Application to start Primary school - Appeals
Discussion
Having a very distressing issue here which the OH is very VERY stressed about so hopefully someone could offer come advice...
Basically my youngest kid is up for her first year of primary school starting September this year. My missus made the application early this year online. We never had any correspondence from then until 3 weeks ago. Basically it says that our kid was rejected. We were quite shocked as the school is literally behind our back garden!
Anyway the following few weeks we decided to appeal and have a date set for next week. We were posted a copy of all the documentation they have received. Going through them it is obvious that some kind of clerical mistake has occurred. Her siblings were not shown in the online application (my missus definitely filled them in!) and also on some of the correspondence the address shows our old address which we lived 2 years ago. The biggest thing that stands out to us is that it shows on the documents :
"Nearest distance to alternative school of accepted students : 0.49 miles. Our distance to alternative school : 5.2 miles."
So this show that someone who was accepted lives closer to an alternative school than we did! I scoured the documents and find no reason why my kid shouldn't be accepted... The worrying thing is that in the documents it was also stated that there were no further funding/resource to accommodate any more students.
So why have the appeal in the first place? Is this just some kind of exercise to tick a box?
We (especially the missus) are really getting very stressed over this as our youngest is very excited and looking forward to start school joining her sisters... It would be highly inconvenient if she was located to the alternative school as there will be no way my missus can pick all up in time.
I know the appeal next week might help but what if it doesn't is there anything else we can do if that doesn't go in our favour?
Basically my youngest kid is up for her first year of primary school starting September this year. My missus made the application early this year online. We never had any correspondence from then until 3 weeks ago. Basically it says that our kid was rejected. We were quite shocked as the school is literally behind our back garden!
Anyway the following few weeks we decided to appeal and have a date set for next week. We were posted a copy of all the documentation they have received. Going through them it is obvious that some kind of clerical mistake has occurred. Her siblings were not shown in the online application (my missus definitely filled them in!) and also on some of the correspondence the address shows our old address which we lived 2 years ago. The biggest thing that stands out to us is that it shows on the documents :
"Nearest distance to alternative school of accepted students : 0.49 miles. Our distance to alternative school : 5.2 miles."
So this show that someone who was accepted lives closer to an alternative school than we did! I scoured the documents and find no reason why my kid shouldn't be accepted... The worrying thing is that in the documents it was also stated that there were no further funding/resource to accommodate any more students.
So why have the appeal in the first place? Is this just some kind of exercise to tick a box?
We (especially the missus) are really getting very stressed over this as our youngest is very excited and looking forward to start school joining her sisters... It would be highly inconvenient if she was located to the alternative school as there will be no way my missus can pick all up in time.
I know the appeal next week might help but what if it doesn't is there anything else we can do if that doesn't go in our favour?
Make yourself a nuisance to the Local Authority if they refuse, keep appealing and use local media.
Presumably it's a state school that hasn't converted to Academy status... usually an application is refused simply because the maximum class size has been reached - normally 30 pupils.
There is no longer an automatic right to a place in a school based on siblings already having a place there...
However remain calm and collected at the appeal and highlight the impracticalities of having to drop off and pick up the kids at two schools which have the same start and end times.
Schools normally welcome extra pupils as each pupil brings additional funds so helps with the budgets, so it's the local education authority who are playing jobsworth...
Presumably it's a state school that hasn't converted to Academy status... usually an application is refused simply because the maximum class size has been reached - normally 30 pupils.
There is no longer an automatic right to a place in a school based on siblings already having a place there...
However remain calm and collected at the appeal and highlight the impracticalities of having to drop off and pick up the kids at two schools which have the same start and end times.
Schools normally welcome extra pupils as each pupil brings additional funds so helps with the budgets, so it's the local education authority who are playing jobsworth...
Get ready to lobby your local ward councillor. That's what he/she is elected for - to represent his/her constituents.
Most MPs hold surgeries where constituents can take their concerns. Find out when/where yours does.
If you need to fight it helps to have some guns.
Most MPs hold surgeries where constituents can take their concerns. Find out when/where yours does.
If you need to fight it helps to have some guns.
