buying an apartment in spain
Discussion
Chris Stott said:
Not heard back from them yet, but it’s likely to be a massive risk… committing to buy a €1m+ property, plus all the taxes and fees, with the risk the Spanish government may cancel the visa program before you complete everything.
Plus you have to buy the property and obtain medical insurance, before you can even start the process.I agree, until things become clearer, it would be incredibly risky.
Possibly a bit of good news for those of us who have one.
https://cincodias.elpais.com/economia/2024-04-09/e...
Things should become much clearer in 6-months
https://cincodias.elpais.com/economia/2024-04-09/e...
Things should become much clearer in 6-months
eyebeebe said:
Some interesting stats in the BBC article. It's been going for 11 years and around 6,000 visas have been issued because of property purchase. There's no way that has had a material impact on the housing market. It's been stopped because it was too easy for undesirables to get European residency.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68761491
No idea about these extreme politics. It took my sibling about 13 years to become a spanish citizen, and she runs multiple retail stores in Spain (and employing dozens of people). Anyone would also know that, it has never been easy to purchase a property in Spain (well at least in prime areas). Even in post 2008, some properties were held back from the market and not sold below asking prices.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68761491
rdjohn said:
Possibly a bit of good news for those of us who have one.
https://cincodias.elpais.com/economia/2024-04-09/e...
Things should become much clearer in 6-months
Interesting how few have actually been given & very few for Brits.https://cincodias.elpais.com/economia/2024-04-09/e...
Things should become much clearer in 6-months
rdjohn said:
Chris Stott said:
Not heard back from them yet, but it’s likely to be a massive risk… committing to buy a €1m+ property, plus all the taxes and fees, with the risk the Spanish government may cancel the visa program before you complete everything.
Plus you have to buy the property and obtain medical insurance, before you can even start the process.I agree, until things become clearer, it would be incredibly risky.
Immigration lawyer and estate agent both said it was too risky to try and beat the clock.
Taxes and fees for the purchase would have been around 6 figures, and they’d likely be left with a million euro + property they can’t use when they want.
Didn't realise it was as low as only 177 visa to brits between 2013 to 2021. Although since Covid (everyone becoming rich) I'm guessing it was in danger of increasing 10-fold. Interesting take - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGloftFOCOw
This throws another spanner in the works for us as we're planning a wholesale move to Spain. Will probably have to rent for a v long time and try to extend the digital nomad visa ... so could be too risky to purchase a house.
Lets see what actually happens ... we're happy to live full time and pay tax in Spain, its just a shame that a large proportion of foreigners that want golden visa have no intention of living there and contributing to the economy. I imagine most Brits also want the former ...
Lets see what actually happens ... we're happy to live full time and pay tax in Spain, its just a shame that a large proportion of foreigners that want golden visa have no intention of living there and contributing to the economy. I imagine most Brits also want the former ...
We recently went through the Golden Visa process. It was ultimately refused because our lawyer (with PoA) messed up some tax stuff a few years back.
We could restart now all that is concluded, but I honestly can't be bothered. So much beaurocracy. One issue we had was proving we were in Spain at the point of application, because we drive there. We applied in person a government office! I'm not surprised there are so few GVs issued to Brits.
If you get to 183(?) days you have to become resident for tax purposes, which then throws restrictions on how long you must be in Spain and not leave, almost the same as the GV situation but the other way around.
We won't be there more than half the time and if we get close we'll go somewhere else for a change like Asia or the USA until the days build up again.
On the bank account front, Sabadell are very good. The app is 1000% better than UK banks. Make sure you open the account where you live, not near the estate agent or lawyer, if they are a way away, as they do still like using a branch in Spain.
We could restart now all that is concluded, but I honestly can't be bothered. So much beaurocracy. One issue we had was proving we were in Spain at the point of application, because we drive there. We applied in person a government office! I'm not surprised there are so few GVs issued to Brits.
If you get to 183(?) days you have to become resident for tax purposes, which then throws restrictions on how long you must be in Spain and not leave, almost the same as the GV situation but the other way around.
We won't be there more than half the time and if we get close we'll go somewhere else for a change like Asia or the USA until the days build up again.
