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Mark.H
3,214 posts
75 months
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freecar said: blindswelledrat said: Mark.H said: OP get your little man into some Martial Arts classes they're amazing fun, he'll develop lots of confidence and keep fit and make new friends and develop into an individual who can control his feelings and emotions better than before and last of all he'll be able to look after himself. I always see people say this kind of thing in response to bullying threads, and whilst there is a logical point to it, its far too late. Bully victims are largely weak- mentally and physically. Martial arts take years to get good at. YOu don't enrol and suddenly become really good at fighting from one day to the next. If the average bully discovered that a weakling victim had started to go to martial arts- its like a red-rag to a bull. It would become THE thing to bully him for. Terrible idea to anyone who has witnessed bully psychology Finally, some sense spoken. Martial arts will do nothing but make him even more of a target to these people. "Oh let's kick this kid in he thinks he's hard as he does karate!" Im sorry but that's complete b  ks and you both completely are missing my point. blindswelledrat said: Martial arts take years to get good at. YOu don't enrol and suddenly become really good at fighting from one day to the next. Who said the point of going to Martial Arts was to kick the kids ass and resolve this situation, or said that you do become really good over night? I didn't, so why are you quoting me? Infact I think you will find if you stop and read my post again you will see I recommend classes because they're fun and would be great developing the lads own confidence (which is an area the OP stated his son struggled with). I even went so far as to list the actual act of being able to defend yourself as a byproduct of going to the classes. While I agree with you that it is far too late to address this situation through Martial Arts I never suggested it was the solution any way...that said, being pro-active and signing the little fella up could and should do wonders for preventing it ever happening again later down the line..(no, not because bullies will be afraid of him before you go off on another ill thought out rant, but because classes such as Jujitsu and Boxing promote confidence, emotional control and discipline and go a long way to remove the traits bullies look for in a victim). blindswelledrat said: If the average bully discovered that a weakling victim had started to go to martial arts- its like a red-rag to a bull. It would become THE thing to bully him for.
Terrible idea to anyone who has witnessed bully psychology. We're not talking about "average bully" we're talking about 1 bully. Given that the OP is dealing with the bully in question his knowlege of the OP's son attending some form of Martial Arts class is irrelevant because through the actions of the OP and the school staff the bully should be swiftly taught the error of his ways and this particular problem should be cured. Are you saying that the OP and school staff are incompetent parents and guardians and that the bullying will continue? I only ask because that's what inferring that this bullys bullying is set to continue into the future sounds like to me...and who is to say that even if the bully does attempt to pick on the kid in future (after a few classes), when the kid doesn't cower and actually he stands his ground and stares the bully in the eye and the bully (almost certainly) decides to back down as he doesnt like being confronted for being the coward that he is?! You are wrongly assuming that the boy would still be in the position of being a victim for the bully. freecar said: Finally, some sense spoken. See above...you're commenting about something you clearly have little or no knowledge about, (no, watching karate kid 1,2 & 3 doesn't make you an authority on Martial Arts and the values that they teach). freecar, read my reply to BSR, the same applies to you if you are so narrow minded and ill-informed as to somehow think that I meant... "put him in martial arts classes and he'll kick the bullys ass after 1 lesson" ...in my post and then proceeded to quote me on it!
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aclivity
Original Poster
3,541 posts
57 months
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NNK said: At 8 being excluded from a small group or having your shorts pulled down by a kid of the same age isnt going to ruin your life No, but being picked on continually by a small group of bullies, then being the only kid who has both shorts and underpants pulled down (whilst other boys just had their shorts pulled), I can see why it's upsetting.
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SMcP114
1,576 posts
61 months
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NinjaPower said: I would rather think that kicking, stamping, gouging, stabbing, biting, head butting, glassing, bottling and knifing would likely be the winning method of fighting these days? They're 8 years old...
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blindswelledrat
18,974 posts
101 months
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Mark.H said: freecar said: blindswelledrat said: Mark.H said: OP get your little man into some Martial Arts classes they're amazing fun, he'll develop lots of confidence and keep fit and make new friends and develop into an individual who can control his feelings and emotions better than before and last of all he'll be able to look after himself. I always see people say this kind of thing in response to bullying threads, and whilst there is a logical point to it, its far too late. Bully victims are largely weak- mentally and physically. Martial arts take years to get good at. YOu don't enrol and suddenly become really good at fighting from one day to the next. If the average bully discovered that a weakling victim had started to go to martial arts- its like a red-rag to a bull. It would become THE thing to bully him for. Terrible idea to anyone who has witnessed bully psychology Finally, some sense spoken. Martial arts will do nothing but make him even more of a target to these people. "Oh let's kick this kid in he thinks he's hard as he does karate!" Im sorry but that's complete b ks and you both completely are missing my point. blindswelledrat said: Martial arts take years to get good at. YOu don't enrol and suddenly become really good at fighting from one day to the next. Who said the point of going to Martial Arts was to kick the kids ass and resolve this situation, or said that you do become really good over night? I didn't, so why are you quoting me? Infact I think you will find if you stop and read my post again you will see I recommend classes because they're fun and would be great developing the lads own confidence (which is an area the OP stated his son struggled with). I even went so far as to list the actual act of being able to defend yourself as a byproduct of going to the classes. While I agree with you that it is far too late to address this situation through Martial Arts I never suggested it was the solution any way...that said, being pro-active and signing the little fella up could and should do wonders for preventing it ever happening again later down the line..(no, not because bullies will be afraid of him before you go off on another ill thought out rant, but because classes such as Jujitsu and Boxing promote confidence, emotional control and discipline and go a long way to remove the traits bullies look for in a victim). blindswelledrat said: If the average bully discovered that a weakling victim had started to go to martial arts- its like a red-rag to a bull. It would become THE thing to bully him for.
Terrible idea to anyone who has witnessed bully psychology. We're not talking about "average bully" we're talking about 1 bully. Given that the OP is dealing with the bully in question his knowlege of the OP's son attending some form of Martial Arts class is irrelevant because through the actions of the OP and the school staff the bully should be swiftly taught the error of his ways and this particular problem should be cured. Are you saying that the OP and school staff are incompetent parents and guardians and that the bullying will continue? I only ask because that's what inferring that this bullys bullying is set to continue into the future sounds like to me...and who is to say that even if the bully does attempt to pick on the kid in future (after a few classes), when the kid doesn't cower and actually he stands his ground and stares the bully in the eye and the bully (almost certainly) decides to back down as he doesnt like being confronted for being the coward that he is?! You are wrongly assuming that the boy would still be in the position of being a victim for the bully. freecar said: Finally, some sense spoken. See above...you're commenting about something you clearly have little or no knowledge about, (no, watching karate kid 1,2 & 3 doesn't make you an authority on Martial Arts and the values that they teach). freecar, read my reply to BSR, the same applies to you if you are so narrow minded and ill-informed as to somehow think that I meant... "put him in martial arts classes and he'll kick the bullys ass after 1 lesson" ...in my post and then proceeded to quote me on it! I also think that it makes you ludicrously, and irrationally angry. I'd avoid martial arts like the plague
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Gorilla Boy
7,348 posts
42 months
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blindswelledrat said: I also think that it makes you ludicrously, and irrationally angry. I'd avoid martial arts like the plague Id suggest you go along to a judo class as that is utter b ks. Martial arts teaches discipline, gets out angry/stress, teamwork and patience.
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blindswelledrat
18,974 posts
101 months
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Gorilla Boy said: blindswelledrat said: I also think that it makes you ludicrously, and irrationally angry. I'd avoid martial arts like the plague Id suggest you go along to a judo class as that is utter b ks. Martial arts teaches discipline, gets out angry/stress, teamwork and patience. THat was a joke, angry boy. You martial artists seem to get quite agressive over contradictions.
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Gorilla Boy
7,348 posts
42 months
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blindswelledrat said: THat was a joke, angry boy.
You martial artists seem to get quite agressive over contradictions. In that case i apologise  I am not a martial artist anymore and only did a few years as a kid. I am however a very angry person naturally and martial arts/exercise is what i use for "therapy" so to speak 
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Blue62
1,396 posts
21 months
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Good luck OP, you sound like a decent Dad and I hope things settle down for your lad soon. It's an extremely difficult problem for all involved, from my own experience most of the kids who have been subjected to serious bullying have ended up changing school, not ideal but it maybe the best option in the long term. At the outset the choice of 'victim' is often irrational or based on something quite minor, if it gathers pace it usually has longer term consequences and it follows that your son might fare better with a fresh start if things don't change, but you and your wife will be the best judges of that.
