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Pints
14,759 posts
64 months
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TheHeretic said: Pints said: There was a time when school offered more than just a grasp of maths and grammar. Post-curricular activities were all part of the education process and played a part in the education system. That meant following the rules at all times or facing the consequences.
To suggest teaching respect and discipline should be the reserve of parents is narrow minded. Schooling should offer so much more than an ability to read and write. have you seen the extracurricular activities put on by schools, and colleges nowadays? I was VP of the student association when I was in college in the states, and there is stuff for every aspect of extra-curricular activity. That was, tongue in cheek, my point. Extracurricular activities exist and form an important part of the education process. These activities often teach respect and disciplines which you'd be hard pressed to teach effectively at home. "What I hear, I soon forget. What I see, I may remember. What I do, I know." To suggest that school should not also instill respect and discipline is, well... read my posts above.
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TwigtheWonderkid
6,315 posts
20 months
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This whole topic is based on a false premis, that being that kids today are somehow worse than the kids of previous generations. But they're not.
It's always the way that the adults of today think the kids of today are no good, just like our parents moaned about us. And Plato and Socratese moaned about kids 3000 yrs ago.
I can only speak for my kids and their friends, who are all brighter, better behaved, and all round better human beings than I was at that age 30 yrs ago. And my experience as a governor of a London comprehensive enforces that.
The dropping of beatings and canings at school and in many cases at home has coincided with an improvement in educational attainment. That's a fact. And before someone starts bleating on about dumbing down, my eldest is doing GCSEs at the moment (13 of them) and looking thru the books and the trial exam papers, they're no easier than the O levels I ballsed up!
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DrTre
12,428 posts
102 months
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It's a different debate but the dumbing down of qualifications is IMO all but established fact.
Put it down to hearsay but it's backed up by my own experience, and people who I know: my peers, teachers (both past and present), PGCE lecturers/curriculum advisers, an Ofsted inspector, uni lecturers, uni admissions lecturers and employers.
ETA call it bleating by all means but I know these people are much less inclined (in fact, they should really be basking in the glory but they're not because they know it's untrue) to have a vested interest than the areas that are suggesting it's improving educational standards and children's attention that is causing the ever increasing rise in grades. I'll go with professional opinion, gleaned over up to 40 years in the area, if it's all the same to you.
FETA, just to point out, while these are people whose opinions I value and trust and they have long experience I know they don't speak for the entire educational establishment and it is just hearsay. However, given they all say the same fundamental message, from across different areas of the country, in a variety of roles then realistically it leads to the conclusion of where there's smoke...
FETA a bit more: I'm absolutely including myself in this dumbing down. Using 60s, 70s and early 80s past papers for my A level practise there was a demonstrable difference in the level of understanding needed compared to what I sat.
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swerni
20,097 posts
80 months
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TwigtheWonderkid said: This whole topic is based on a false premis, that being that kids today are somehow worse than the kids of previous generations. But they're not.
It's always the way that the adults of today think the kids of today are no good, just like our parents moaned about us. And Plato and Socratese moaned about kids 3000 yrs ago.
I can only speak for my kids and their friends, who are all brighter, better behaved, and all round better human beings than I was at that age 30 yrs ago. And my experience as a governor of a London comprehensive enforces that.
The dropping of beatings and canings at school and in many cases at home has coincided with an improvement in educational attainment. That's a fact. And before someone starts bleating on about dumbing down, my eldest is doing GCSEs at the moment (13 of them) and looking thru the books and the trial exam papers, they're no easier than the O levels I ballsed up! I would disagree with you and say you were the exception rather than the norm. How many parents care enough to get involved with the schools? You clearly do therefore your are going to be one of those parents who "work with and support the teachers". You're going to instil a level of respect for the teachers that most don't ( and that, I feel is a huge change from how it used to be). Chances are that you are friends with other people with the similar attitude and your children's friends will come from families with similar attitudes. (my wife is a teaching assistant in my daughters school and on the parents guiding committee of my sons school)
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TheHeretic
69,409 posts
125 months
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Pints said: That was, tongue in cheek, my point.
Extracurricular activities exist and form an important part of the education process.
These activities often teach respect and disciplines which you'd be hard pressed to teach effectively at home.
"What I hear, I soon forget. What I see, I may remember. What I do, I know."
To suggest that school should not also instill respect and discipline is, well... read my posts above. OS that what I suggested? I don't think so. What I am sayingnis that respect isn't garnered from the end of a cane, fear is. Respect is an entirely different thing. Kids were just as naughty back then, but the responsibility is on the parents. Teachers should be free to punish kids, but I think it doesn't need to be violence. If parents want to, then fine, but again, I'm not sure it installs respect, or simply fear. Regardless, I'm still unconvinced that kids in the 60's, 70's, and so on and any better behaved than now. Bad kids will be shots, and good kids will be decent.
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tenohfive
3,690 posts
52 months
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GAjon said: From my observations, corporal punishment didn't stop bad kids from being bad, it stopped the good kids from being bad. Interesting observation, and one that I think is pretty close to the mark.
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lazygraduand
1,518 posts
31 months
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