Has anyone used a private detective?

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nurburgring1 said:

OP, I read earlier in the thread that you had been offered advice from solicitors, but for the moment, you dont't wish to go down that route. If she is seeing someone else, which seems likely, she is weeks if not months in front of you emotionally and if you do end up separating, your idea of it being amicable may not be as straight forward as you would hope.
A friend of mine has been in this very situation, he also followed her to find out the truth. She had been seeing someone for months, so when he connfronted her, she just admited it and turned into the hardest bh you could ever imagine. She moved out and did her best to turn his kids againt him.
It took my friend over a year to even get his head round what had happend and in this time she had got advice from a solicitor and was demanding everything and more.
Whatever happens, I wish you good luck, it's not all about her, it's about you and the kids.

Thanks for the advice. I am going to take some initial advice just so that I understand the general legal position and the key dos and donts.

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Thanks again for all the kind words (and even the not so kind ones, at least you're giving me food for thought).

X is seeing a different friend tonight, but in a similar area. I have put a plan in place that (innocently) lets me know where she says she will be for the next four days. For at least some of that I will be able to check. I won't go into the how but I should have the opportunity to know not just where, but who she is meeting. The plan has already started and I'm not going to go into the details of it yet.

To be honest, I've had a bit of an emotional wobble this afternoon. I'm very uncomfortable with how low I am stooping to get proof (although many thanks to those who are helping me) and I've been a bit shaky today. I think the reality of the situation is beginning to sink in and it's hitting me quite hard. I'm normally a very positive person and that has got me through some difficult times - today a lot of dark thoughts have been creeping into my mind - what if it's one of my friends? What if she is planning to just up and leave in the next few days and I come home to an empty house? What if my children are already being prepared for a big change?

I know it's unlikely and I also understand that I am going through the standard phases of grief, and I know I will get through it. I'm just having a bad day.

I noticed when I was speaking to a friend earlier that all of my language talks about the future without X. I seem to have somehow subconsciously decided it's over but it's not an outright decision I have made. Whatever, I'm going to continue with my evidence gathering over the next couple of days and see how things do. It's extremely unpleasant to see my hands shaking as I'm typing though.

X did definitely go to Turkey. We dropped her off at the departure gate and met her through arrivals. She has some Turkish Lira left over and did have a tan. There are no pictures of the trip at all, apparently. I did try to show an interest.

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Hello again.

Well, I knew within an hour of her going out that she wasn't where she said she was. I know that she is 20 miles away at someone's house. She has been there for four hours and is still there now. I've put the children in bed and I'm waiting for her to come back, just so I can ask her how Z was and the film they were watching (which is what she was supposed to be doing). As soon as she confirms she was with Z, that will do it in terms of my mental position. I'm not going to act yet though.

I have set some other things up to gather more information over the next few days but that's about it. It's now all about making my plans and getting the best outcome for the children. In order to do that I will need as much bargaining power as possible. I don't intend to use it straight away and I will keep things as amenable as I can but if things get ugly I know the thing she will fear most is her family and (some of) her friends finding out (I'm sure some of them already know).

To add to my ammunition I would really like to know who this person is. Not to do anything silly (I know where he lives, I could do that if I chose to but there's no way I will get that low), but to find out how much he has to lose (wife, family, etc.). Does anyone know of a legal way to find out who lives at a particular address please?

On the off chance that it might happen, does anyone know if she can legally just up sticks with the kids and move in with someone else? I'm trying to make sure all my bases are covered.

Obviously I am very upset but I don't think this was unexpected for any of us. Thanks all for your support (and for the great PMs I have received this evening which I will reply to shortly), I will let you know what happens over the next few days. At the moment I'n glad I went down the "more evidence" route as it's moving me towards "closure". Let's see what the next few days bring.

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Well, that's that.

She came in and we had a quick chat about plans for the weekend. I asked her how the film was and she told me what film she had seen, what she thought of it and what her friend thought of it, while looking me right in the eye. I should have asked to see the tickets.