On the bank account front, Sabadell are very good. The app is 1000% better than UK banks. Make sure you open the account where you live, not near the estate agent or lawyer, if they are a way away, as they do still like using a branch in Spain.
Leithen said:
How difficult is progressing to residency from a nomad visa?
On paper, it looks straight forward ... initial 1 year visa and can be extended ... after 5 years you can apply for residency. I don't have any real world examples though but I'm sure there's plenty of red tape.Baldchap said:
We recently went through the Golden Visa process. It was ultimately refused because our lawyer (with PoA) messed up some tax stuff a few years back.
We could restart now all that is concluded, but I honestly can't be bothered. So much beaurocracy. One issue we had was proving we were in Spain at the point of application, because we drive there. We applied in person a government office! I'm not surprised there are so few GVs issued to Brits.
If you get to 183(?) days you have to become resident for tax purposes, which then throws restrictions on how long you must be in Spain and not leave, almost the same as the GV situation but the other way around.
We won't be there more than half the time and if we get close we'll go somewhere else for a change like Asia or the USA until the days build up again.
On the bank account front, Sabadell are very good. The app is 1000% better than UK banks. Make sure you open the account where you live, not near the estate agent or lawyer, if they are a way away, as they do still like using a branch in Spain.
Thanks for the info. Apart from work trips back to the UK and holidays, we'd be there permanently. Every extra year stuck in the UK just makes me realise how much I dislike it.We could restart now all that is concluded, but I honestly can't be bothered. So much beaurocracy. One issue we had was proving we were in Spain at the point of application, because we drive there. We applied in person a government office! I'm not surprised there are so few GVs issued to Brits.
If you get to 183(?) days you have to become resident for tax purposes, which then throws restrictions on how long you must be in Spain and not leave, almost the same as the GV situation but the other way around.
We won't be there more than half the time and if we get close we'll go somewhere else for a change like Asia or the USA until the days build up again.
On the bank account front, Sabadell are very good. The app is 1000% better than UK banks. Make sure you open the account where you live, not near the estate agent or lawyer, if they are a way away, as they do still like using a branch in Spain.
If you're genuinely moving there, becoming tax resident etc. then there should be no problem renewing & becoming resident. As with all things, the sooner you do it, the better.
Golden Visa is more for people who want the ability to be there but not become fully resident - either tax or physical. Some also want the 90/180 access to the EU that the British already have, which may explain the relatively low number of Brits who applied.
Golden Visa is more for people who want the ability to be there but not become fully resident - either tax or physical. Some also want the 90/180 access to the EU that the British already have, which may explain the relatively low number of Brits who applied.
Car bon said:
If you're genuinely moving there, becoming tax resident etc. then there should be no problem renewing & becoming resident. As with all things, the sooner you do it, the better.
Golden Visa is more for people who want the ability to be there but not become fully resident - either tax or physical. Some also want the 90/180 access to the EU that the British already have, which may explain the relatively low number of Brits who applied.
Golden visa is free of restrictions on days … but you would become a tax resident at 183 in one CY. Golden Visa is more for people who want the ability to be there but not become fully resident - either tax or physical. Some also want the 90/180 access to the EU that the British already have, which may explain the relatively low number of Brits who applied.
If you were buying a property anyway it is/was well worth applying for the Visa just to get around the consecutive days limit.
Chris Stott said:
Golden visa is free of restrictions on days … but you would become a tax resident at 183 in one CY.
If you were buying a property anyway it is/was well worth applying for the Visa just to get around the consecutive days limit.
Completely agree - but it also gives 90/180 to the rest of the EU - which is of value if you don't already have that.If you were buying a property anyway it is/was well worth applying for the Visa just to get around the consecutive days limit.
All I was saying is that if you fully intend to become a full permanent resident, then you don't really need the golden visa, a regular one will do just fine.
Car bon said:
Completely agree - but it also gives 90/180 to the rest of the EU - which is of value if you don't already have that.
All I was saying is that if you fully intend to become a full permanent resident, then you don't really need the golden visa, a regular one will do just fine.
What do you mean by a regular one? Out of the Uk you basically have the choice of:All I was saying is that if you fully intend to become a full permanent resident, then you don't really need the golden visa, a regular one will do just fine.
