"There is no heaven; it's a fairy story"

[CedGTV]

I don't like that Stephen Hawkings, as he has such a chip Chin on his shoulder.

[Pesty]

dundarach said:

And why does he need to pop down? What would he gain by convincing you, seriously why do you feel if there is a God he should come and tell you?

Sorry hope that doesn't sound aggressive...

because if it is all true and he showed his face the world would be a better place. I would like that kind of stuff. You know and end to all the killings and murders everybidy being nice to each other.

ps I am not dissmissing religeon. I asked a question based on things we know today. I am dissmissing your answer because it does not make sense to me. It sounds like something you would say because you don't know the answer.

I would like proof because I would like to know if its all true or not just an answer to a mystery.
But what I will not do is belive in something just because a book says so in the same way I do not belive the nice Nigerian man who sent me an email is not about to put 10,000,000 dollars in my bank.

dundarach said:

II think it's just a bit ignorant to dismiss something, simply because you have no interest - ..

If I had no interest I would not even have replied to this thread. To be honest that is not a very christian attitude is it. I was asking questions if you had provided one good enough answer I may have been convinced but as usual I was not. You are putting words in my mouth have I said it was bks?

Do I have a degree ? no, does that mean I am not allowed to ask questions or that I am not intelligent enough to think over your replies? for your information I have been fascinated by religeon all my life. I just don't happen to belive it because nobody has convinced me any of it makes any sense at all.

At this moment do I think people who belive need a kind of comfort blanket? yes. I do for many reassons for instance people turning to god just before death or at the death of a loved one it also seems to me that many unstable people turn to religeon a recent family freind being one.
Its a crutch it appears to me but only you know why you believe. I know i don't because nobody has convinced me otherwise.

Edited by Pesty on Monday 16th May 22:17

[Papa Hotel]

dundarach said:

I say chaps, you're doing a top job winding me up.

Dude, you don't have to justify yourself to a load of internet people. You've declared your faith, you've not denied it, you've done your bit. Now leave it, the atheists are an over-zealous bunch, they'll keep coming as long as you keep replying to them. fk 'em I say.

[AlVal]

dundarach said:

And guys - go read my first post about attacking me - stop proving my point over and over again - I'm not a troll, been around this site for a while now - I'm entitled to a believe - yours is just as unprovable as mine remember....

Lets discuss this like adults, or alternatively call me names like children!!!!

You go to tarot card readings, sucker. You're like a drunk looking for a fight with a pro boxer.

[dundarach]

Papa Hotel said:

dundarach said:

I say chaps, you're doing a top job winding me up.

Dude, you don't have to justify yourself to a load of internet people. You've declared your faith, you've not denied it, you've done your bit. Now leave it, the atheists are an over-zealous bunch, they'll keep coming as long as you keep replying to them. fk 'em I say.

Truth = Dundarach is sat watching South Park, drinking a beer, whilst pregnant wife is sound asleep - happy days...!

Not wound up at all, but I do find it amusing that people call me names like school kids....

[dundarach]

Petsy - thanks for taking the time to discuss...

I know what you mean about sorting the earth out - trouble is that he kind of left it too us, punishment for the whole disobeying thing.

And one of the 10 commandments does say - Do not test the lord your god.

Seeing things from both sides, the commandments do a top job of stopping me having to answer anything, and you finding anything that can't be answered by them.

[andr3w]

dundarach said:

yours is just as unprovable as mine remember....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignoran...

[Dan_1981]

andr3w said:

dundarach said:

yours is just as unprovable as mine remember....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignoran...

DING

One point in religion thread bingo. Bertrand Russell.

[dundarach]

andr3w said:

dundarach said:

yours is just as unprovable as mine remember....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignoran...

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that You exist, and so therefore, by Your own arguments, You don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

[andr3w]

dundarach said:

Pesty said:

dundarach said:

Can I ask in all seriousness - have you ever done anything other than dismiss religion?

Sorry can you be more specific?

I just wondered how many people, without any interest in religion genuinely read and dismissed everything. I've a friend who studied such things for their degree and disregarded everything, however at least I feel they are justified to tell me its all ballcocks...

I think it's just a bit ignorant to dismiss something, simply because you have no interest - I have no interest in BMW's however to say they're crap would be wrong - I've owned a few as company cars, however have no interest, but fully understand why other people would have....

However never driven a porsche can't comment without sounding like a fool on what they're like to drive....

We dismiss all kinds of supernatural claims without looking deep into them. Why single out religious supernatural claims.

[dundarach]

andr3w said:

We dismiss all kinds of supernatural claims without looking deep into them. Why single out religious supernatural claims.

Because we're currently discussing religion ain’t we....????

Agreed however - but there are lots of investigations into the supernatural too, you are however very right, don't rule anything out without considering all the evidence and information.