Regarding mobile bills, cornering friends and stuff - I don't need it now. I've got my proof of absolute, outright lies. I did consider this as although I don't (directly) pay her mobile bills, I do have very good contacts at her airtime provider.

Silvagod - I've read all the posts on the thread and also your story on the divorce forum. You should be proud f how you came through, it was stories like yours (and plenty of others) that made me realise I'll be OK in the end. When I said "moving towards closure", I meant exactly that - moving towards. I understand it will take a very long time for me to heal but I now feel like I'm moving in the "heal" direction rather than the "getting worse" direction, if that makes any sense. Sounds like psychobabble to me.

I do have a plan as to how and when to tackle X but I don't want to share any of my forward plans on here in the very slight chance that she somehow gets to see them. I'm being pretty careful with my logins and browsing, etc. but you never know.

I do have the exact address, yes. I have seen it with my own eyes. I'm not sure that how I got it is important. I would still like to carefully get some detail on the occupants but point taken that it may be a "meeting point" rather than the home of the person in question. For now, I'll call him A. I may find out more about this in the next few days.

I'm continuing to gather information because X has previously alluded to the fact that she would like to move away from where we live now and to another (specific) area. I didn't really get why that area until now (suffice to say it's where A lives) but I'm sure she still wants to move there and to be near the children I would probably need to move to that area too, which I don't want to do. I also want to have a fair discussion about custody of the children. I have highlighted my ideal in this regard elsewhere in the thread. In order to get what I need out of that conversation, I would be in a much stronger position to say "this is what I want out of the separation and if I get it no-one else (the implication being her family, his wife, etc.) needs to know". As much as I want to let everyone know just how she has behaved, I know things will be better for me and the children (and thank you for the many PMs I have had on the subject) if I use the information as bargaining power rather than catharsis. I also do not intend to tell her very much at all about what I know or how I know it - just enough to make her realise that I am serious and do have evidence. Who knows what she will give up then.

So there it is, the night my marriage (really) died. I have never depended on the kindness of strangers (apologies to Tenessee Williams) but I can't tell you how grateful I am for what this thread has become. I started it trying to find out if private detectives really work and I have been given a massive amount of support from a group people who don't know me from Adam. I'm really not sure if I would have acted the way I have or been able to keep calm and think things through if I hadn't had so much support and all I can think of to say is, really, thank you.

There is still a lot for me to do and a lot of experience for me to benefit from so I intend to keep updating the thread and I would very much appreciate your perspectives on what is happening.

I'm now going to kiss my kids and try to get some sleep.

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Thanks again for all the thought-provoking responses.

I probably have posted more on here that I would normally share. That said, I feel I have got more back than I have put in so on balance it has been worth it.

I accept that the marriage was in a bad state and that I have a degree of culpability. Although X has said she is "unsettled", we also agreed that during the counselling process we would act in as normal a way as possible towards the children and try to build some of our relationship back up. We agreed to an 8 week period of counselling and then to review at the end and we are less than half way through that.

I have genuinely tried to discuss our issues many, many times. In the end I decided that I could put up with a loveless marriage for the sake of the children, at least until they were older. Although there is no written agreement about this, it has been implicit between us for a long time. X also knows how seriously I take my family commitments and my marriage vows, and my views on infidelity. She claimed to hold the same views.

In some ways it is easier to accept the truth about the affair because it's not an absolute bolt from the blue. Our marriage was in trouble for a long time, clearly only one of us seriously wanted to save it and the other wasn't brave enough to tackle it a very long time ago (or very much since). I suppose this is the natural end point.

What probably hurts the most is that as this unfolds, things unknown to me have obviously been going on for a long time. For at least some of that time X has clearly been manipulating me for specific purposes and I have been very naive and blind. I will learn from this but it's going to be a very long time before I trust someone again.

