this for a few days and forecast to continue for another 3 or 4 days), but it was 23* last week and we currently have water use restrictions as we’ve had so little rain over the last 12 months.
andy43 said:
Your Lawyer can get power of attorney to do everything remotely in Portugal - sounds like it’s the same in Spain.
That's what we did (for both buying and selling). The power of attorney has to be signed in front of a Notary Public though, so you can't organise that remotely. ISTR anyway. I'll never forget the experience. How could you forget someone called Don Filiberto Carrillo de Albornoz Fisac? Proper old money.Gassing Station | Holidays & Travel | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff