Has anyone used a private detective?

[A bit down]

Hello, we're back. Thanks for all the contributions while we were away.

The weekend was interesting but I'm not sure I learned anything new. The first couple of days were very uncomfortable as we're not used to spending so much time together. My wife (I think I will just call her X from now on) was very irritable and I ended up taking the children out by myself a few times to spare them the hassle. Over the last day or so she seemed to mellow and there were glimpses of the person she can be (warm, funny, engaging) but they vanished just as quickly when the slightest thing didn't go her way. This morning she disappeared for an hour to make an urgent phone call.

One thing I did notice is that she doesn't have a good word to say about anyone. My parents, her parents, her friends and currently in particular her sister. This is because she has two sisters, one of whom is re-marrying later in the year (her first marriage ended when she had an affair - I saw the damage that did to the children and the extended family first hand) and she has asked sister number 2 to be maid of honour but not even asked X to be a bridesmaid. Normally this would seem unfair but I know X shares a lot of information with her sisters and I wonder if they know something I don't that has made them fall out. I have a good relationship with all of X's family and I know they think a lot of me and our children.

To answer some questions from previous posts:

- No affection over the weekend (from X) at all. It was her birthday while we were away but I didn't even try to give her a hug/kiss as I know she hates it and would push me away (have tried this many times). I slept in one room with my son, X was in the other with my daughter.

- There was voice connectivity (but no data so no internet) for both our networks so voice/text only.

- I went for a ride to clear my head. I was out for 45 mins while the children and X watched a repeat of X factor. I'm not a fan, they are. Hope this was OK.

- She doesn't connect her phone to a PC at all. This is interesting because synching her devices was one of the reasons she gave for wanting an iMac for Christmas. So far I don't think I have ever seen her use it.

- No reason was given for the weekend trip and although it was nice to be away, it was very much "business as usual". The house and belongings appear to be in one piece.

- Regarding life changes, when X first told me how she felt, I offered to resign from work the next day, get a less demanding job and be around more. I meant this and would do it. She said it would drive her mad if I was around all the time, and I actually believe this.

- I can probably afford to run two houses but I really don't want to. Even if I rented a house nearby and paid for childcare, it would be a very difficult argument to suggest that this would be a better scenario than the children living with their mother. I wouldn't want to go in this direction anyway - I know she loves them as much as I do and I wouldn't want to try for sole custody. Not fair on her, or, more importantly, them.

- The work thing is interesting. Since our daughter was born, X has been back to work twice. In both cases I picked up much of the housework (had to be done at weekends) and in both cases she decided very quickly that it was too much for her and that she wanted to stop (so she did). In both cases she liked having "her own money" but not doing what is required to earn it. This doesn't really bother me as my perspective is that my employer actually pays both of us to work for them - me directly and X indirectly as there is no way I would have been able to progress my career or commit as much to my work if X hadn't been taking care of things at home. X's view now is that she can't get a job at all because she would need to work around school hours and holidays. I have queried whether this is genuinely impossible as a large chunk of the population seems to manage it but it's a non-starter for discussion at the moment.

- X has a real problem with low self-esteem. It's something I have tried to bolster ever since I have known her - at her best she is smart, funny, passionate, energetic, attractive and great to be around and I have always told her as much (omitting the "at her best", obviously). It seems to stem from her childhood but it's not something she wanted to get into but she often says "I know I'm a rubbish mum", or more recently "I know I'm the bad guy in all this".

- I can't speak to her parents. They are very nice people but they cannot help getting involved in other people's business, nor can they be trusted to maintain confidentiality where appropriate. They are also terrified of having another daughter end a marriage and break up a a family due to infidelity and that would very much cloud their judgement.

As I mentioned above, I do want to know if she is having an affair and I am going to find out. I probably used the wrong language when I said I would "confront" her - I didn't mean aggressively, more in terms of being clear that I know what she is doing (definitively and with no chance for her to deny or come up with plausible excuses). I would still be able to be rational in working out the best way forward for the children, mostly because a bit of a numbness has come over me during the past few weeks and I don't seem to be capable of high or low emotion at the moment. Having proof of an affair would mean she has repeatedly lied to my face and broken the most serious promise she has ever made to me. This would tell me for certain that the marriage is not worth fighting for and I would never trust her again. At the moment, however slim, there is a chance that the problems remain internal to our marriage and can therefore possibly be worked on and resolved. I know this doesn't make sense to everyone, but it does to me.