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I did start out this thread by being clear that I'm painfully aware that this is only one side of a story and however much I try to be objective, there is no way I will be. In case it hasn't come across, I'm not looking to blame anyone by myself and X for the state our marriage has reached. Relationships don't get in this position via the actions of one person exclusively. I'm sure the corollary of this thread is out there somewhere, and I'm sure there will be truth in it.

It is the refusal to constructively engage in the issues at any point during the last few years and then both having the affair any lying about it that I'm finding very difficult to handle.

Apologies, I'm really struggling emotionally today. Haven't slept and am struggling to eat. I may lay off the thread for a little while.

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Thanks for asking.

I didn't sleep last night, I just can't clear my mind at all. I'm trying to control my thoughts but all sorts of "what ifs" are popping into my head and I'm struggling to shake them. It's very hard not to analyse situations from the past and wonder what I didn't know at the time.

However, I did get some sleep today. I took the kids to the cinema this afternoon and as soon as the film started I promptly fell asleep. The children woke me up as the credits were rolling. Apparently they enjoyed the film.

I'm also really struggling to remain civil towards X and not to let on. I will be able to hold out as long as I need to before raising the subject (about another week, when I will have more information and the children will be back at school) but it's proving hard. I have a horrible sick, tight feeling in my stomach all the time and as she is being her usual snappy self, it's all I can do not to let fly. This is also the first time I have ever felt physical manifestations of stress and it's horrible. I'm normally OK at handling pressure but last night my vision went blurry in my right eye for abut two hours and I had a splitting headache this morning.

Tomorrow should be interesting. We have a family occasion and most of the relatives will be around. I can't say I'm looking forward to it but I know I just need to suck it up for another week or so before I can execute my plan - which will make the future a lot better for me and the children. Now is too soon.

I've taken legal advice and fully understand my position, although I haven't instructed my solicitor yet as I want to at least try and be amicable for the first pass.

Once again thank you for all the support and good wishes and sorry for the tone of negativity in my posts - I think adrenaline has worn off and reality is sinking in.

Edited by A bit down on Saturday 25th August 20:08

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Thanks for the suggestions. I did manage to get to sleep for a little while but I've been awake for the last hour or so. I'm trying out letting my mind go where it wants to but things (for me at least) always seem worse at night.

No, my plan doesn't involve anything silly. I'm lucky in that I'm not a volatile character. In fact, I'm struggling to remember ever losing my temper.

I spent a bit of time chatting to friends yesterday and it did help, even if just by reminding me that there are people who are unequivocally on my side.

I'm sure I'll feel better in the morning.

Edited by A bit down on Sunday 26th August 03:29

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Thanks again for the advice.

I've had a better day today. I did get some sleep and I have eaten reasonably. I've now been able to see X for the person she is - the way she speaks to people, the way she conducts herself, the things that are important to her, etc. It's quite a lot easier once the rose tints have been removed.

I'm sure things will be up and down for a while yet but hopefully I've reached the bottom and am heading back upwards.

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Thanks again for the good wishes.

Not a great deal has happened over the last couple of days. I'm still gathering information and intend to do that for the rest of this week. I'm still quite up and down emotionally but I'm able to eat and sleep a bit better. The kids and I had a lot of fun over the weekend and really enjoyed each other's company though. I'm not really looking forward to next week but at least I'll be able to move forward then.

I'm back in work today and intend to immerse myself for much of this week to take my mind off things at home.

Regarding the car question above - apologies but not something I want to share in public at this stage.

I'll keep the thread updated sporadically this week but next week is when I'm more likely to be asking for opinions and advice.

Thanks again,

ABD

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Sorry for not updating sooner. I really have immersed myself in work for the last few days. The next couple should be interesting though. I will post about them afterwards, just in case.

I feel like I'm in a bit of a limbo position at the moment so I'm still quite up and down but this time next week I hope to be on the way to an improved life.

One or two PHers have been a massive help during this process - I won't name them for obvious reasons but they know who they are. Thank you very much guys.

I'll post again in a day or so.

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Thanks again for the comments all.

