Driving to Japan

[tight fart]

One of the sad things about the world is you’d think this trip would be a lot easier now than it was 70 years ago.

In 1955, six undergraduates set out from London in two Land Rovers on an epic expedition into the unknown. The destination was Singapore and the prize was a place in history. One of the team, Tim Slessor, shares his memories of how the trip came together.

https://www.landrover.com/explore-land-rover/the-i...

[21st Century Man]

Thanks for that.

I'm currently reading Coleman's Drive. Argentina to New York in an Austin 7 in the nineteen fifties.

And yes, one would think these things would be much easier now! But politics and war, as ever.

[Snow and Rocks]

Regarding the morals of travelling through a certain country - please don't confuse the actions of the government with the views and actions of the people. I've spent a bit of time in countries with "questionable" leaders (Russia, Turkmenistan, Iran, Israel etc) and like I said earlier, the people have almost without fail been friendly and helpful. Probably far more so than you'd ever encounter in much of the UK.

Closer to home, I despise the current SNP government here in Scotland but would hope they would never put anyone off coming to visit us here in Aberdeenshire.

[tight fart]

It’s very odd that the people that govern us, whether voted for or not, seem to be the very worst of humanity.
Divide and rule.

[21st Century Man]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

This is a very interesting thread. I might have missed it, but has there been any mention of approximate total cost for the journey?

I know a route hasn't been finalised, so that has a bit of an influence, but it must cost heaps?

I've planned for 12,000 miles, that includes a generous tourism drift allowance. 6000 at European fuel costs and 6000 at Russian fuel costs.

Driving 6 hours a day at say 50mph = 300 miles a day which isn't really putting much effort in = 40 days. But I won't be driving every day, so call it 60 days, two months.

Rough draft for food, a decent hotel a couple of days a week, campsites a couple of days a week, as well as stopping on aires, truck stops or wild camping. I'll probably end up on many a random driveway or garden as a guest too.

Eurotunnel, Donghae ferry, Fukuoka ferry, Visas, Carnets, clearances & permits, vehicle & travel insurance etc.

I reckon on about £8k, but that's VERY over egged. If that's about right or it ends up less, fine. If it ends up at £10k that's fine too. If it all goes to st (eg vehicle write off) I'll just have to bail, walk away (hopefully) and just come home.

Additional costs will be incurred for the cleaner stretches where my wife may well join me, which will be the European leg and the Korean leg (if touring for a few weeks rather than going directly from Donghae to Busan).

All subject of course to making the agonising decision to transit Russia

[CivicDuties]

21st Century Man said:

All subject of course to making the agonising decision to transit Russia

I know you keep saying this about the moral aspect, but are you really not considering the risk of being arrested or the like?

[21st Century Man]

Yes, I'm considering it, of course. But if one joins and takes a look at the various overland forums and reads the accounts from Westerners there right now, their experiences don't really fit. There are hundreds transiting Russia on the adventurer overland route to Kazakhstan and mongolia. The biker groups are on organised tours, organised by Western companies (The French seem to be a fairly big contingent). Unless they're all Russian bots and AI, or useful idiots? Deeper inland and further East, away from the Silk Road Route though it may indeed be different. I'll be making further enquiries and certainly speaking to the Russian Embassy as part of the assessment. I note the advice of the Foreign Office, ditto also other Western Nations, however the blogs, vlogs, YouTube stuff is at odds with it. My cynicism may well be my undoing (If I go).

There's an online meeting on Thursday I'll be having a look at, a Q&A for Western overlanders and tourists. As I said before, it's a parallel universe, it's hard to get ones head around the seeming normalcy of the travellers and this type of discourse. Puzzling stuff.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Are you planning on doing this solo?

[21st Century Man]

Fancy shotgun?

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Too right i do!

I was just thinking I'd love to do this.

[LRDefender]

CivicDuties said:

21st Century Man said:

All subject of course to making the agonising decision to transit Russia

I know you keep saying this about the moral aspect, but are you really not considering the risk of being arrested or the like?

I think an unexpected arrest for being a British tourist is highly unlikely, even in Russia.

[RichFN2]

LRDefender said:

CivicDuties said:

21st Century Man said:

All subject of course to making the agonising decision to transit Russia

I know you keep saying this about the moral aspect, but are you really not considering the risk of being arrested or the like?

I think an unexpected arrest for being a British tourist is highly unlikely, even in Russia.

Bald and Bankrupt was, and I believe is unable to enter Russia at the moment.

He is a YouTube vlogger so would have been potentially filming, and he also has visited Ukraine in the past.