In the short term, I can arrange the logistics to be in the places I need to be to see if my suspicions are confirmed. If this doesn't turn anything up I may turn to technological options.

I can see my options clearly now but at the moment they all look the same - bad. If I have to move out I will obviously lose access to the children and they will lose my ability to balance their mother's moods. I genuinely can't bear the thought (and I know this is unproven) of a stranger who had an affair with their mother having more access to my children than me. If I stay, things may get worse and more uncomfortable for everyone but at least I can try to manage the situation. It's horrible either way. It would be easy to fall into "I don't deserve this" and while that feels true, it isn't going to help the situation. Calm, rational thought and good decision making will. Easier said than done though.

Finally, I (and others) am beginning to notice the effect this is having on me. I have lost a lot of weight, I am sleeping for perhaps two hours a night (in the spare room) and I am starting to notice my attention is nowhere near where it needs to be at work. Although my job doesn't have a direct impact on the health/safety of others (thank goodness), an awful lot of other people's money depends on me making the right decisions. Finally, for the last few days I have had non-specific but very uncomfortable chest pains. I'm going to head to the doc this week as I have had high blood pressure before and although this situation is horrible, it isn't worth dying over.

I'll end with a question. I've pretty much laid out my marriage problems in their entirety in this thread - has anyone pulled a relationship back from this close to the edge?

Edited by A bit down on Monday 20th August 20:59

[A bit down]

^ Good grief. Sorry for such a long post.

[A bit down]

Jasandjules - thank you. Yes, it does.

Tyre smoke - I wouldn't blame you for missing it in the thread as my ramblings go on forever but I have sat her down and asked her outright - twice. She categorically denied it and was "hurt" by the accusation both times. Each time it set us back a long way in our discussions. I'm therefore not going to do it again unless I have absolute, definitive proof. As for having me where she wants me, you are absolutely right and that's why I'm inclined not to give in to my caveman tendencies and start shouting and screaming - there is no way I am giving her any ammunition or any more cards in her hand to take my children away.

Mr Trophy - thanks, but I'm loath to do that if she can talk her way out of it and make me look like the bad guy. If she is having an affair, I can find out. It's just a matter of committing to doing so (and understanding the can of worms I may open). I will discuss this with her when the time comes but at the moment I'm slightly ahead of the game and can start taking steps to protect myself. As cynical and negative as I am becoming there could be a rational explanation for everything, however unlikely, and if I go in all guns blazing and I'm wrong I'm likely to end up in an ugly mess. It's not easy for me to be patient here but I feel like I need to be.

Edit - thanks for the other comments, they appeared while I was typing this response.

Edited by A bit down on Monday 20th August 21:26

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The next "friend" meetings are on Tuesday and Thursday this week. We have actually missed two weeks of counselling because the counsellor was on holiday - we are back there next week and depending on how the next few days go I might ask X about the affair in the session - good idea or not? (I'm considering it because there will be a "referee" there to make sure things don't melt down).

I've just been speaking to X and she is now talking about staying in the house (rather than moving) to get stuck into some redecorating/renovation work and is asking me to order a skip for tomorrow (hopefully not to put all my clothes in). She was more civil, too. These mood swings and changes of direction are making things even more difficult - every so often it seems like a little bit of light filters through and there is some hope.

I may try the second honeymoon without phones thing, thanks for that. I suppose if she refuses outright to be without her phone for a couple of days I'll have a good idea of her priorities.

I know a lot of people are suggesting I get out now and I do understand the sentiment. It would just be such a big move. I'm sure everyone in my position feels the same way and it's heartening to see some posts from people who have been through it but (and I know people will already be sick of me banging on about this) my family means everything to me. Someone mentioned looking in the mirror earlier in the thread and I need to believe that whatever happens over the next few months, in the future I will always be able to look myself in the eye and know I did everything I could to honour my commitments. If I believe that I think I will be able to move on. I am starting to manage my finances though.

