"There is no heaven; it's a fairy story"

[joe_90]

ewenm said:

Gaspode said:

joe_90 said:

What channel is 'off' on a tv matt?

All the channels on my TV are off. What do you mean?

I think he's saying the various religions are analogous to TV channels and the atheist position is not another channel but is turning the TV off. I quite like that analogy.

Correct Off is also the default, how you are born.. (but I suspect that would be argued), its how I look at it.

Or, I do not like football, or support it, and have never been to a game. So am I still a supporter in any way shape or form? You cannot say I am a non-football supporter, but still a supporter.

Edited by joe_90 on Wednesday 2nd May 08:49

[TheHeretic]

You think after all this time he will take it in? He has been told countless times what atheism actually means, but he is having none of it, (probably because Ken Ham, or Kent Hovind told him otherwise).

[Phil1]

For atheism to equal anti-theism, a lack of belief in a deity you've never heard of must actually be an active belief that the deity you've never heard of doesn't exist. As an atheist, how do I know I'm actively disbelieving in enough deities!? It's a worry.

[joe_90]

Phil1 said:

For atheism to equal anti-theism, a lack of belief in a deity you've never heard of must actually be an active belief that the deity you've never heard of doesn't exist. As an atheist, how do I know I'm actively disbelieving in enough deities!? It's a worry.

you lack faith...

[Phil1]

joe_90 said:

you lack faith...

I've been won over by the convincing arguments, and now I'm starting to think I'm getting this atheism thing wrong. I need a 'good book', and a leader with the pointy hat to listen to. We do have those in our club don't we? Then I'd get it right. I need someone or something to tell me what to do and what to think.

[TheHeretic]

Phil1 said:

I've been won over by the convincing arguments, and now I'm starting to think I'm getting this atheism thing wrong. I need a 'good book', and a leader with the pointy hat to listen to. We do have those in our club don't we? Then I'd get it right. I need someone or something to tell me what to do and what to think.

And lo, and answer came forth

http://dudeism.com/

[Phil1]

I'm still worried I'm not actively disbelieving every god though. I won't feel a proper atheist until I do. I've found this list but I'm not sure I can remember all of them, and it's not even complete.

list of gods

How much time should I devote to disbelieving in each one each day?

[NobleGuy]

fluffnik said:

NobleGuy said:

My point from the beginning was that "magic hydra" and "wicker buffalo" aren't as likely as God to be a creator

Yes they are.

They're all vanishingly unlikely to be creators.

I've already shown through logic that this not the case.
The problem I have with the 'scientific extremists' is that they think because they know about science that this precludes the possibility of a God. Which is doesn't. I suppose I'm in the agnostic camp - I don't believe, but I'm also not so arrogant that I believe the physical world we see cannot have been created. Even if the Big Bang is proven, which we've all admitted it hasn't, will it ever be shown that a creator was the root cause? No, because it's unproveable... We can huff and puff about how illi

fluffnik said:

Sadly it is quite difficult or even impossible to point out to someone, even showing the working, that their world view is delusional nonsense without risking upset.

True to a certain extent.

fluffnik said:

The terms used are therefore necessarily derogatory.

I don't really agree. I find it easy to talk to those guys who knock on my door and point out their pseudo-scientific arguments are flawed without resorting to calling them delusional, mad, mentally ill or anything else.

fluffnik said:

NobleGuy said:

My whole point was that carmonk is a p***k. Do you not understand this yet...?

...and this demonstrates the existence of heaven how???

I'm not trying to prove anything either way. I'm trying to point out that while people may have strong beliefs they could sometimes do with a bit of humility. Others may be more likely to accommodate their views if it's said in a less patronising, vindictive way.

[joe_90]

Phil1 said:

I'm still worried I'm not actively disbelieving every god though. I won't feel a proper atheist until I do. I've found this list but I'm not sure I can remember all of them, and it's not even complete.

list of gods

How much time should I devote to disbelieving in each one each day?

You should believe in the one true god, Ra.. you can see him and the light he brings..

[TheHeretic]

joe_90 said:

You should believe in the one true god, Ra.. you can see him and the light he brings..

Do I have to sacrifice, (a common theme), somebody in order to get him to come back, or is that one of those other strangely named Gods? Oh, it is so confusing.