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Mark.H
3,214 posts
75 months
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aclivity said: I came on here writing to random strangers as - in many things - it's good to get an unbiased opinion. At the time of writing my OP my wife was also on the phone to a parent support phone line, and I had a chat window open with a website called bullyingUK, asking for a third party opinion too. I was unable to address the issue directly as the school was shut, and by that time, my 8 year old was also asleep.
I woke up this morning with the words and tune of "Coward of the County" by Kenny Rogers playing in my head, as I had been obsessing about the education I had given my children that it was never right to hit people.
Anyway, my wife has spoken the head teacher, he has called all of the implicated boys in for a chat. He has also written to the parents and asked them to come in and see him by the end of the week. I have spoken to him on the phone, and will be speaking to the chair of governors (if I can contact her, as she is out of the country this month so I am technically acting chair) or the LEA to tell them that - temporarily at least, until this is settled - I will be stepping down from my role as vice chair of governors.
With regards to the couple of people telling me not to get involved - I do understand the sentiment, but as it turns out we have only heard about it when it has got too much for him to bear on his own. He has tried to be strong, to turn the other cheek, and to ignore it for too long. He's only 8, I don't believe a little boy should be put in the position of having to try to be strong or hide the fact that he is upset. Nor should anyone, to be honest, but at 8 years old he doesn't have the same mental coping strategies that an adult might have. Well done! Sounds like the little man has a good Dad in his corner... You sound open to suggestions, I honestly can't recommend you take an hour out of your day (when you have a moment) and take a trip to a local class for kids for Jujitsu or Boxing or similar and see what it is all about, have a word with the instructor and ask them how they think attending classes will help your son (in general, and in this situation). Confidence & courage isn't breaking a bullys nose, it means making the right decision and going to those who can help resolve the problem. I've attended boxing, jujitsu, kick boxing and muay thai classes, I went to jujitsu and later boxing when I was younger and I honestly can't get it across to you how much it helped me focus when I was struggling at school with my grades and how the confidence it gave me helped in job interviews later on. I honestly believe the right class can give a kid a real head start in life. (no I'm not "hard", I don't have big muscles, I've never broken bricks or wood with my head and I don't have a goatee or an MX-5)
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Chrisw666
20,881 posts
68 months
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aclivity said: NNK said: At 8 being excluded from a small group or having your shorts pulled down by a kid of the same age isnt going to ruin your life No, but being picked on continually by a small group of bullies, then being the only kid who has both shorts and underpants pulled down (whilst other boys just had their shorts pulled), I can see why it's upsetting. I actually see being excluded from a group you would like to be part of and being humiliated as the kind of thing that slowly builds up. Other kids ridicule him for the short incident, then choose to exclude him, after a while he gives up trying to join in and becomes reclusive and unwilling to take part in anything. The things that children need more than the ability to physically fight back is the emotional intelligence to understand why the bully does what they do, to isolate that person/group of people from everyone else in the world, and to build a strong sense of self confidence which can act as a very tough shell. I know it has been mentioned that your son isn't a sporty physical type of kid, but if he is bright there must be things he can be good at that will give him a huge boost in confidence and make him aware that he is good at things that are much better than kicking a bag of wind around or being the fastest runner.
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Mark.H
3,214 posts
75 months
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blindswelledrat said: I also think that it makes you ludicrously, and irrationally angry. I'd avoid martial arts like the plague I'm not angry at all, but I find it irritating when I try to give constructive advice to help the OP and someone comes along and spouts a load of crap and uses me as "Exibit A".
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Mrs OwenK
543 posts
30 months
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On the whole 'martial arts builds confidence' side of things wouldn't it only do that if there was talent there to start with? I know to my 8yr old self I would have just thought it would be another chance for me to suck at something!
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blindswelledrat
18,974 posts
101 months
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Mark.H said: spouts a load of crap and uses me as "Exibit A". I see. FOrgive my confusion. Its just you marched on to the thread spouting "why are you talking to the internet when you could be dealing with it" . You sounded like "one of those types". THen when you started prattling on about martial arts I added two and two together and made 5. It hadn't occured to me that you were merely making suggestions as to how the child could become a better child in teh long term, due to its irrelevance.
