I don't think anybody is in doubt that Jesus the man existed. You're right, there is plenty of evidence to suggest he did. What's disputed is whether he was the son of God born of a virgin or whether he was an normal bloke who just happened to gather a large following around him with the help of some close friends.

Erm, I am.

Well said.


Regards

DefinitelynotGodSquad, but a huge supporter of the freedom to believe whatever works for you, without being persecuted by smart-arses or nutters from either extreme.

Really?

If there's nothing "of you" before you were born and you're just magicked up out of air, what makes you think there will be something left after you've gone?

Cock Womble

I think the actual Jesus man certainly existed, forget his divinity for the moment. You have to agree, that sirley the whole Jesus figure wasn't created for entertainment purposes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

Therefore if he did exist, what was he saying and were might I look for evidence of this.

Well for one, he met many of the prophesies from the old testament, now he could have read these and just acted them out, and he did indeed have access to them so yes could have done.

However why would so many follow him, why would the Roman empire be so frightened of him, why would so many follow him, for so long and across the whole planet.

Now yes it could be all in out heads, but if so, never before and never again has one man done so much.

Now the counter argunment is to look at other religions, Muslim, Jewish etc, but rather than contradict Jesus many agree to his existence and some will talk of him being a prophet etc.

Old testament from Jewish Torah or other way around.

So a world wide believe, coming from vary different people, most of which hate each other and yet often agreeing on single god, many listing Jesus in their texts.

Evidence that Turin Shroud had been repaired, blood plasma, anatomical accurate portrayal of a crucifixion, blood stains on the face that match a cloth aged to at least 500 years before the carbon date....

Lots of evidence - even before the faith stuff....

Make your own judgement based on the facts, don't just say balls to it, its a good read in it's own right....

We're at cross purposes here then FG.

Are you saying your "bits" will live on after your death?

Most historians do believe that a man now known as Jesus did walk this earth at about the time the biblical figure was supposed to. I have little reason to doubt it even as a fervent athiest. It's the son of God, virgin birth, resurrection, performing miracles, second coming stuff I have a problem with.

That and the old testament, young earth, God created the earth and the Universe in 7 days and sits watching over us in heaven rubbish.

Problem is the Romans and the Jews of the time were rabid record keepers and yet records of the existance of an historic Jesus, outwith religious texts, are pretty much non existant - a few later insertions by Josephus notwithstanding.

Turin Shroud - no give it a second look, ask why, and how, http://www.frtommylane.com/homilies/pilgrimage/sud... face cloth that matches perfectly the shroud and is historically proven to exist BEFORE the earliest carbon date - that at least says the carbon date was wrong...

As for other stuff Jesus did, none of use can prove this, but do what I did, start with the real Jesus - read what he said, none of this bks about Catholic, of Chruch of England or this denomination or that one....

Remember Jesus hated religious types, that's why they killed him, he didn't want to talk to people who had faith, he wanted to get amongst those without.

Read what he talked about.

That's all, sure listen to Hawking, guy is smart, but don't reject this body of work simply because some tt in a jumper and sideburns comes knocking on your door....

Bugger off then. Some of us enjoy them: while they remain rational, calm and unheated at least.