- Golden
- Digital Nomad
- Work
- NLV
GT03ROB said:
What do you mean by a regular one?
By 'regular' I meant the ones on your list - everything except 'Golden' which is the one that most of the other Schengen countries object to.In particular the Digital Nomad one as I was replying to this -
JEA1K said:
This throws another spanner in the works for us as we're planning a wholesale move to Spain. Will probably have to rent for a v long time and try to extend the digital nomad visa ... so could be too risky to purchase a house.
Lets see what actually happens ... we're happy to live full time and pay tax in Spain, its just a shame that a large proportion of foreigners that want golden visa have no intention of living there and contributing to the economy. I imagine most Brits also want the former ...
Lets see what actually happens ... we're happy to live full time and pay tax in Spain, its just a shame that a large proportion of foreigners that want golden visa have no intention of living there and contributing to the economy. I imagine most Brits also want the former ...
Car bon said:
If you're genuinely moving there, becoming tax resident etc. then there should be no problem renewing & becoming resident. As with all things, the sooner you do it, the better.
Golden Visa is more for people who want the ability to be there but not become fully resident - either tax or physical. Some also want the 90/180 access to the EU that the British already have, which may explain the relatively low number of Brits who applied.
Thanks ... thats interesting and means I've possibly mis-understood us going there. Our plan was:Golden Visa is more for people who want the ability to be there but not become fully resident - either tax or physical. Some also want the 90/180 access to the EU that the British already have, which may explain the relatively low number of Brits who applied.
DNV visa for 1-2 years - live in rented house
Once settled, obtain GV through 500k euro house purchase
Set up new business + work
So, what you're saying is that we could apply for resident status during our DNV period (subject to meeting the criteria) and then buy a property of any price on the basis that we are Spanish residents for tax purposes?
JEA1K said:
Thanks ... thats interesting and means I've possibly mis-understood us going there. Our plan was:
DNV visa for 1-2 years - live in rented house
Once settled, obtain GV through 500k euro house purchase
Set up new business + work
So, what you're saying is that we could apply for resident status during our DNV period (subject to meeting the criteria) and then buy a property of any price on the basis that we are Spanish residents for tax purposes?
Regarding DNV leading to permanent residency.... my understanding was the requirements were similar to through a NLV. So you need to be there 5 years, with no more than 10 months outside Spain in that period & no period outside to exceed 6 months.DNV visa for 1-2 years - live in rented house
Once settled, obtain GV through 500k euro house purchase
Set up new business + work
So, what you're saying is that we could apply for resident status during our DNV period (subject to meeting the criteria) and then buy a property of any price on the basis that we are Spanish residents for tax purposes?
This popped up on my FB earlier. I’d say it was a far larger driver of house price inflation than the golden visa.
Foreigners set another record in home buying: they were done with 15% of homes sold in 2023.
Registrar data certifies a new record in foreign purchases, driven by operations on the Mediterranean coast.
Foreigners bought more than 87,000 houses in Spain last year, on a total of 583,000 transactions. That means nearly 15% of homes sold ended up in the hands of a non-Hispanic buyer, a record in the historic series. Foreigners had never eaten so much of the real estate cake, improving the percentage in 2022 (13.75%, although they represented more homes in absolute terms because many more were sold that year). And this despite the three most frequent nationalities, British, German and French, lost weight. Three communities of the Mediterranean arc, Murcia, Valencian Community and Catalonia, led the growth.
According to the latest edition of the Real Estate Registry Yearbook, published this Wednesday, the Balearic Islands remains the territory where foreigners buy the most housing, a 31.5% of total, which means more than three out of every 10 homes sold. However, it is one of four communities (including the Canary Islands, Andalucia and Navarra) where foreigners lost market share in 2023. In all the others they won it, also setting a historic record. After the Balearic Islands, the Valencian Community (29.3%), Canary Islands (28.5%), Murcia (23.8%) and Catalonia (15.8%) appear as the communities that exceed the average percentage of foreign purchases, with Andalucia practically crossing that average of 15%.