Tonight was interesting. X was again not where she said she would be and this time I managed to see her with another person. I now have the other person's car registration number...

I've been extremely busy at work over the last few days and it has made the time fly. It's likely to be Mon/Tues next week when we have the conversation. In the meantime, there are still several events taking place that will let me gather more information. Short of catching them in the act, I think I've got more or less all that I need now but I might as well follow through with things I have planned.

I've started to think a bit about how the children will take us splitting up. This is a tricky one as just thinking about it really hurts, but I know I need to so that it's handled as well as possible.

Thanks to whoever recommended protein shakes, by the way. First time I have ever tried supplements and they are quite easy to stomach when you're struggling to eat. I've had fewer symptoms of stress over the last few days but I'm now very, very tired.

Apologies that I've not yet answered all PMs, I'm having some problems with email at the moment.

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Once again, thank you for the support and advice everyone - it really is helping.

In order to help me close things out (and, I reiterate, not to do anything silly), does anyone know a relatively quick way of finding out the registered owner of a car from the registration number please? I don't really have time to involve the DVLA at this stage.

Edit - re the other person, I couldn't really tell. I was some distance away and it was dark.

Edited by A bit down on Friday 31st August 08:55

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I know this sounds brutal, but the more evidence I have the better if things get ugly.

I'll be trying hard to make things amicable and all I will do initially is ask her seriously if she has anything to tell me. I will only use the things I know if I need to. For example (assuming that I can calmly explain to her that I know what she has been doing and I want us to separate):

Me: "I would like joint custody of the children"
Her: "OK then, let's get it drawn up and get on with our lives"

This is ideal and none of my evidence is relevant. It will probably never see the light of day. But what if:

Me: "I would like joint custody of the children"
Her: "No chance, they are living with me - get out and only come back to see them when the law says you can. I'm now going to start telling everyone this is all your fault and lie about you to anyone who will listen, including the children"

The only things that might make her change her mind if things go this way are:

a) her parents finding out, in detail, just what she has been up to and how much she has manipulated them, the children and everyone else over the last few months. Proven with hard facts.

and

b) A's wife finding out the same level of detail

I stress that I don't intend for it to go this way and I sincerely hope it doesn't but not to get too melodramatic, when it comes to fighting dirty to do the right thing by my children, I will absolutely use every weapon in my arsenal.

Although the information that I have and the threats I can make are by no means guaranteed to produce an optimised outcome, they obviously shorten the odds in my favour....don't they?

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Mobile Chicane said:

I phrase it that the way someone treated their former partner, is how they'll treat you.

This is an interesting point, and certainly rings true in this case (I think I explained how we first met earlier in the thread).

I've had a slightly bizarre 24 hours. X suddenly wants to talk about "us" all the time. She feels that I have lost the enthusiasm and energy for keeping things together that I first had when she dropped the bomb and that I almost seem resigned to us separating. While it's true that, over the last week in particular, I have been struggling to say all the right things (I just can't bring myself to lie to her face and say that I still want everything to be OK) and therefore have been avoiding conversations on the subject, I can't help feeling really, really annoyed. She has also reminded me a couple of times how important the children are and how much it would hurt them if we were to split!

I honestly can't believe how anyone can be this manipulative. Sorry for finally aiming some "blame", but it was her that decided we were no longer going to be intimate, it is her that creates a bad atmosphere in the house, it was her that (only a few weeks ago) decided she had had enough and wanted a trial separation, and it is her that has been unfaithful and lied about it to my face. She's now trying to turn it around so that I will think I'm being the "bad guy" if we split up. Obviously she doesn't know what's coming but this behaviour is awful.

I don't know whether things have broken up with A, or whether she was quite comfortable for me to be desperately trying to keep things together while she was playing away so that she knew she could keep on having her cake and eating it and she's now worried that the safety net may be about to go. It could be something else, I don't know. One thing I'm very glad of is that I have given myself space to see things for what they are. If I was going through this purely taking things at face value it would be tearing me apart (and it has been bad enough as it is).