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Rude-boy
15,547 posts
102 months
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aclivity said: My biggest fear is over reacting. Just as he is only 8 years old, so are his bullies. Can an 8 year old understand the hurt they cause when they may think it is just high jinks? High Jinks is a once in a blue moon or all doing it to each other sort of thing. Can they understand the hurt? Yes the bloody well can! They can see the distress it causes and pray upon that as it makes them feel better about their pathetic little lives. I would talk to the school and I would back up the conversations with an e-mail summary of who is going to do what etc should this not be taken as seriously as it should. Although calling the police is a few levels above where this is at the minute. You really don't want to hear this but I suspect from what you post that if you are not careful this will be his lot at school. For me it was about this sort of age that it started and also over the same sort of thing, not being any good at football which then fed onto so much else. I really would get him into some form of self defence classes or similar as he will need to know how to look after himself. I didn't have that but then I had size on my side, even if that was part of the problem!!! In my case, whilst I consider myself relatively unscathed and that a lot of it helped shape the person I am today, it never really ended, it just ebbed and flowed throughout my school life. The ebbs were never after I had told a teacher or someone had had a discussion with the school though, they were almost always after I'd just sent someone to the school nurse or casualty. If you can stamp on this now then it is likely to save a lot of heart ache for all in the long run.
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Mark.H
3,214 posts
75 months
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Mrs OwenK said: On the whole 'martial arts builds confidence' side of things wouldn't it only do that if there was talent there to start with? I know to my 8yr old self I would have just thought it would be another chance for me to suck at something! at 8 the only thing the OP should be concerned with should be wether his son enjoys it, if he doesn't then maybe its not for him. If he does, then the rest should follow naturally given the right encouragement and instruction.
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StottyZr
4,102 posts
32 months
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hollydog said: Get him involved in some kind of martial arts or boxing or something to build his confidence. Bullies seem pick on shy kids and kids that are not confident .I not saying its ok to fight but he would be feel better if he could look after his self. Wish my parents would have done this with me. Bulling has effected my hole life. So do as much as you can to sort it asap.Good luck . For the love of god this. My mum always stopped me doing any form of weight training of fight training as a kid. I have no idea why. She hates violence, but I wish she hadn't been such a bigot and had let my dad take me. I can see no negatives from it, obviously as long as the kid knows to not through his weight around. Being a bit handy is always going to be helpful.
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Mark.H
3,214 posts
75 months
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blindswelledrat said: I see. FOrgive my confusion. Not atall, I think its great they have internet access at the sunshine club or whatever it's called nowadays...were the windows on the bus tasty today?
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freecar
4,194 posts
56 months
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I replied once but the pc didn't play. Martial arts wont give him confidence all the while he's still being bullied, which he will be for a while, these things don't stop over night. I know as my friend was a martial arts instructor for years and hated parents bringing him kids to "fix" Much better would be to nip the bullying in the bud and then the kid can go about gaining self confidence from martial arts at a time when he doesn't think his dad's sent him there to "toughen him up" But judging from your comments toward BSR you're a t t and your advice shouldn't be followed. He apologised to you and you essentially called him a retard, a great ad for discipline from martial arts when you can't even carry on a civil conversation online.
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road_rager
856 posts
68 months
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We have ongoing issues with our 6 year old daughter being bullied by the 'special needs' boy in her class & to be honest the school are not that much help as the boy can hide behind his 'issues'.
I've said to my daughter that if she likes she can hit him & I wont tell her off, we regularly make fun of him at home so that she knows she is not alone with trying to reason with his actions, I think kids when being bullied build the bullies up to being unbeatable, and once you have broken that idea then it becomes less of a worry to them.
OP you should talk to your son as much as pos and try and build up his mental strength, don't let him simmer on his own. By all means complain to the school but don't expect miracles!
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Soovy
32,020 posts
140 months
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aclivity said: I am not sure if she should go in there with a complaint about an assault, or just to talk about some high jinks? Mate In all seriosuness, go in there TODAY and see the Head. TODAY. Your son has been sexually assaulted at school - this is serious. They will abolsutely have to do something. Tell them you want it sorting out or you will inform the police and local authority. That should do the trick. As Rudeboy says, stamp on this NOW. With maximum force. DO NOT STAND FOR BULLYING. NOT EVER.
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