Anyway, it's been a long day so I'm calling it a night. This is usually quite an exciting time - do I get to "sleep" in my own bed or in the spare room? We'll see.

Thanks again for all the comments and I really do appreciate the support. I'm painfully aware that I'm only presenting one side of an ugly situation and that it would be easy for me to make myself look like exclusively the wounded party but it takes two to get into a situation like this and I'm grateful for all the thoughts/insight and experience you are sharing with me.

I'll keep you posted.

[A bit down]

Thanks again for the replies.

On the sleeping front, it's a bit of a game of cat and mouse. I can sleep where I like but X knows that I struggle to just get into bed and go to sleep (especially at the moment). I usually need to watch the TV or read for a while - I have no chance of going to sleep unless my brain is totally occupied and exhausted right up until the point of sleep, otherwise I'm lying in the dark with all this stuff going around in my head. If she wants the room to herself she just goes up to bed early and makes sure the lights are off and she is asleep (or pretending to be), knowing that makes it very difficult for me to sleep in that room. She wouldn't ever tell me I can't do anything.

I appreciate the offers from people for me to PM for more details - I may take you up on it.

Several people have suggested that there may be some mental health problems and I am sure this is true, although I don't know to what extent. She doesn't seem to find anything enjoyable at all, with the possible exception of when she goes out to see her friends, and generally portrays an air of misery (although sometimes, as I mentioned yesterday, she seems to snap out of it for a while). Just about everyone in her life has suggested it would be a good idea for her to speak to her GP and most people have tried to soften it as opposed to "you're going nuts, go and get some happy pills". She just won't have it at all though. I suspect this isn't unusual so when people are in this situation, how do they manage to take the first step and engage with their GP (ar at least start talking to a professional in some capacity)? Menopause is also a possibility and I know her mum went through it early. Are there any tests for menopause (apart from the obvious, which doesn't seem to be happening)?

I take the children out when X is in a bad mood because it's the only thing I can think of to do. In my mind it takes them from walking on eggshells and risking being yelled at for not putting a used plate in the sink to having some fun and feeling safe, secure and being able to have some fun which I think is crucial for children. When we get back X has usually calmed down and bestows excessive affection on them. I should stress there is never any threat of physical harm towards them and they are never at any risk. I just assume that X has had enough of them for the time being (and I do get that as she is with them almost all the time when they are not at school), especially over the last few weeks during the summer holidays. However, these swings from anger to over the top fuss-making can't be doing the kids any good in the long term. How are they going to judge where the line is in terms of behaviour if one parent is so inconsistent.

One thing that X and I have always been very good at is backing each other up on decisions in front of the children. If we disagree, we will discuss it later but the children have always had the impression that we support each other and that they can't divide and conquer us. Recently I have been struggling with this as X's behaviour has at times bordered on irrational but I have tried to find a bridge so that they children know where the line is but that X feels supported. However, X has started to undermine me. While we were away a TV programme was on one of the freeview channels during the daytime. It's apparently something my wife watches a lot at home (I forget what it was, some sort of american sitcom) and during the first five minutes there were references to "getting enough blood to the penis to satisfy my woman", "pissing someone off" and "I need coffee and carbohydrates immediately because I was having sex all night". I politely suggested that this programme might not be suitable for the children and X, in a huff, turned it over. My daughter started to complain. X said "it's your dad that won't let you watch it, if it was up to me I would let you". The kids then started on me.
I think this is just because she wanted to watch the programme and was annoyed at having to turn it over but for me it showed that a) her judgement is bad and b) she is now quite happy to undermine me in front of them.
I do realise that the language is quite tame but up until now we have been fairly consistent in what we will and won't allow them to watch (11 and 8). They'll have plenty of time to grow up.

Another long post. Sorry. Thanks again for all the constructive advice and thoughtful replies.

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slippery said:

Can't some of you lot understand that the OP couldn't give a toss about trying to hide money from his partner? Also, the constant references to proof regarding her infidelity affecting court in one way or another, are totally wide of the mark.

As someone has already pointed out, it will make no difference to a settlement at all. A judge won't care who has been sleeping with who. Even with evidence of it happening, there is always the counter argument that the other party behaved unreasonably and that this was the catalyst for the affair. The OP, being a reasonable and calculated individual, obviously wouldn't be-grudge his wife her fair share of the finances, in the event of a split. I mean, burying gold etc, seriously!

As he has already said, they have earned the money between them, as her role as home-maker has allowed him to commit more time and energy to his career. He wouldn't want his ex to suffer financial hardship while she is partly responsible for the bringing up of his children.

There is clearly enough money around between the two of them, for things not to be too harsh financially, if both sides remain sensible. It is his reluctance to put the happiness of himself, abover the happiness of others, that is making him reluctant to change things.

There is no point challenging her any further without evidence. She has already emphatically denied any wrong doing. The evidence is more important to him, because he can then justify ending the relationship on facts, as opposed to gut feel and strong circumstantial evidence. It will be useful to have, should at any time in the future X try to give a different version of events to family members etc, if she is that way inclined.

Alternatively, the evidence might just be the final thing to put her in a position where X is forced to decide which side of the fence she wants to be on.

It's clear that the lifestyle both parties are leading has led to them growing apart. As (mostly) men, we tend to feel that if we are bringing plenty of money into the house and providing lots of trinkets and holidays, we are doing our bit. That our wives should be grateful to us for the lifestyle that we give them etc. Threads like this act as a sobering reminder that big houses, flashy cars, nice clothes and expensive holidays are not always what a girl wants.

If this ends in divorce, I'm sure the OP will put less emphasis on being a provider into his new relationship and will put more emphasis into giving his new partner his time and attention. Those that play together, stay together.

I need to work harder on this balance too, or I'm sure I could find myself in the same position as the OP and if I did, it would be just as much my fault as my wife's.

This is pretty much my position in a nutshell. The only part of managing my finances I may do is to make sure I have a fund in case of emergencies.

Later today X may be off to meet one of her friends. I say "may" as it appears to be unconfirmed. If it does get confirmed I will be at the services to observe.

[A bit down]

Thanks for the offer of coming with me tonight but I'll be OK. I'm planning to be on foot at a safe distance.

I've just phoned home to say hi to my daughter and she's frustrated because mummy has spent two hours doing her hair and trying a load of new clothes on....an interesting approach for a meal with a friend that doesn't start for another six hours but again, vaguely plausible.

I'm really not looking forward to this but I've got a gut feeling I'm going to learn more tonight.

[A bit down]

Thanks again for the messages of support. Yes, I'm very nervous.

I have a bit more information around her planned activities for tonight and I will certainly be able to find out whether she is where she says she is.

I'm lucky enough to have several very close friends that live relatively locally to where I'll be tonight and they know I may need to drop in on them at short notice. To be honest though, no matter how big the shock I will not do anything at the time and I'm comfortable going by myself. I find it easier if I focus on what is best for the children and I know that confrontation/aggression is not it. I'm simply putting pieces together at the moment.

I hear what people are saying about the relationship not being worth saving as it has been so difficult for so long. You may well be right. On the other hand, what if an affair(s) have been going on for years? What if that has been the main contributor to her perceived lack of libido and behaviour towards me and the children? If that has been going on while she has happily been letting me provide a nice lifestyle for her over that period of time, without ever mentioning how serious she thought the situation was or trying to engage me on some improvements, don't I deserve to know? For me, that is a much better resolution than "we grew apart and decided to go our separate ways". It's all speculation at this point though.

I'm currently aware of three "seeing her friends" sessions scheduled for the next week or so. I will be in the vicinity for all of them. At some point I will set a timeline around whether I believe it is an affair or not but at the moment I'm probably a bit too raw and emotional to make good decisions, no matter how much I think I'm holding it together. If it is an affair, for reasons stated above it's over and all about the children. If it's not, it's still time for some home truths and big changes are needed. I will be fully supportive but will need to have absolute honesty if we are to have any chance.

Edited by A bit down on Tuesday 21st August 15:16

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Thanks for the advice all. I have spoken to a mate who is going to meet me later.

If anyone wants to PM me, I have ticked the relevant box. I feel a bit rude PMing others under the circumstances.

M3333 - thank you very much for the kind offer. There is a good chance I will take you up on it.

Right, deep breath and I'm off....

[A bit down]

I'm just back in after an interesting evening.