Edited by Red Devil on Wednesday 27th June 20:28
Almost the same, my son wasn't offered a place at his local secondary school ... Over subscribed. We appealled all 3 schools (you get to express a preference for 3). Rejected on 2 got the other one. Just appeal on the facts & it sounds like you'll be fine to me. Lay it on thick though 
TX.
TX.
Politicians and the press will be of no use at all. The appeals process uses an Independent Appeals Panel specifically to be immune to political pressure. Most politicians will be ignored and local ones, if they are in any way responsible for education and/or admissions rules or funding, might well be liable to disciplinary action for conflict of interest.
Get the school admissions criteria and read them carefully. Sometimes there is a sibling link and sometimes there isn't. Sibling link (if it exists in this school )always needs the elder child to be at the same school at the start of the relevant term. Sometimes places are awarded on the basis of closest to the nearest alternative and sometimes on the basis of furthest to travel to the nearest alternative.
When you applied on line did you keep a a screen print? If not, and the sisters are not mentioned on the council copy (which they will bring to the appeal) you will have real trouble getting the sibling link accepted. There is sometimes a space on the form to mention anything that is important to you. If you put anything in there that referred to the sisters you have a chance as it is "information which the admissions were aware of" and you could make a case that they should have contacted you to ask why the siblings were not listed in the relevant space.
The very best help you can get is from ACE
http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/
I will try to answer any specific questions you have but this is my busy time of year. Hearing admissions appeals!!
Get the school admissions criteria and read them carefully. Sometimes there is a sibling link and sometimes there isn't. Sibling link (if it exists in this school )always needs the elder child to be at the same school at the start of the relevant term. Sometimes places are awarded on the basis of closest to the nearest alternative and sometimes on the basis of furthest to travel to the nearest alternative.
When you applied on line did you keep a a screen print? If not, and the sisters are not mentioned on the council copy (which they will bring to the appeal) you will have real trouble getting the sibling link accepted. There is sometimes a space on the form to mention anything that is important to you. If you put anything in there that referred to the sisters you have a chance as it is "information which the admissions were aware of" and you could make a case that they should have contacted you to ask why the siblings were not listed in the relevant space.
The very best help you can get is from ACE
http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/
I will try to answer any specific questions you have but this is my busy time of year. Hearing admissions appeals!!
Facts are key. These links may help - http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/adminandfinanc...
http://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/help-and-advice/...
If the school has been writing to an incorrect out-of-date address it suggests an administrative issue which may have unfairly disdavantaged you. OP - did you print out a copy of the online application? This would prove whether the correct information was submitted.
http://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/help-and-advice/...
If the school has been writing to an incorrect out-of-date address it suggests an administrative issue which may have unfairly disdavantaged you. OP - did you print out a copy of the online application? This would prove whether the correct information was submitted.
Seesure said:
There is no longer an automatic right to a place in a school based on siblings already having a place there...
There is no law on this that I am aware of. each school has the power to set its own admission criteria, unless they have agreed to allow the council admissions people to do it for them. Some criteria allow sibling link and some don't.Seesure said:
highlight the impracticalities of having to drop off and pick up the kids at two schools which have the same start and end times.
If a place would have been awarded if the form was correctly filled in and submitted on time, highly likely to be rejected by the panel as personal convenience only which was caused by the appellant failing to fill in the form. Still worth a try though.Seesure said:
Schools normally welcome extra pupils as each pupil brings additional funds so helps with the budgets, so it's the local education authority who are playing jobsworth...
I don't see that following The Education (Infant Class Sizes) (England) Regulations 1998 makes anybody a jobsworth. Edited by jwill on Wednesday 27th June 21:04
Edited by jwill on Wednesday 27th June 21:05
Bone up on facts and understand the grounds for appeal.
http://www.mumsnet.com/education/secondary/admissi...
An error in the way the application was handled might be the way forward.
http://www.mumsnet.com/education/secondary/admissi...
An error in the way the application was handled might be the way forward.
Red Devil said:
If the school has been writing to an incorrect out-of-date address it suggests an administrative issue which may have unfairly disdavantaged you. OP - did you print out a copy of the online application?