[21st Century Man]

It may well be a pointless thread anyway, despite starting it and the great contributions by posters. My main thought isn't the practicalities or any potential personal risk. I just keep thinking "Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine. You can't go through Russia or have anything to do with Russia". But I don't like to be defeatist, give in and be beaten. Even if there's a resolution in the next year or two, I can't see relations getting back to a prewar footing any time soon thereafter anyway.

Edited by 21st Century Man on Monday 15th April 19:52

[RichFN2]

Someone mentioned about the mongolia to Shanghai freight route which could be worth exploring. Although when I googled it sounded like the Shanghai to Japan ferry was only once a week (although your not in much of a hurry)

I would take the view that you are travelling through Russia as it's in the way and you have to, it's very different to being pro Putin and supporting him.

To do this journey you will have to travel through some countries with some rather unpleasant history attached to them. Turkey, China, Azerbaijan, Russia, mongolia and even Japan. And that's without looking at Europe.

[fridaypassion]

Funnily enough I just watched Spaghetti Road's excellent mini series where he drive to the Chinese border in an old Pug 306. He went down via Turkey and through Iran. Not sure if Iran is more or less dangerous than it was in 2021? The other big challenge was getting a visa for Turkmenestan. Can you get into China in a car? In the Spaghetti Road vids I'm sure he mentioned having to pay to have a chaperone to sit in with you.

Sounds like it is possible...maybe.

[andyA700]

Snow and Rocks said:

Regarding the morals of travelling through a certain country - please don't confuse the actions of the government with the views and actions of the people. I've spent a bit of time in countries with "questionable" leaders (Russia, Turkmenistan, Iran, Israel etc) and like I said earlier, the people have almost without fail been friendly and helpful. Probably far more so than you'd ever encounter in much of the UK.

Closer to home, I despise the current SNP government here in Scotland but would hope they would never put anyone off coming to visit us here in Aberdeenshire.

That is probably the most sensible post so far.
Cheers.

[blueST]

Anyone interested in watching a couple that have done this journey and much more might enjoy this YouTube channel

https://youtube.com/@GrizzlyNbearOverland?si=bpiyi...

[fridaypassion]

andyA700 said:

That is probably the most sensible post so far.
Cheers.

Indeed.. The Russ Cook mission was an eye opener all these countries you certainly would think of taking the kids on holiday... The hospitality and good will they got was absolutely amazing.

[CivicDuties]

21st Century Man said:

Yes, I'm considering it, of course. But if one joins and takes a look at the various overland forums and reads the accounts from Westerners there right now, their experiences don't really fit. There are hundreds transiting Russia on the adventurer overland route to Kazakhstan and mongolia. The biker groups are on organised tours, organised by Western companies (The French seem to be a fairly big contingent). Unless they're all Russian bots and AI, or useful idiots? Deeper inland and further East, away from the Silk Road Route though it may indeed be different. I'll be making further enquiries and certainly speaking to the Russian Embassy as part of the assessment. I note the advice of the Foreign Office, ditto also other Western Nations, however the blogs, vlogs, YouTube stuff is at odds with it. My cynicism may well be my undoing (If I go).

There's an online meeting on Thursday I'll be having a look at, a Q&A for Western overlanders and tourists. As I said before, it's a parallel universe, it's hard to get ones head around the seeming normalcy of the travellers and this type of discourse. Puzzling stuff.

Fair enough. I would consider the risks of falling foul of the Authorities as the highest possible, simply because it happened to me in the USSR when I was travelling thorough it many years ago. The Police and their approach hasn't changed since the USSR ceased to exist, it's just the badge and flags which are different.

It is fairly common for travellers to be stopped by the fuzz, told they're in trouble for *made up rubbish*, and told they can avoid being arrested and put in front of a court if they would "pay a fine" on the spot. Once you have paid this imaginary "fine", and of course informed the nice officer where you're heading next, he will be on the phone to his pals at the next town you're passing through and he will be looking out for you in order to hit you with the next "fine" for *made up rubbish*. This happened to me, and I was on a train. The train was even stopped a couple of times between stations for Police to board and come looking for me to get their slice of the action.

Of course, if this happens to you, you can just put it down to "expenses", and you'll make it out in one piece. But what I'd not enjoy at the moment is the inevitable discomforting feeling that may *this* nice officer isn't just after his "fine", but may well be looking to get hold of a foreigner and subject them to either extrajudicial measures or a real court appearance to make a name for himself.

I'm sure as you say many tourists are out there at the moment. But it only takes one thing to sideways and end very, very badly for someone. It's perhaps a low probability, but the impact of the risk materialising could be catastrophic.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Jonmx]

A trip I've often pondered making, and still hope to one day do something similar.
With potential Russian and 'rogue state' passages, have you explored the implications around travel insurance, and also the issues around internet and mobile phone coverage?