I went to the motorway services and had a good look around but no sign of her car. She had said that she was going to see her sister to try and patch up their argument so I went there next. No sign of her. It was about 8pm by this time and starting to go dark.

I tried to call X a couple of times to see if she was still with the kids so I could say goodnight to them but no answer (the first thing she did this evening was drop them off at her parents' house for a sleepover. X had said she would stay at her parents' place for a couple of hours and then go and see her sister who lives a couple of miles away).

I then called her mum and said good night to the kids. I asked if mummy was still there and my daughter said she had dropped them off but not stayed and gone to see her friend Y several hours ago (Y lives in a different town, all of this is taking place around 40 miles from where we live).

I tried to call X again to ask roughly what time she would be home (it's our wedding anniversary today, no I didn't receive a card although I did give one) to see if she wanted to grab a late bite to eat. No answer. Ten minutes later I got a text from her, saying "sorry, I'm at Y's house and we got talking - I didn't notice my phone had rung (the irony of this is not lost on me given how close her phone is at all times). Signal is bad so can't ring but will be leaving in about half an hour".

Where was I while my wife was spending quality time at her old friend Y's place? Standing outside Y's empty house.

I am absolutely gutted.

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oldbanger said:

To be honest, she's not really forcing you to sleep in a seperate bedroom is she? If you decide to sleep elsewhere if she doesn't fit her own routine in with your particular sleep schedule and rituals, that's your problem. You don't *have* to read/watch TV in bed, that's simply personal preference, even if it is a strong one. You could read or watch TV on the sofa, then go to bed, if you can't sleep without it. You could even choose to go to bed early and/or try other means to deal with your apparent tendency to ruminate without distractions - either chemically or otherwise.

You've talked a fair bit on here about stress and poor sleep and what you describe sounds to me like you've suffered from anxiety for quite a while. I sympathise about your difficulty sleeping. I've suffered from sleep problems since childhood, but I've looked for and found strategies to deal with them, mostly. What you have to realise as well is that long term sleep deprivation raises your cortisol levels, meaning that you may find it more difficult to think clearly - generally people tend to get more black and white in their thinking.

I haven't quoted the rest of your post, but I'm not sure that getting snippy/defensive when you indirectly criticise her choice of TV viewing is really that big a sign of disloyalty either.

So to me it's starting to sound like you both have your own issues. Could you not consider addressing yours as well as trying to get her to fix herself? I don't just mean for the sake of your relationship, but for yourself.

Thanks for the input and your experience regarding sleep problems is appreciated. I'm not sure I posted anywhere that she forces me to sleep in a separate room though? Our sleeping habits have been the same for more than 15 years and I almost always go to sleep before her as she likes to watch the TV until quite late (I have to get up around 5.30am most days so I try to get to sleep earlyish). I have always had a very active mind and it struggles to quiet when it's time to sleep - she knows this well and her recent behaviour is calculated to obtain a result.

I'm also not sure where I indirectly criticised her choice of TV viewing?

I do have my own issues, I'm sure everyone does and a situation like this doesn't come about through the actions of only one party. Perhaps some of my issues stem from the fact that I had a fairly difficult childhood which has meant I have always been determined to provide the best environment for my own family, sometimes at the cost of not letting them learn life lessons. That I have clearly failed makes things even more difficult to take.

Regarding what next - I don't know. I do know that I don't make good decisions based on emotion so nothing will be happening until tomorrow.

[A bit down]

Thank you for the kind words and sympathy everyone. I'm really not sure what I'll do next. I just feel overwhelmingly sad.

[A bit down]

Thanks again for all the replies (and for the advice - the sleep (and other) stuff from oldbanger was good). i would certainly much rather be asleep now but I can't.

I have just realised that several people have sent me PMs. Thanks very much for the kind words, advice and offers of help. I will reply to each of them later today.

Edited by A bit down on Wednesday 22 August 06:16

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southendpier said:

What did you suggest to her you should do on your wedding anniversary? I know you mentioned going out that evening nut that seemed last minute to catch her out. Must've been discussed over the weekend.

What does she think you do when she goes out and drops kids at a relations?

What did you do for the WA the previous year?