To answer a question from above, I have been waiting for next week to have the conversation because the children are back in school. They won't be able to overhear any of the conversation, there will be several hours for X and I to talk with no outside time pressure, if things kick off next week I know they will be safe and secure during the daytime and finally because I still don't trust X not to do something stupid.

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anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thank you for the insight. "He" will be welcome to her.

I appreciate you are having fun with this because it isn't real to you. That is of course your prerogative. At no stage have I claimed that I am not culpable in the state of our relationship.

I have a plan. I gave myself a period to consider things because although this hit me hard emotionally I knew I would be able to deal with it appropriately in time. I have an exact time and place in mind within the next 72 hours to have the conversation by which stage I will be in the best position I possibly can be. Whether it works or not, we will see. My objective is to maximise my access to my children following the split. I don't have any ego in this so baiting me with images of other men and what they may do to her isn't going to work. I'm also not really concerned about the "you will pay" angle as I will pay what I am obliged to, and no more. I am relatively intelligent and will ensure that I am not taken advantage of. Bitterness is a destructive emotion.

Without in any way pitching for sympathy, I have had a number of seriously trying times in my life. Getting through them has made me practical, resilient and resourceful. It's also made me realise that life is hard, and optimised outcomes rarely happen. I'm fully aware that in order to get what I want, I will also have to deal with a lot of things that I don't. So be it.

Thanks again for the practical replies and support everyone.

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It seems I misinterpreted Tonker's post. Apologies.

Things are very, very odd here at the moment. I'm having to stop and remind myself of the facts of the situation at least once a day as X is doing nothing but making positive noises. It does indeed make me look like I'm unreasonable when I don't jump at reconciliation. Either very clever, or a big change of heart.

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cardigankid said:

Morals and principles have nothing to do with this.

They do for me. I won't let this turn me into someone I'm not.

I do hear what you are saying about how ugly things are likely to get though. I'm not looking forward to it at all.

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Thanks again for all the replies.

It's quite correct that I am trying to learn from the mistakes/good results of others and integrating them with my own thoughts on the situation.

I have disregarded the extremist views and I'm not naive. I fully expect things to get very, very difficult and I'm not blind to the person X has become. The unpredictability of her likely response is one of the reasons I am waiting until the children go back to school before acting.

As I mentioned before, it takes a great deal to get me to lose control. At times this is a bad thing because it can make me appear dispassionate but in this case it will really help in my view. When was the last time an important problem/situation of any kind was best resolved by heated confrontation? The person who can remain in control and act calmly under pressure usually comes out better off. I am not at all confusing "in control" for "being soft" here - in fact, quite the opposite. Serious actions taken with a clear head have much more impact than those made in the heat of the moment in my opinion.

I would of course prefer an amicable resolution and for the children's benefit that is where I will start things off. If things get worse then I have plans in place for that, too. I suppose the "walk softly and carry a big stick" view best summarises how I have gone about this.

I actually really appreciate the opposing views. The challenging approach that one or two have taken has benefitted me greatly too. I wouldn't want to lock the thread because someone thinks I am just doing everything I am told to do. That's far from the case.

Apart from some outlying posts, I don't think the thread has become anti-women. It's clear that some people have been deeply hurt by women (as someone mentioned, I'm sure there is a corollary thread somewhere on Mumsnet) and project that view but I think most posters are viewing this not as an "all women behave badly" thread but more as an "X is behaving badly" thread. In this case, X just happens to be a woman.

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Hello,

All of my information gathering is now complete. From here on in I'm sure things will get ugly.

Regarding the above post, ironically I first signed up under this ID a month or so ago to ask if anyone had experienced a trial separation and whether it worked. I realised I couldn't post in the lounge so left it for a while and things moved on quite significantly at this end.

As for the question as to whether I could forgive and work on things - no. It's not the affair in itself that's the problem, it's the absolute breach of trust. I could never get that back. Plus, the relationship wasn't exactly healthy to begin with.