The registrars' report highlights that Spain accumulates "two years with good results and intense growth, after five consecutive declines." And he values that “this fact consolidates foreign demand as a particularly relevant factor in terms of a strong home sales market.” Although the analysis does not relate it to specific causes, the distribution of foreign purchases, a factor that some experts relate to the increase in homes because it causes greater supply pressure, clearly points to two phenomena: purchases linked to tourism or people who want to retire in Spain and, on the other hand, the extraordinary pull of the labor market in recent years, with a great attraction of migrants.
By provinces, one more year Alicante is the leader in operations. Nearly 44% of homes that moved there by hand last year had a buyer of non-Spanish nationality.. Santa Cruz de Tenerife (35.7%) and Malaga (33.7%) were as follows. The Mediterranean coast and islands top 12 spots, all with percentages above 10%. In contrast, eight provinces (Segovia, Cáceres, Albacete, Badajoz, Salamanca, Cordoba, A Coruña and Ourense) had a sales weight of foreigners less than 2%.
https://acortar.link/My2d96
Foreigners set another record in home buying: they were done with 15% of homes sold in 2023.
Registrar data certifies a new record in foreign purchases, driven by operations on the Mediterranean coast.
Foreigners bought more than 87,000 houses in Spain last year, on a total of 583,000 transactions. That means nearly 15% of homes sold ended up in the hands of a non-Hispanic buyer, a record in the historic series. Foreigners had never eaten so much of the real estate cake, improving the percentage in 2022 (13.75%, although they represented more homes in absolute terms because many more were sold that year). And this despite the three most frequent nationalities, British, German and French, lost weight. Three communities of the Mediterranean arc, Murcia, Valencian Community and Catalonia, led the growth.
According to the latest edition of the Real Estate Registry Yearbook, published this Wednesday, the Balearic Islands remains the territory where foreigners buy the most housing, a 31.5% of total, which means more than three out of every 10 homes sold. However, it is one of four communities (including the Canary Islands, Andalucia and Navarra) where foreigners lost market share in 2023. In all the others they won it, also setting a historic record. After the Balearic Islands, the Valencian Community (29.3%), Canary Islands (28.5%), Murcia (23.8%) and Catalonia (15.8%) appear as the communities that exceed the average percentage of foreign purchases, with Andalucia practically crossing that average of 15%.
The registrars' report highlights that Spain accumulates "two years with good results and intense growth, after five consecutive declines." And he values that “this fact consolidates foreign demand as a particularly relevant factor in terms of a strong home sales market.” Although the analysis does not relate it to specific causes, the distribution of foreign purchases, a factor that some experts relate to the increase in homes because it causes greater supply pressure, clearly points to two phenomena: purchases linked to tourism or people who want to retire in Spain and, on the other hand, the extraordinary pull of the labor market in recent years, with a great attraction of migrants.
By provinces, one more year Alicante is the leader in operations. Nearly 44% of homes that moved there by hand last year had a buyer of non-Spanish nationality.. Santa Cruz de Tenerife (35.7%) and Malaga (33.7%) were as follows. The Mediterranean coast and islands top 12 spots, all with percentages above 10%. In contrast, eight provinces (Segovia, Cáceres, Albacete, Badajoz, Salamanca, Cordoba, A Coruña and Ourense) had a sales weight of foreigners less than 2%.
https://acortar.link/My2d96
JEA1K said:
So, what you're saying is that we could apply for resident status during our DNV period (subject to meeting the criteria) and then buy a property of any price on the basis that we are Spanish residents for tax purposes?
Close, there's still a timeframe/process - you keep renewing the DNV for 5 years. DNV might be withdrawn in the future, but generally that's only for new applicants & as long as you renew, would be OK.Gives you more flexibility on property - but the down side is you need to be properly committed to Spain, but sounds like you are.
GT03ROB said:
Regarding DNV leading to permanent residency.... my understanding was the requirements were similar to through a NLV. So you need to be there 5 years, with no more than 10 months outside Spain in that period & no period outside to exceed 6 months.
Sounds about right - I'm still considering a NLV, but my wife prefers France...... so we'll most likely end up staying in France. We have a place in Andorra for the winter, so it's the limit on the time outside of Spain that would cause us the problem. IIRC it's an annual renewal x 4 then after year 5 you can get 'permanent' residency, which needs renewing after 10 years. After the initial 5 years, the time outside Spain relaxes a bit more, but is still there.
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