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Dusty964
5,459 posts
59 months
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Disastrous said: Butter Face said: hora said: Disastrous said: Amazed people are defending a bitter, old xenopobe. Are you saying how he should behave/believe and act? Sounds almost fascist doesn't it?  You may not like what he says, but he fought for his right (and yours) to say what he likes. Rubbish. In a society where people are prosecuted for racist Tweets etc, how can the fact that you served in a War allow you to be above the rules? What if he'd said "the only good n****r is a dead n****r" because a black man had killed his fiancée? Would that be ok 'cos e's a salt of the earth war hero, innit'? This place is astonishing sometimes. A bit of braid on your uniform and you can do no wrong on PH... The problem may be that society chooses to 'follow' tweets and is then outraged by something that they didn't wish to hear
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drivin_me_nuts
13,784 posts
80 months
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You do what you need to survive in a war. Afterwards for many it can be hellish living with the consequences and for others, well they don't lose a moments sleep over it. I do think that it takes a certain kind of mindset to want to hold on to hatred for half a lifetime. Perhaps it's some kind of personal motivator or driver for success, but many who do live do forgive, or if not forgive, at least find the space within themselves to move on with their lives.
Personally, I see hatred as an inefficient use of your mental resources. To actively choose to not let go when you know have a choice, shows a darker side to a persons nature. To hold on to anger through a sense of 'justice' or revenge or never forgetting... well how long are you going to carry on like that. To me, there's something rather sad about reading about such an otherwise vibrabt individual feeling the way he does. Like I said, inefficient.
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Isaac Hunt
6,776 posts
80 months
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I'm in my 50's and grew up in the 1960's while the war was very fresh in everyone's mind.
During the early 70's, there was a bit of a campaign in the schools to improve Anglo/German relationships and our school was twinned with a German one for the purpose of exchange visits.
Our family are still in contact with our adopted German family and visit every five years or so.
Personally I really rather like the Germans and prefer them to the French. My Dad, who fought in WW2 was also of the same mind.
If anything, I was more aware of an anti-Japanese feeling while I was young, rather than German, in fact my Uncle had a blue fit when I bought a Japanese car and never spoke to me again.
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Dusty964
5,459 posts
59 months
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Did anyone watch the documentary about the old boy who went to japan and met the equally old boy who was in charge of his prison camp? There was a great deal of speculation about how he would feel- he too was unsure about how 50 years of pent up feelings of hatred for the guy who ordered executions and torture to be carried out on his friends would surface.
They met. They shook hands. They wept openly and they hugged. God knows what the memories must have been like, but to react in such a way was moving to watch.
As much as people can let go, there are others that just can't. It's simply not for us-living in an infinitely more diverse culture- to judge them. No counseling, no time off work, no stress management courses, no go home on full pay until you feel better. Just- get on with the job. Why are 'the few' so highly regarded? A group of young blokes risking everything, several times a day, for the freedom and survival of the things held dear to them. The men that landed on D-day, the cockleshell heroes, the men on the raid to st. Nazaire....the list is endless. Its simply not for us to judge what they say/think/do- they have seen plenty already.
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Butter Face
5,722 posts
29 months
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Dusty964 said: Did anyone watch the documentary about the old boy who went to japan and met the equally old boy who was in charge of his prison camp? There was a great deal of speculation about how he would feel- he too was unsure about how 50 years of pent up feelings of hatred for the guy who ordered executions and torture to be carried out on his friends would surface.
They met. They shook hands. They wept openly and they hugged. God knows what the memories must have been like, but to react in such a way was moving to watch.
As much as people can let go, there are others that just can't. It's simply not for us-living in an infinitely more diverse culture- to judge them. No counseling, no time off work, no stress management courses, no go home on full pay until you feel better. Just- get on with the job. Why are 'the few' so highly regarded? A group of young blokes risking everything, several times a day, for the freedom and survival of the things held dear to them. The men that landed on D-day, the cockleshell heroes, the men on the raid to st. Nazaire....the list is endless. Its simply not for us to judge what they say/think/do- they have seen plenty already. Well said.