Last week I suggested we go for a meal and she said she'd think about it. We don't normally make a big deal of it but we do try to at least spend some time together on our anniversary, even if it's just a takeaway and a bottle of wine.

Over the weekend she booked the kids in at her mum's which I assumed meant we were going out. When it was clear she wasn't coming back early I tried to see if she wanted to do something later on. I've just realised that not only did she not get me a card, she didn't even acknowledge the day or wish me happy anniversary. It looks like she's just blocked it out.

When she drops the kids at relations she thinks I'm at work. Up until last night she was almost always right, sadly.

[A bit down]

I did see X last night briefly but we only spoke for a couple of minutes. I managed to ask if she and Y went out for a drink but she said they just stayed in Y's house and chatted over coffee. I obviously know this is not true.

M3333 - I have sent you a PM, thank you for the offer.

Regarding what next - I've had a bit of thinking time and I am not going to confront her until I have concrete evidence. I know a few posters are suggesting that this won't make any difference but it will to me. She is my wife, my marriage is the biggest commitment I have ever made and I cannot abandon it without a cast iron reason to do so, however damning the evidence looks (and I'm 99% sure that she is cheating but to me it's worth pursuing the 1% for now if it means we can be honest with each other, work on the marriage and keep the family unit together).

Assuming I do get the evidence, I will discuss it with her and try to come to an arrangement that is best for the children. As much as I want to hate her, I understand the law is not on my side and she will be able to manipulate the situation in her favour if she chooses to do so. I think remaining civil if those are the circumstances will be the hardest part.

I don't mean any offence to the solicitors who have kindly posted their advice on here but do I really need to engage one at this time? If we are to separate I would prefer to try the amicable route first, unless that is just naive and stupid?

To the people who think I'm making this up - there's nothing I can say or do to make you change your minds. I can absolutely guarantee that none of you would want to swap places with me though. It would take a particularly sick person to come up with this as a fantasy so I'm not going to put too much energy into trying to defend it, I've got other things to worry about.


Edited to add - I have had some truly fantastic PMs from PHers offering help, advice, information, equipment, holidays and experience. I have now replied to them all - thank you so much to each of you, I can't tell you how much it is appreciated.

Edited by A bit down on Wednesday 22 August 10:47

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Hello again. I'll try to answer some of the questions.

I have asked X twice if there is anyone else involved (I think I have mentioned this a couple of times in the thread). Once in the first five minutes after the "I'm not happy" conversation - it came as such a surprise (there was no preamble and no hints the conversation was coming) that I assumed there must have been a "trigger" and there was a chance it was someone else. She outright denied it and told me this is a classic example of how I don't understand her. The second time was the first time we went to counselling, a short while later. The counsellor asked me how I was feeling and I said I had wondered if there is someone else because of the weight loss/interest in appearance, etc. The counsellor asked X if she had anything she wanted to tell me and she said "only that I'm not having an affair and I resent the accusation". In my mind, this is different to a sit down "confrontation" along the lines of "I know you are having an affair. Tell me about it".

I'm not ready to do the latter yet because I don't have any evidence. If I present everything I have stated on this thread, at the moment she could claim it is all circumstantial. She could make me out to be the bad guy in the eyes of the children, family, etc. - "he was completely unreasonable and kept accusing me of something I didn't do, all because I was looking to inject a little fun into my life....that's why I left him and took the kids with me. I'm going to make his life hell". To the "why don't you just confront her" recommenders - believe me I want to, but the risk is just too great at the moment. For a short while I have a slight advantage and I intend to make the most of it.

The other reason for wanting the evidence (as I've previously stated) is that it would be absolute, undeniable proof that she has repeatedly lied to my face about the thing that she knows would have the biggest impact of all on me (losing my family). That would:

a) mean that I could rationally approach a separation knowing what is actually happening behind my back (having previously clarified my position from a legal perspective)

b) not have to live the rest of my life as the bad guy in the eyes of family and friends

c) mean that she has absolutely no respect for me, our marriage or our family

Although I will never have the better hand, this would give me a few more cards to play when the time comes. I'm struggling to understand why people don't get this?