[Timsta]

Creation week may not have been a week by our standards, but that's just a small issue compared to the ancestors leading to Moses, the purported author of Genesis.

This is the path from Adam to Moses: Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem, Arphaxad, Shalah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abram (Abraham), Issac, Jacob, Levi, Kohath, Amram, Moses.

I can't see that happening over thousands of years. Now, in only 29 generations, they developed mathematics and writing as well? I can't see it myself.

[Pesty]

dundarach said:

Petsy - thanks for taking the time to discuss...

I know what you mean about sorting the earth out - trouble is that he kind of left it too us, punishment for the whole disobeying thing.

And one of the 10 commandments does say - Do not test the lord your god.

Seeing things from both sides, the commandments do a top job of stopping me having to answer anything, and you finding anything that can't be answered by them.

The comandments are a good set of rules from memory(ist a long time since I read parts of the bible)

What I would say is you don't need a religeon to have good rules. For one I don't like the forced part do right or go to hell. I would rather people act because thats how you should behave.

I 'try' to live by some rules simple ones like treat people like you would like to be treated. I don't need a god to understand, that is a good principle.

I do love a good discussion on this subject however experience tells me PH is not a good place for it.

[andr3w]

dundarach said:

andr3w said:

We dismiss all kinds of supernatural claims without looking deep into them. Why single out religious supernatural claims.

Because we're currently discussing religion ain’t we....????

Agreed however - but there are lots of investigations into the supernatural too, you are however very right, don't rule anything out without considering all the evidence and information.

I say why single them out because it seems that you have chosen a tiny subset of all supernatural claims and decided that they are true but have rejected all the others. We simply reject all of them including yours.

If I tell you that I can cast spells and turn humans into frogs, I would expect you not to believe me. I wouldn't expect you to say, well, I'll have to go and do all my research into witchcraft and get back to you. You automatically and instinctively reject my claim just as we do with your magical god.

[dundarach]

Timsta said:

Creation week may not have been a week by our standards, but that's just a small issue compared to the ancestors leading to Moses, the purported author of Genesis.

This is the path from Adam to Moses: Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem, Arphaxad, Shalah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abram (Abraham), Issac, Jacob, Levi, Kohath, Amram, Moses.

I can't see that happening over thousands of years. Now, in only 29 generations, they developed mathematics and writing as well? I can't see it myself.

Timsta - sorry man got to get to bed in a mo - sorry so are you saying that you read this bit as creating everything in these 29 generations, or that from Adam as the first man to Moses.

If you believe in the missing link and creation from single cells to man, I guess it's where you place Adam.

Adam the monkey man, or did God step in a some point and say - right evolved enough - but then again what about all the other monkey men, why pick Adam - that's a bit like 2001 with the monolith, Adam is that monkey man...

Trouble is, everything can be bent and twisted by each side.

If however God dropped Adam into this evolving world it'd make a bit more sense, but then my old pre-Christian mind says hold on chap you're talking rubbish...

For anyone that thinks I'm a blinded Christian you'd be very wrong....

[dundarach]

Petsy - PH's is as good as any - just ignore the idiots - and they call me a troll....!

Thanks for taking the time to chat!

[dundarach]

Right, best go - thanks to all from the token, vocal Christian, to those who wanted this forum to be - well a forum.

Cheers folks!

[Pesty]

Timsta said:

Creation week may not have been a week by our standards, but that's just a small issue compared to the ancestors leading to Moses, the purported author of Genesis.

This is the path from Adam to Moses: Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem, Arphaxad, Shalah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abram (Abraham), Issac, Jacob, Levi, Kohath, Amram, Moses.

I can't see that happening over thousands of years. Now, in only 29 generations, they developed mathematics and writing as well? I can't see it myself.

I have asked that before and it was answered thusly. They lived clean lives and ate what god told them to, so they lived hundreds of years*

can remember exactly but we only get the four score and ten because we don;t live teh way god wants something like that.

But yes again the answer did not convince me.

also IIRC the person who told me all that also said i was possesed and that she would prey to Jesus for me.(she was also known to start babling in the presence of witches)

[PoleDriver]

Pesty said:

also IIRC the person who told me all that also said i was possesed and that she would prey to Jesus for me.(she was also known to start babling in the presence of witches)

Freudian slip?

[Ben3883]

dundarach said:

And one of the 10 commandments does say - Do not test the lord your god.

You've gotta admit that it takes the piss slightly to create a species that is driven by inquisition and curiosity and then tell your creation it isn't allowed to question you.


Belief is just that: belief. In my heart I simply can't believe, accept or have faith in the story presented by any one religion. Mostly because apart from anything else, they simply can't ALL be right.

It can't be denied however that most religions regardless of where in the world they originated are fundamentally quite similar and based on a common theme.
If it were possible it's that buried, twisted and long lost common truth that I would be interested in learning about.