Apparently only some of the correspondence had the old address. The issue of disadvantage only applies if the admissions authority should have awarded a place ON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED and did not do so. There is no disadvantage I can think of in the council sending the placement letter to the wrong address. If the criteria include distance measurement, and most do, it would be very relevant if they measured form the old address. The appellant should specifically ask about this at the hearing if they have not done so aready.Red Devil said:
Bone up on facts and understand the grounds for appeal.
http://www.mumsnet.com/education/secondary/admissi...
An error in the way the application was handled might be the way forward.
Bera in mind that as this is an appeal for first year in a primary school it will be held under the Infant Class Size Prejudice Rules not the secondary appeal that the mumsnet article refers to. http://www.mumsnet.com/education/secondary/admissi...
An error in the way the application was handled might be the way forward.
Go to ACE , they are independent and competent and free.
We had this problem a while ago. We got none of the 3 choices and was given the roughest school available as no one chose it..
We then found out that we could apply to 2 other schools (10 and 12 miles away mind) that had excellent reports which were on the wifes route to work.
As it turns out the one we got into is better than the one we initially chose - we were simply unaware that we could go outside our boundary even though its a 20 min drive each way.
I heard dozens of stories about not getting the school of choice, unfortunately appeals are more often a waste of time as many intakes only have a limited number due to teacher/ class size rules.
One, like yours, was a womans who's driveway was next to the school gate. For some reason they didnt give her kid a place and she had to take him a couple of miles away.
Id suggest speaking to the people where the allocations are sent from to see if there are any schools nearby with spaces that may be suitable.
We then found out that we could apply to 2 other schools (10 and 12 miles away mind) that had excellent reports which were on the wifes route to work.
As it turns out the one we got into is better than the one we initially chose - we were simply unaware that we could go outside our boundary even though its a 20 min drive each way.
I heard dozens of stories about not getting the school of choice, unfortunately appeals are more often a waste of time as many intakes only have a limited number due to teacher/ class size rules.
One, like yours, was a womans who's driveway was next to the school gate. For some reason they didnt give her kid a place and she had to take him a couple of miles away.
Id suggest speaking to the people where the allocations are sent from to see if there are any schools nearby with spaces that may be suitable.
I appealed successfully some years ago. Primary school not secondary. So check what I am saying! But my understanding is there are two basis for appeal. Firstly you can appeal on the basis that the school/authorities published admissions process was not followed or they made errors in processing the application. This is the strongest case and is given highest priority against other types of appeal. Secondly you can appeal if you simply wish for a school to reconsider. This is much less certain to work. But if class sizes allow and extra place to two people are sometimes lucky.
In your case it seems like a clear case of their failure to properly administer their admissions policy. I think you have a strong basis for appeal provided you can adequately demonstrate this with documents proving they should have known your address and other circumstances, like sibling status. May be tricky if the application was online I suppose. I wonder if they still have any logs recorded by the software that processes the online applications?
In your case it seems like a clear case of their failure to properly administer their admissions policy. I think you have a strong basis for appeal provided you can adequately demonstrate this with documents proving they should have known your address and other circumstances, like sibling status. May be tricky if the application was online I suppose. I wonder if they still have any logs recorded by the software that processes the online applications?
Maybe worth a phone call to the education authorities data registrar. They have a duty under the data protection act to maintain accurate data. Ask them how to submit a data subject access request for your data held in relation to the admissions IT system. Actually your wife should do this if data is in her name.
This will do two things. Firstly it may provide you evidence of maladministration, for example if the data is inconsistent. Secondly it may prompt an internal email from IT to admissions office that sends the message: these guys know what they are doing!
Make sure you can get info in time though. Subject requests usually take longer. Worth sweet talking the data registrar to see if they will expedite.
You appeal may rest on the panels belief that the admissions process was not followed. The authority will probably state that they acted correctly on the information supplied. Anything that throws doubt on their competence will be your ammunition. Good luck.
This will do two things. Firstly it may provide you evidence of maladministration, for example if the data is inconsistent. Secondly it may prompt an internal email from IT to admissions office that sends the message: these guys know what they are doing!
Make sure you can get info in time though. Subject requests usually take longer. Worth sweet talking the data registrar to see if they will expedite.