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Tunku
6,336 posts
97 months
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RizzoTheRat said: Gott in Himmel, what's going on with his trousers?  I imagine Simon Cowell will look like that at 89...
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sleep envy
59,337 posts
118 months
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Guvernator said: DrTre said: Apart from having developed an annoying habit such that any time I see a friend poring over a map I will point to various places and say in Posh General Voice "Jerry are here.. here and.. here and we need to advance to ...here" then no, I ain't got no beef. Then again, I'm considerably younger than yow. How spooky, Me and a friend at work do the exactly same thing except I add in the words "Hun" and "pincer movement".  Are half the countries on your maps coloured in pink?
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NightRunner
4,259 posts
63 months
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Disastrous said: Rubbish. In a society where people are prosecuted for racist Tweets etc, how can the fact that you served in a War allow you to be above the rules?
What if he'd said "the only good n****r is a dead n****r" because a black man had killed his fiancée? Would that be ok 'cos e's a salt of the earth war hero, innit'?
This place is astonishing sometimes. A bit of braid on your uniform and you can do no wrong on PH... You're a moron. Can you not see how mis-matched your point it?
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Driller
5,238 posts
147 months
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vixen1700 said: Just thought I'd ask after hearing about Sir Patrick Moore's moronic comments like 'The only good Kraut is a dead Kraut' What a tosser. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137652/Pa...Can't say I've ever really heard people saying they have a dislike for Germany/Germans, but after hearing people calling in on the Jeremy Vine show, it appears there are people of my generation (born in the '60s) who still hold this ridculous notion of untrust towards Germans. Island mentality and pure xenophobia which the English have a particular talent for. Drives me insane, especially the reflexive, indoctrinated "hate" for the French. "Oh I hate the f  king French" "Really, ever been there?" "No, why?" 
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Ayahuasca
16,065 posts
148 months
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Driller said: Island mentality and pure xenophobia which the English have a particular talent for. Drives me insane, especially the reflexive, indoctrinated "hate" for the French. "Oh I hate the f  king French" "Really, ever been there?" "No, why?"  The irony is strong in this one.
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New POD
2,007 posts
19 months
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I went to Berlin last week for work. Food and humour seems to have improved in the last 10 years.
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kiteless
6,284 posts
73 months
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Dusty964 said: Old people - saw things we never had to, and never will because of them. Sorry to cherry-pick your post, Dusty, but ^ that for me is very much on the money  Personally, if there still is anti-German sentiments within this country from those not affected by WW2, then some reading into events between - say - 1926 and 1938 would pull back the blinkers a little, and understand that most of Germany as a nation were hoodwinked by Hitler, and by 1940 were collectively thinking, "WTF is going on?". As one historian puts it, 'If the Great Depression had never happened, then Hitler would have remained an odd character on the fringe of politics.'
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Driller
5,238 posts
147 months
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Ayahuasca said: Driller said: Island mentality and pure xenophobia which the English have a particular talent for. Drives me insane, especially the reflexive, indoctrinated "hate" for the French. "Oh I hate the f  king French" "Really, ever been there?" "No, why?"  The irony is strong in this one. Care to explain your tired, unfunny cliché of a phrase?
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robsa
904 posts
53 months
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I think he was saying that in once sentence you are making a negative generalisation about the English because they make a negative generalisation about the French. The only anti -german feeling I have seen in a long time is when they knock us out the world cup and all the BMW/Mercedes owners start sweating! 
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ShayneJ
935 posts
48 months
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My god there is a huge amount crap in this thread!
The WW's were a very different time and even for the few on PH that have had real combat experience wont fully appreciate what the ~TOTAL WAR~ life is like.
The whole country was fed propaganda and news and stoked to hate not just Germany but all the axis powers and the actions of the SS the Gestapo and the Japanese imperial army. combined with the almost nightly bombing raids and the constantly growing lists of dead and missing both on the lines and on our own streets combined with personal loss can and does ingrain a hatred that will only fade when those that were there are all passed on.