X is unstable, irrational, emotional, moody and angry. She could take any course of action when this comes out and I need as much information as possible to protect me. I am not just collecting information about her possible infidelity. To those who are saying that the marriage has long been over and that I should forget about evidence and focus on moving on - I respect your opinion but I would struggle to move on until I know what has been happening. X will still be the mother of my children and if I am to retain a relationship with them I need to know as much about her state of mind and thought process as possible.

On the legal front, I think I will ask a friendly solicitor for some general separation advice but leave it there for now. I am capable of remaining rational, I do think X is entitled to her fair share of assets and I think the children would be best served with a joint custody arrangement where (for example) they are with X on Mon-Thurs and me from Fri-Sun - but that is some way off.

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The Beaver King said:

The OP's posts clearly show he doesn't hate his wife, which I think is a problem. Sometimes you need that hate to give you the strength to break away.

I don't think the OP believes that knowing everything will make it better, in fact, I think he knows it will make it worse. By making it worse, it will reinforce his resolve to leave. While some people can just 'get up and walk out', others find it difficult.

How many threads have we seen on PH that end with people shouting 'MTFU' or 'Just fking leave her'? Loads. Loads because sometimes it is hard and scary to walk away from something that has been a big part of your life...

This is more or less accurate - there is also a huge difference for me between walking away (metaphorically) from her and walking away from them.

I'm not surprised that this topic has generated several different viewpoints as people have different slants on life - I see this as healthy discussion.

I've just been speaking to my best man (and best friend of more than 30 years). His view is that it's important to get as much information as possible, understand my position and options in minute detail, have a plan and execute it on my own terms but that nothing can prepare me for how I'll feel during the real key moments of what's ahead and keeping as calm as possible is the most important thing.

Ultimately it's likely that we're all correct. Let's face it, the likely outcome is that she is having an affair, I will get proof and discuss it with her in as controlled a way as possible as part of a wider plan with a number of options, it's likely we will split and it's likely that we will both try and do our best for the children.

In some ways I am proud of myself for having lasted this long. In others I wish I had shown a bit more fighting spirit and been a bit less of a "pleaser". One of the things that came out during our counselling was that due to by childhood with its odd dynamic and ultimate implosion, I have developed an "I'll solve everyone's problems and it will all be OK" mentality. This makes a lot of sense and I'm sure its true. In hindsight it hasn't helped me in my marriage for the last seven or so years, that's for sure. Ironically, it has helped me massively in my career.

[A bit down]

Pig Skill said:

You know,I am sorry to admit that I thought exactly the same thing this morning. I just kind of feel this is a beautifully crafted internet thread designed to string people along and provide some self importance. OP is just too clam, too coherent and too well written. OP, do you have a dog who likes stealing chips from your mouth?

I am sorry to doubt you and hope if the situation is true that you take it on the chin. Reading the written word can fool people into disbelief without the use of other senses to collaborate an opinion. No offence man.

I know I said I wouldn't do this but says a lot about our society when the ability to write coherently, consider the feelings of others and not have a meltdown in a difficult situation are just so incredible that they just can't be real. I'm not special at all. I'm afraid I don't get the chips thing.
No offence taken though, you are of course entitled to your opinion and I agree that there is a lot going on here. It was writing everything down and seeing it in black and white that really galvanised me into action and perhaps that is why there seems to be a lot happening in a short space of time.

On another front, a couple of extremely generous PHers have provided me with some excellent ideas and some logistical help, for which I'm very grateful (as well as to everyone who sent me PMs). Unless X does something unexpected this evening it's unlikely that there will be any more updates to provide tonight. In the last hour a wave of tiredness has hit me and once the children are in bed I'm likely to try and get some sleep myself. The next "friend" visit is tomorrow night and I am prepared for it.

I have put this in couple of PMs but it's really quite moving that so many strangers seem to care about my predicament. For all of the conflicting views and disagreements, you are actively forcing me to consider all my options and analyse my/her behaviour in detail and I'm really grateful for that - many thanks.

[A bit down]

Pig Skill said:

OK OP, thanks for the response. Not that this means anything to you whatsoever but your reply has made me think twice. Sorry.

Good luck

Apologies from me too, I shouldn't have got snappy. If it's any excuse, I was really run down last night. Thanks for the good wishes.

[A bit down]

elanfan said:

So ABD is she out again tonight and are you going on surveillance?

Yes.