Has anyone used a private detective?
Discussion
Thanks for the update ABD.
Just my take on a few things you mentioned.
There isn’t any rule book as far as I know about introducing your kids to a new partner but I certainly wouldn’t allow the ex to dictate what’s right or wrong for you. I suppose all you can do is take your time when you meet someone new and explain the situation as I’m sure a new partner will have similar concerns to attend to assuming they have their own children. All I will say is this - Kids are wiley creatures (I think yours are a similar age to mine) and they pick up on all sorts. When I sat my 2 down and told them they were like “yeah we know Dad” and then rolled their eyes. Turns out they’d overheard me on the phone a few times even though I was trying to be very very discreet..!! In fact I think it has helped in the long run as my eldest said he was pleased for both me and his Mum that we had met someone new because we were both obviously a lot happier now.
My divorce came through in Feb of this year after I started proceedings in Sept 2014. Although mine was almost textbook ‘amicable’ it is a stressful time and got me down a few times. Just the thought of the ‘better times’ that are no more so my advice no matter how straight forward or complex the process becomes just be sure to take some time out for yourself. You also cannot rush the process so need to just go with the flow.
As for a relationship again there is no rulebook and you did the right thing calling things off if it didn’t feel right or your head was / is not in the right place. I do think there is a bit of pressure to be ‘dating’ especially when you get to our ages but in reality there is no pressure and being honest I quite liked having my own space and doing my own thing. I have since met a lovely lass and we’ve been seeing each other about 9 months now. Although I do find it very hard to allow myself to fully let go (once bitten and all that..!!). I know I do still have a few courses of bricks in my virtual barrier but I’m just taking things a day at a time and all being well as the relationship progresses things will fall into place.
Anyway, I wish you all the very best for the future and feel free to get in touch.
Just my take on a few things you mentioned.
There isn’t any rule book as far as I know about introducing your kids to a new partner but I certainly wouldn’t allow the ex to dictate what’s right or wrong for you. I suppose all you can do is take your time when you meet someone new and explain the situation as I’m sure a new partner will have similar concerns to attend to assuming they have their own children. All I will say is this - Kids are wiley creatures (I think yours are a similar age to mine) and they pick up on all sorts. When I sat my 2 down and told them they were like “yeah we know Dad” and then rolled their eyes. Turns out they’d overheard me on the phone a few times even though I was trying to be very very discreet..!! In fact I think it has helped in the long run as my eldest said he was pleased for both me and his Mum that we had met someone new because we were both obviously a lot happier now.
My divorce came through in Feb of this year after I started proceedings in Sept 2014. Although mine was almost textbook ‘amicable’ it is a stressful time and got me down a few times. Just the thought of the ‘better times’ that are no more so my advice no matter how straight forward or complex the process becomes just be sure to take some time out for yourself. You also cannot rush the process so need to just go with the flow.
As for a relationship again there is no rulebook and you did the right thing calling things off if it didn’t feel right or your head was / is not in the right place. I do think there is a bit of pressure to be ‘dating’ especially when you get to our ages but in reality there is no pressure and being honest I quite liked having my own space and doing my own thing. I have since met a lovely lass and we’ve been seeing each other about 9 months now. Although I do find it very hard to allow myself to fully let go (once bitten and all that..!!). I know I do still have a few courses of bricks in my virtual barrier but I’m just taking things a day at a time and all being well as the relationship progresses things will fall into place.
Anyway, I wish you all the very best for the future and feel free to get in touch.
I am glad this thread has popped up again. I never posted on it before, but very nearly did a few times. When I read some of the early posts it made my blood run cold as my near 20 year marriage was having problems and I had similar suspicions. ABD, I am glad you have moved on as well as you have since then.
One phrase used early on really struck a chord. It was that. "Women were like monkeys swinging in a tree, they do not let go of one branch before they have a hold of the new one", or words to that effect.
Our marriage had not been great for some years due to, amongst other things, her best friend being murdered, her business going bankrupt leaving us with large debts and her cancer (successfully treated). Also living abroad, we were very much on our own to face all these things, without near family and friends around. Despite everything, I always thought we would remain together and work things out.