You appeal may rest on the panels belief that the admissions process was not followed. The authority will probably state that they acted correctly on the information supplied. Anything that throws doubt on their competence will be your ammunition. Good luck.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. My daughter's first choice was rejected due to the infant class size limit of 30. This is a statutory limit and possible grounds for appeal, as I recall, were that the local authority hadn't followed its admissions policy properly OR that their decision was 'perverse'. I figured that the 'perverse' argument would almost certainly fail, but that there was at least a chance that they had made an admin cock up so I went ahead with the appeal. A week or two before the appeal hearing, I received a copy of the detailed evidence that the local authority intended to put to the appeal panel. I pored over this and luckily found something that they had done wrong. I submitted this as grounds for appeal and was successful, even though I was unable to attend in person.
So proving that they have made an 'error' ie that they have failed to take proper account of relevant information that you provided to them, or otherwise failed to follow their own admission policy is the only way to go in my opinion. It won't hurt to mention the inconvenience etc, but that won't win it for you.
Best of luck OP
So proving that they have made an 'error' ie that they have failed to take proper account of relevant information that you provided to them, or otherwise failed to follow their own admission policy is the only way to go in my opinion. It won't hurt to mention the inconvenience etc, but that won't win it for you.
Best of luck OP
Had similar problem and had to send boy to a private school for 1 term as we waited for a place to become available. Don't panic appeal and say they have made a clerical error. The siblings are a very important factor. it will come right, it's just the incompetence of the 'crats that run (ruin) our lives.
Cheers
Cheers
If you have siblings and live that close it certainly looks like an error on the application. There is no way other kids should have taken priority in that case.
If it is an error, this can be dealt with during the appeals process. If the school is fully subscribed, there is often a way for the school to breach their PAN (the published number of admissions) providing they can accommodate the class sizes.
The PAN has no resemblance to the class size as it is based on square footage of school, so it may well be that have the ability to accommodate in class with no issues, but they applications were rejected due to reaching the PAN limit.
Best of luck, but I would be very surprised if the appeal doesn't run in your favour.
If it is an error, this can be dealt with during the appeals process. If the school is fully subscribed, there is often a way for the school to breach their PAN (the published number of admissions) providing they can accommodate the class sizes.
The PAN has no resemblance to the class size as it is based on square footage of school, so it may well be that have the ability to accommodate in class with no issues, but they applications were rejected due to reaching the PAN limit.
Best of luck, but I would be very surprised if the appeal doesn't run in your favour.
Hi all,
Sorry for the late reply - it's been a very stressful period for us. We've been more vocal with the school authorities and have got in active contact with the council. Today we've received good news! We don't have to go to the appeal tomorrow and my daughter is offered a place in the school! We should be receiving our official letter in a few days.
We can hardly believe it but glad that this has came to a good ending. It seems that there has been some kind of admin error in the application process (most probably linked to the online application database).
Thanks for all the helpful replies
Sorry for the late reply - it's been a very stressful period for us. We've been more vocal with the school authorities and have got in active contact with the council. Today we've received good news! We don't have to go to the appeal tomorrow and my daughter is offered a place in the school! We should be receiving our official letter in a few days.
We can hardly believe it but glad that this has came to a good ending. It seems that there has been some kind of admin error in the application process (most probably linked to the online application database).
Thanks for all the helpful replies
Sorry for digging up an old thread - just had this myself!
During the online application process, it asks for any previous address in the last 3 years (or something along those lines).
We had indeed moved, 2 years earlier.
However, the 'system' has based our distance from schools on our old address, not our current address!
This making a difference of some 4 miles.
Luckily for us, the lady in the office at our 1st choice school actually noticed this error and phoned me. I sent her a copy of our council tax bill and our latest bank statement and she is happy to amend our record centrally.
She went on to say that the school was over subscribed, but taking our current address into account pushes us up the list considerably! So hopefully no issues.
Phew! Hopefully a stressful appeal avoided.
During the online application process, it asks for any previous address in the last 3 years (or something along those lines).
We had indeed moved, 2 years earlier.
However, the 'system' has based our distance from schools on our old address, not our current address!
This making a difference of some 4 miles.
Luckily for us, the lady in the office at our 1st choice school actually noticed this error and phoned me. I sent her a copy of our council tax bill and our latest bank statement and she is happy to amend our record centrally.
She went on to say that the school was over subscribed, but taking our current address into account pushes us up the list considerably! So hopefully no issues.
Phew! Hopefully a stressful appeal avoided.
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