You may not like his views but he is entitled to them and he fought PERSONALY for the right to hold them and i salute him for that.
You may not agree with him but because of him and his generation you are allowed to SAY you don't agree. most folk today don't truly appreciate that.
Prey you never have to experience first hand the life he and his generation endured.
I don't hold any ill will to the Germans of today but WE live in a different time.
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Uncle Fester
3,114 posts
77 months
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When I was growing up the war was fresh in everyone’s minds. I knew many who had suffered greatly and never forgave. I heard their stories and cannot condemn them for feeling that way.
I don’t hate the Germans. But I am strongly influenced by one person in particular.
Despite her suffering, the wisest words came from one who had suffered the most. She was the mother of a boyhood friend and a Dutch Jewess. Her husband had been a British Army dentist assigned to help the inmates of a liberated death camp. A German guard had struck her in the mouth with the butt of his rifle, smashing her teeth and driving the fragments deep into her gums. She was barely alive when the camp was liberated. Her entire family had been murdered.
Her husband had tried to rebuild her mouth in the camp. There can be few less likely places for love to blossom than a dentist’s chair in a death camp, yet his heart went out to her. He saw beyond the emaciated and smashed figure before him. He saw the beauty that had once been, both in looks and personality and resolved to rebuild it. He bought her home and their love lasted a lifetime. Twenty years later bits of her teeth were coming to the surface of her gums and her husband was still removing them.
Her hatred was not for the Germans. It was not even directly for the Nazi’s. To her the greatest evil and target of her hatred was politicians who attempt to control what people think.
Nazi’s had a theory of the ‘oft-repeated lie’. If you said something often enough, if you prevented reasoned criticism of the lie, eventually people would accept it as truth. When enough people accepted the lie it would come to be so believed that to contradict it in society would make you an outsider to be denounced.
To her a democratic government should represent the beliefs of the people. The moment a government feels justified attempting to manipulate the beliefs of the people then it is no better than the Nazi’s.
She lived long enough to despise the current Political Correctness as the new form of Nazism.
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RedWhiteMonkey
3,157 posts
51 months
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I certainly don’t have any anti-German feeling, I’m an Englishman who is due to marry a Ger(wo)man in August and looking to move to Baden-Württemberg next year. Most Germans I have met have been very friendly, tolerant and welcoming people. As with anywhere there are a few ignorant people but show me any country without any?
To hold a grudge against a nation for something that happened nearer over 70 years ago is simply odd to me. One of my grandfathers served in Italy, Germany and Burma during WWII, picking up some souvenir shrapnel in Italy that he kept for the rest of his life on the way. Although he, like many, did not like to talk about his war experiences I know that he saw the horrors of war. Despite that he and my Nana subsequently went on holiday to Germany and Italy in the 1980’s without giving it a second thought, I suspect they would have gone to Burma if they could have afforded, and the subsequent military junta allowed, it. He did tell my Dad that Italy was nicer with no one shooting at him though!
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Disastrous
3,607 posts
86 months
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NightRunner said: You're a moron.
Can you not see how mis-matched your point it? No, you're a moron (see, it's easy!) and no, they aren't.
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vonuber
3,905 posts
34 months
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This is what annoys me: 
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Ayahuasca
16,065 posts
148 months
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Driller said: Ayahuasca said: Driller said: Island mentality and pure xenophobia which the English have a particular talent for. Drives me insane, especially the reflexive, indoctrinated "hate" for the French. "Oh I hate the f  king French" "Really, ever been there?" "No, why?"  The irony is strong in this one. Care to explain your tired, unfunny cliché of a phrase? I should have thought it was self-evident, but no problem. You bemoan "reflexive, indoctrinated hate" yet accuse the English (all of them, every last one!) of having a particular talent for "island mentality and pure xenophobia". See it now?
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