Sadly she got chatting on facebook, to someone she knew from school in Norway.
This preditory tw4t knew full well what he was doing and made a play for her when we were struggling, complementing her on her pics and flattering her at every chance. Sadly she fell for it and is with him now. I managed to find passwords to her 3 constantly locked mobiles and got onto her FB so she could not deny it, although she did at first.
She always travelled a lot with her work. It got worse and worse but I stupidly thought for a long time that this was good as it hopefully meant things were going well for her in her job. I took care of the children, house etc in my 4 weeks home from the rigs. I did wonder how her boss could expect her to undertake such an amount of travelling but I later found out that she was directing it all. She even tried to palm me off by saying that it was easier to take some days off in Norway (where this guy lives) following a trip she had to Prague and before her next trip to Copenhagen.
Anyway, she had it all planned for a long time. I was the last to know. The last thing she did before she left was to convince our 17 year old daughter to go to Norway to study and to finance an apartment for our 18 year old daughter and her boyfriend. This meant she did not need to be in the house to care for them, so she was free to leave. Went from a family of 4 to just me in the house in a matter of weeks. Been quite a tough time.
One phrase used early on really struck a chord. It was that. "Women were like monkeys swinging in a tree, they do not let go of one branch before they have a hold of the new one", or words to that effect.
Our marriage had not been great for some years due to, amongst other things, her best friend being murdered, her business going bankrupt leaving us with large debts and her cancer (successfully treated). Also living abroad, we were very much on our own to face all these things, without near family and friends around. Despite everything, I always thought we would remain together and work things out.
Sadly she got chatting on facebook, to someone she knew from school in Norway.
This preditory tw4t knew full well what he was doing and made a play for her when we were struggling, complementing her on her pics and flattering her at every chance. Sadly she fell for it and is with him now. I managed to find passwords to her 3 constantly locked mobiles and got onto her FB so she could not deny it, although she did at first.
She always travelled a lot with her work. It got worse and worse but I stupidly thought for a long time that this was good as it hopefully meant things were going well for her in her job. I took care of the children, house etc in my 4 weeks home from the rigs. I did wonder how her boss could expect her to undertake such an amount of travelling but I later found out that she was directing it all. She even tried to palm me off by saying that it was easier to take some days off in Norway (where this guy lives) following a trip she had to Prague and before her next trip to Copenhagen.
Anyway, she had it all planned for a long time. I was the last to know. The last thing she did before she left was to convince our 17 year old daughter to go to Norway to study and to finance an apartment for our 18 year old daughter and her boyfriend. This meant she did not need to be in the house to care for them, so she was free to leave. Went from a family of 4 to just me in the house in a matter of weeks. Been quite a tough time.
Edited by el romeral on Monday 11th May 22:24
Edited by el romeral on Monday 11th May 22:25
el romeral said:
I am glad this thread has popped up again. I never posted on it before, but very nearly did a few times. When I read some of the early posts it made my blood run cold as my near 20 year marriage was having problems and I had similar suspicions. ABD, I am glad you have moved on as well as you have since then.
One phrase used early on really struck a chord. It was that. "Women were like monkeys swinging in a tree, they do not let go of one branch before they have a hold of the new one", or words to that effect.
Our marriage had not been great for some years due to, amongst other things, her best friend being murdered, her business going bankrupt leaving us with large debts and her cancer (successfully treated). Also living abroad, we were very much on our own to face all these things, without near family and friends around. Despite everything, I always thought we would remain together and work things out.
Sadly she got chatting on facebook, to someone she knew from school in Norway.
This preditory tw4t knew full well what he was doing and made a play for her when we were struggling, complementing her on her pics and flattering her at every chance. Sadly she fell for it and is with him now. I managed to find passwords to her 3 constantly locked mobiles and got onto her FB so she could not deny it, although she did at first.