[carmonk]

NobleGuy said:

Others may be more likely to accommodate their views if it's said in a less patronising, vindictive way.

NobleGuy said:

carmonk is a prick

Ow!

I've just been hit in the face by the needle from my irony meter.

[ewenm]

joe_90 said:

You should believe in the one true god, Ra.. you can see him and the light he brings..

Seriously, if I were to be religious and felt I had to believe in something, worshipping the Sun would seem to be a good candidate. After all, the Sun (and other earlier stars) are the source of all elements and all energy (and hence life) on Earth.

The Sun demonstrably exists and continues to maintain (or grant if you will ) life on Earth.

Edit: In my sun-worship religion (Solism perhaps), we'd have four annual festivals:
One in the Summer to celebrate the height of our deity's powers;
One in the Winter to beg for the deity to return to Earth;
One in the Spring to celebrate the re-birth of life as granted by our deity; and
One in the Autumn to thank our deity for the bounteous harvest.

These would help integrate new followers as the Winter and Spring festivals are strikingly similar to ones the Christians practice anyway

Edited by ewenm on Wednesday 2nd May 11:05

[joe_90]

NobleGuy said:

I've already shown through logic that this not the case.
The problem I have with the 'scientific extremists' is that they think because they know about science that this precludes the possibility of a God. Which is doesn't. I suppose I'm in the agnostic camp - I don't believe, but I'm also not so arrogant that I believe the physical world we see cannot have been created. Even if the Big Bang is proven, which we've all admitted it hasn't, will it ever be shown that a creator was the root cause? No, because it's unproveable... We can huff and puff about how illi

Is that just not the god of gaps?

[joe_90]

TheHeretic said:

joe_90 said:

You should believe in the one true god, Ra.. you can see him and the light he brings..

Do I have to sacrifice, (a common theme), somebody in order to get him to come back, or is that one of those other strangely named Gods? Oh, it is so confusing.

Do you have any daughters of age?

[TheHeretic]

joe_90 said:

Do you have any daughters of age?

No. Would I need some as some sort of bargaining chip?

[joe_90]

TheHeretic said:

joe_90 said:

Do you have any daughters of age?

No. Would I need some as some sort of bargaining chip?

Hmm.. how many wives do you have?

[TheHeretic]

joe_90 said:

Hmm.. how many wives do you have?

How many am I allowed?

[NobleGuy]

carmonk said:

NobleGuy said:

Others may be more likely to accommodate their views if it's said in a less patronising, vindictive way.

NobleGuy said:

carmonk is a prick

Ow!

I've just been hit in the face by the needle from my irony meter.

And you still don't understand it's deliberate.
Irony if you like, but somehow I doubt you really get that...

It's a bit like on the dating thread when a chap was taking the piss out of the ladies contacting him, but he was nearly crying when I took the piss out of his profile in exactly the same way to point out my problem with it...

[NobleGuy]

joe_90 said:

NobleGuy said:

I've already shown through logic that this not the case.
The problem I have with the 'scientific extremists' is that they think because they know about science that this precludes the possibility of a God. Which is doesn't. I suppose I'm in the agnostic camp - I don't believe, but I'm also not so arrogant that I believe the physical world we see cannot have been created. Even if the Big Bang is proven, which we've all admitted it hasn't, will it ever be shown that a creator was the root cause? No, because it's unproveable... We can huff and puff about how illi

Is that just not the god of gaps?

It's reality, I've got no problem with the idea or the answer of "We don't know and may never do".

[enioldjoe]

ewenm said:

joe_90 said:

You should believe in the one true god, Ra.. you can see him and the light he brings..

Seriously, if I were to be religious and felt I had to believe in something, worshipping the Sun would seem to be a good candidate. After all, the Sun (and other earlier stars) are the source of all elements and all energy (and hence life) on Earth.

The Sun demonstrably exists and continues to maintain (or grant if you will ) life on Earth.

The Sun's energy needs to be directed though in order to produce increased organisation (regarding life).

You need an input of directed energy; energy plus information.

Maybe you need to consider worshipping the cause of all that energy and the source of the information in the Universe. The First Cause , according to the law of cause and effect, cannot be less than the sum total of that energy therefore it would be... omnipotent.