She always travelled a lot with her work. It got worse and worse but I stupidly thought for a long time that this was good as it hopefully meant things were going well for her in her job. I took care of the children, house etc in my 4 weeks home from the rigs. I did wonder how her boss could expect her to undertake such an amount of travelling but I later found out that she was directing it all. She even tried to palm me off by saying that it was easier to take some days off in Norway (where this guy lives) following a trip she had to Prague and before her next trip to Copenhagen.
Anyway, she had it all planned for a long time. I was the last to know. The last thing she did before she left was to convince our 17 year old daughter to go to Norway to study and to finance an apartment for our 18 year old daughter and her boyfriend. This meant she did not need to be in the house to care for them, so she was free to leave. Went from a family of 4 to just me in the house in a matter of weeks. Been quite a tough time.
Snakes with tits. Most of them anyway.One phrase used early on really struck a chord. It was that. "Women were like monkeys swinging in a tree, they do not let go of one branch before they have a hold of the new one", or words to that effect.
Our marriage had not been great for some years due to, amongst other things, her best friend being murdered, her business going bankrupt leaving us with large debts and her cancer (successfully treated). Also living abroad, we were very much on our own to face all these things, without near family and friends around. Despite everything, I always thought we would remain together and work things out.
Sadly she got chatting on facebook, to someone she knew from school in Norway.
This preditory tw4t knew full well what he was doing and made a play for her when we were struggling, complementing her on her pics and flattering her at every chance. Sadly she fell for it and is with him now. I managed to find passwords to her 3 constantly locked mobiles and got onto her FB so she could not deny it, although she did at first.
She always travelled a lot with her work. It got worse and worse but I stupidly thought for a long time that this was good as it hopefully meant things were going well for her in her job. I took care of the children, house etc in my 4 weeks home from the rigs. I did wonder how her boss could expect her to undertake such an amount of travelling but I later found out that she was directing it all. She even tried to palm me off by saying that it was easier to take some days off in Norway (where this guy lives) following a trip she had to Prague and before her next trip to Copenhagen.
Anyway, she had it all planned for a long time. I was the last to know. The last thing she did before she left was to convince our 17 year old daughter to go to Norway to study and to finance an apartment for our 18 year old daughter and her boyfriend. This meant she did not need to be in the house to care for them, so she was free to leave. Went from a family of 4 to just me in the house in a matter of weeks. Been quite a tough time.
Edited by el romeral on Monday 11th May 22:24
Edited by el romeral on Monday 11th May 22:25
Glad things are going well for you STK and thanks for checking in.
Sorry to hear about your troubles theguvernor and el romeral - there are a lot of us around. Things do get better though, and PHers have been brilliant for me. There is always someone around (including me) to PM or post your thoughts with.
Following mikefacel and Joey Deacon's posts last week I ordered The Rational Male and I'm now 100 pages in. To be honest I'm finding it depressing because so many of the observations/character traits/behaviours are so well defined and so accurate in my own experience. I'm clearly a "Beta Provider" and it's staggering how accurately the behaviour of just about every woman in my life is portrayed (including being largely raised by my mother, lots of female friends during adolescence, few male role models). My own character is pretty much perfectly defined too, including my frustration at "doing everything right" and ending up with the poor end of the deal in my marriage. It's perhaps aimed at a slightly younger demographic but the observations seem to hold true across all ages.
This will probably come across in the wrong way, but I don't struggle for female attention. I'm fairly bright, reasonably attractive, have a good career, decent sense of humour and I'm a good communicator with integrity. However, women almost always fall into two categories - the ones who want to pin me down quickly and the ones who mess me around endlessly. There has almost never been anything else. It had never occurred to me (ego alert!) that it's me that is the problem. I can come across as "alpha" for a while but I'm really a "beta". I read The Game by Neil Strauss a couple of years ago and I did find that an eye-opener because some of the techniques clearly worked. It did all feel a bit false though.
I'm clinging on to a faint hope now that the "red pill" theory was invented to fit the behaviours observed rather than that we are just programmed this way. However, if I'm honest he has hit the nail right on the head with regards to my own life and those of others I'm close to. It's uncanny. Even in the last couple of weeks I have been used as an "orbiter" and the steps are perfectly described.
Obviously I will take this as just another input into my thought process (rather than treat it as gospel - plus I need to finish the book) but it leaves me with a bit of a dilemma. I have never believed in "the one" but I do enjoy female company greatly, both the physical and mental sides. If I am to improve things it appears I will have to view women through a different lens and modify my behaviour significantly. I can see that this can come across as misogynistic and I really don't want that. I like who I am and I'm comfortable in my own skin - it would just be good if that worked. Then again, I would say that wouldn't I, I'm an Average Frustrated Chump :-).
It's a complex subject and I do know I'm not in the right place to be making any significant decisions. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this though.
Sorry to hear about your troubles theguvernor and el romeral - there are a lot of us around. Things do get better though, and PHers have been brilliant for me. There is always someone around (including me) to PM or post your thoughts with.
Following mikefacel and Joey Deacon's posts last week I ordered The Rational Male and I'm now 100 pages in. To be honest I'm finding it depressing because so many of the observations/character traits/behaviours are so well defined and so accurate in my own experience. I'm clearly a "Beta Provider" and it's staggering how accurately the behaviour of just about every woman in my life is portrayed (including being largely raised by my mother, lots of female friends during adolescence, few male role models). My own character is pretty much perfectly defined too, including my frustration at "doing everything right" and ending up with the poor end of the deal in my marriage. It's perhaps aimed at a slightly younger demographic but the observations seem to hold true across all ages.
This will probably come across in the wrong way, but I don't struggle for female attention. I'm fairly bright, reasonably attractive, have a good career, decent sense of humour and I'm a good communicator with integrity. However, women almost always fall into two categories - the ones who want to pin me down quickly and the ones who mess me around endlessly. There has almost never been anything else. It had never occurred to me (ego alert!) that it's me that is the problem. I can come across as "alpha" for a while but I'm really a "beta". I read The Game by Neil Strauss a couple of years ago and I did find that an eye-opener because some of the techniques clearly worked. It did all feel a bit false though.
I'm clinging on to a faint hope now that the "red pill" theory was invented to fit the behaviours observed rather than that we are just programmed this way. However, if I'm honest he has hit the nail right on the head with regards to my own life and those of others I'm close to. It's uncanny. Even in the last couple of weeks I have been used as an "orbiter" and the steps are perfectly described.
Obviously I will take this as just another input into my thought process (rather than treat it as gospel - plus I need to finish the book) but it leaves me with a bit of a dilemma. I have never believed in "the one" but I do enjoy female company greatly, both the physical and mental sides. If I am to improve things it appears I will have to view women through a different lens and modify my behaviour significantly. I can see that this can come across as misogynistic and I really don't want that. I like who I am and I'm comfortable in my own skin - it would just be good if that worked. Then again, I would say that wouldn't I, I'm an Average Frustrated Chump :-).
It's a complex subject and I do know I'm not in the right place to be making any significant decisions. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this though.
Edited by A bit down on Tuesday 12th May 10:09
Amateurish said:
Well done on keeping such a level head. Don't forget that the divorce itself is only half the process - you also need a financial settlement. If you don't, look what happened to Dale Vince.
Thank you.Can you elaborate on the financial settlement piece please? I've looked at Mr Vince's circumstances and there doesn't seem to have been a decision made. The claim itself is scary though.
I'm not quite in his financial position but I do want divorce to be full and final - I paid out a lump sum initially and I pay a fairly hefty amount each month in maintenance as I want the children to have a nice lifestyle wherever they are. Both the lump and the monthly payment are well in excess of the various online calculators the system would "award".
This is been in position for well over two years but apart from some emails agreeing the numbers there is nothing 'in writing' and it wasn't mentioned at all in the divorce paperwork. I take it this should be a big red flag for me?
The actual divorce (the legal side) can be kept completely separate from the financial side of both parties can act like adults.
The issue when the solicitors get involved in the finance too is that your costs tend to go up and it can get very bitter and drawn out.
Unfortunately, hearing your story, it's unlikely your wife will be able to act maturely - but if she can it will be better all round. Then the 2 of you can agree the most equitable financial settlement.
The issue when the solicitors get involved in the finance too is that your costs tend to go up and it can get very bitter and drawn out.
Unfortunately, hearing your story, it's unlikely your wife will be able to act maturely - but if she can it will be better all round. Then the 2 of you can agree the most equitable financial settlement.
A bit down said:
If I am to improve things it appears I will have to view women through a different lens and modify my behaviour significantly. I can see that this can come across as misogynistic and I really don't want that.
Depressing isn't it. I think its relevant for all ages as I'm 24 and after breaking up with a long term girlfriend I had to change how I act, talk to and treat girls before I was attractive to them again.I haven't read the book but I can imagine the contents.
Fair play to you all for waiting for divorces and financial statements.
I couldn't wait. Took a while to get the ex to agree to the proceedings and ultimately to sign.
I wanted it properly done and squared away. I'm no Dale Vince but I wanted to make sure what was mine stayed that way and it helped me move on as meet a cracking girl and not worry about what could happen by means of my ex.
I couldn't wait. Took a while to get the ex to agree to the proceedings and ultimately to sign.
I wanted it properly done and squared away. I'm no Dale Vince but I wanted to make sure what was mine stayed that way and it helped me move on as meet a cracking girl and not worry about what could happen by means of my ex.
A bit down said:
Thank you.
Can you elaborate on the financial settlement piece please? I've looked at Mr Vince's circumstances and there doesn't seem to have been a decision made. The claim itself is scary though.
I'm not quite in his financial position but I do want divorce to be full and final - I paid out a lump sum initially and I pay a fairly hefty amount each month in maintenance as I want the children to have a nice lifestyle wherever they are. Both the lump and the monthly payment are well in excess of the various online calculators the system would "award".
This is been in position for well over two years but apart from some emails agreeing the numbers there is nothing 'in writing' and it wasn't mentioned at all in the divorce paperwork. I take it this should be a big red flag for me?
Yes it is a big red flag. Nothing is final until there is a court order. Can you elaborate on the financial settlement piece please? I've looked at Mr Vince's circumstances and there doesn't seem to have been a decision made. The claim itself is scary though.
I'm not quite in his financial position but I do want divorce to be full and final - I paid out a lump sum initially and I pay a fairly hefty amount each month in maintenance as I want the children to have a nice lifestyle wherever they are. Both the lump and the monthly payment are well in excess of the various online calculators the system would "award".
This is been in position for well over two years but apart from some emails agreeing the numbers there is nothing 'in writing' and it wasn't mentioned at all in the divorce paperwork. I take it this should be a big red flag for me?
The divorce and the financial settlement are two separate processes. You can come to an agreement together on the finances, and then ask the court to make the agreement binding. If you don't, then either party can bring a financial claim against the other many years down the line (as Mr Vince found out).
Someone in your position would be well advised to take legal advice on the financial side, even if your intention was to come to an amicable agreement. You should be negotiating from a position of knowledge.
StottyEvo said:
Depressing isn't it. I think its relevant for all ages as I'm 24 and after breaking up with a long term girlfriend I had to change how I act, talk to and treat girls before I was attractive to them again.
I haven't read the book but I can imagine the contents.
I think most of the book contents are blog posts from the Rational Male website so you could just scan there if you want a high level view. I had initially dismissed it as just laddish banter but many of the posters are smart, articulate clear thinkers (with the odd nutjob for good measure of course - in fact it's like PH in mirror form :-)).I haven't read the book but I can imagine the contents.
And yes, it is depressing.
Amateurish said:
Yes it is a big red flag. Nothing is final until there is a court order.
The divorce and the financial settlement are two separate processes. You can come to an agreement together on the finances, and then ask the court to make the agreement binding. If you don't, then either party can bring a financial claim against the other many years down the line (as Mr Vince found out).
Someone in your position would be well advised to take legal advice on the financial side, even if your intention was to come to an amicable agreement. You should be negotiating from a position of knowledge.
Thanks for this, I really appreciate the insight. Will look into it.The divorce and the financial settlement are two separate processes. You can come to an agreement together on the finances, and then ask the court to make the agreement binding. If you don't, then either party can bring a financial claim against the other many years down the line (as Mr Vince found out).
Someone in your position would be well advised to take legal advice on the financial side, even if your intention was to come to an amicable agreement. You should be negotiating from a position of knowledge.
olly22n said:
I was very sure to get a full and final financial settlement.
The only aspect I wasn't able to safeguard on was the childcare, as far as I could tell the CSA were all powerful and all reaching.
Recently it has been hard for me, looking back as the young stupid idiot that I was marrying my ex-wife. For the life of me I cannot see what attracted me to her, and think what life would have been like if I had swerved her, like I should.
Until my daughter is 18, (and well, lets be honest far beyond that) I will NEVER be able to block her out of my life. Its a f
king anchor dragging you down.
My life has pretty much improved in every aspect since leaving her, but its that last chain that I can't shake.
/sozfortheoutofthebluerant.
No problem, I can completely empathise. I keep myself sane by telling myself if I hadn't gone that way I wouldn't have my kids and I wouldn't change that for anything.The only aspect I wasn't able to safeguard on was the childcare, as far as I could tell the CSA were all powerful and all reaching.
Recently it has been hard for me, looking back as the young stupid idiot that I was marrying my ex-wife. For the life of me I cannot see what attracted me to her, and think what life would have been like if I had swerved her, like I should.
Until my daughter is 18, (and well, lets be honest far beyond that) I will NEVER be able to block her out of my life. Its a f
king anchor dragging you down. My life has pretty much improved in every aspect since leaving her, but its that last chain that I can't shake.
/sozfortheoutofthebluerant.
That said, when I got together with X I had a straight choice between two women. I have thought many times since that I made the wrong choice. Easy to do with hindsight though.
How are you paying your maintenance ABD? I hope it's a method which can be fully tracked and there's an official record of? I've heard of cases where cash has been paid only for the woman to turn round and state 'he's given me nothing' and it can't be proven. Ideally pay it be standing order if you can.
MissChief said:
How are you paying your maintenance ABD? I hope it's a method which can be fully tracked and there's an official record of? I've heard of cases where cash has been paid only for the woman to turn round and state 'he's given me nothing' and it can't be proven. Ideally pay it be standing order if you can.
Yes, it's paid by standing order each month. One thing I've got right!Wow - what a thread. It has taken me the best part of a day to read it, but glad i did.
ABD - well done, looks like you survivied to live the tale which is amazing. Up until recently my wife was acting aloof. Was sure she wasn't cheating however was well annoyed that there was no effort on her part for the relationship. Things have improved drastically to the extent were i can say it is better than ever.
Good man, well done.
ABD - well done, looks like you survivied to live the tale which is amazing. Up until recently my wife was acting aloof. Was sure she wasn't cheating however was well annoyed that there was no effort on her part for the relationship. Things have improved drastically to the extent were i can say it is better than ever.
Good man, well done.
Man hires a Chinese Private Investigator, Chen Lee, to watch his wife.
A few days later he gets this report : Sir.
I watch house.
You leave house.
He came to house.
He and she leave house.
I follow.
He and she go hotel.
I climb tree and look in window.
He kiss she.
She kiss he.
He strip.
She strip.
He play with she.
She play with he.
I play with me.
I fall out tree.
I not see.
No fee.
Chen Lee.
Very Sollee!
A few days later he gets this report : Sir.
I watch house.
You leave house.
He came to house.
He and she leave house.
I follow.
He and she go hotel.
I climb tree and look in window.
He kiss she.
She kiss he.
He strip.
She strip.
He play with she.
She play with he.
I play with me.
I fall out tree.
I not see.
No fee.
Chen Lee.
Very Sollee!
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