Show us your new shoes
Discussion
InductionRoar said:
I liken rubber soles to diesel engines - superior under a strict set of circumstances but not the purist's choice.
I love shoes but happily wear a rubber sole if available. When looking at shoes, unless you can see the sole it's very difficult to tell from the side or from above. Perhaps if you work in a carpeted environment and never have to wear your shoes outside they might be ok.
If you were inventing shoes today you'd never consider putting leather on the sole, people would think you were mad. It's a completely unsuitable and inferior material in every way.
It still suits the manufacturers because it doesn't last long and people have to either buy new shoes or pay for resoles. No wonder they're not in a hurry to change.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 1st January 14:16
El stovey said:
InductionRoar said:
I liken rubber soles to diesel engines - superior under a strict set of circumstances but not the purist's choice.
I love shoes but happily wear a rubber sole if available. When looking at shoes, unless you can see the sole it's very difficult to tell from the side or from above. Perhaps if you work in a carpeted environment and never have to wear your shoes outside they might be ok.
If you were inventing shoes today you'd never consider putting leather on the sole, people would think you were mad. It's a completely unsuitable and inferior material in every way.
It still suits the manufacturers because it doesn't last long and people have to either buy new shoes or pay for resoles. No wonder they're not in a hurry to change.
Edited by El stovey on Sunday 1st January 14:16
My intention was to merely demonstrate that leather is not the anachronistic commodity many believe it to be and that it is the traditional and correct choice for fine footwear. I never suggested that leather didn't have its drawbacks but for me and my requirements the pros far outweigh the cons and all but one pair of my shoes/boots are leather soled.
To suggest leather is completely unsuitable and inferior in every way is akin to suggesting cashmere is inferior to cotton because it doesn't last as long. Many fine materials suffer less durability over their more mundane counterparts but I'm not sure how much of a consideration that ought to be.
I concede that leather is not a perfect material (as few natural products are) though it certainly has its place in modern life and is still regarded by many as a luxury. Synthetic products will almost always be superior (under a set criteria) than the natural product it replaces (why bother otherwise?) but such superiority very rarely equates to desirability and that, IMO, is one area where leather unquestionably beats rubber.
RichB said:
I bought a pair of Loake boots very similar to those last winter. Had to return them for a 1/2 size down as they were generously cut.
The Loake boots I just bought look very similar to those tan grain boots but without the punch detailing. I usually take a half size so I had to go down half a size as Debenhams only had full sizes. Hopefully I got lucky with the fit.FreeLitres said:
The Loake boots I just bought look very similar to those tan grain boots but without the punch detailing. I usually take a half size so I had to go down half a size as Debenhams only had full sizes. Hopefully I got lucky with the fit.
Hmmm... up or down a half size? I don't like doing either honestly. The shoes never seem to fit correctly. Shoe repairers and retailers seem to advocate half a size down, but tight shoes are miserable. Half a size up with insoles feels like a bodge and the shoes always seem a little too voluminous. The onlly shoes I ever feel totally happy with are those that are the correct size.
straight dad said:
Was that due to comfort, wear or looks? This will be my second pair, first pair, great comfort and good wear.
I have a pair of these that wore well, they are a bit scruffy now so I keep them for the garden. Apart from his wedding, I've never seen my brother in law in anything else. When I came to replace mine I couldn't find any under about £70. I ended up with some of these from TK Max for £55.
which have been great so far too.Trustmeimadoctor said:
Bought these yesterday as apparently I'm going to do the Yorkshire three peaks. Furthest I usually go is up stairs!
Have keen actually started selling in the UK then? last time I looked they were damn near impossible to buy; I've ~10 pairs, all bought in the US. Comfy as anything, though longevity is mediocre.straight dad said:
berlintaxi said:
straight dad said:
£40 Amazon
I'd give Amazon £40 to take them back, probably the worst pair of shoes I have ever owned.13m said:
Hmmm... up or down a half size? I don't like doing either honestly. The shoes never seem to fit correctly.
Shoe repairers and retailers seem to advocate half a size down, but tight shoes are miserable. Half a size up with insoles feels like a bodge and the shoes always seem a little too voluminous. The only shoes I ever feel totally happy with are those that are the correct size.
in the case of my Loake boots it meant they are the correct size.Shoe repairers and retailers seem to advocate half a size down, but tight shoes are miserable. Half a size up with insoles feels like a bodge and the shoes always seem a little too voluminous. The only shoes I ever feel totally happy with are those that are the correct size.
jimmyjimjim said:
Trustmeimadoctor said:
Bought these yesterday as apparently I'm going to do the Yorkshire three peaks. Furthest I usually go is up stairs!
Have keen actually started selling in the UK then? last time I looked they were damn near impossible to buy; I've ~10 pairs, all bought in the US. Comfy as anything, though longevity is mediocre.InductionRoar said:
So you have moved on from your original assertion that it is a combination of durability and comfort that has led to Dainite's current popularity and on to attributing its prior lack of popularity to the fact that most shoemakers are old farts and stuck in a time warp? 
Not sure where you are getting your information regarding the age of shoemakers from or even what relevance you think that would have on their work but it is worth noting that Nicholas Templeman is some twenty years younger than the CEO of Apple. I think this (carefully curated to prove my point) fact proves that age has no bearing on the output of the individual but rather the market they are catering for.
I have no doubt that leather soled shoes did (do?) rule in the cities for the reasons you say though the country gents were having their shoes made by the same "old farts" and could have just as easily specced Dainite had they desired. I have never seen any vintage shoes soled with rubber which would suggest that few such commissions were ever made, despite its apparent superiority and availability.
You said in your earlier post that "it is a very hard sell to get someone to buy a classic with a Danite sole". Why do you feel the need to convert these customers? How do you convince them?
A few points there. Not sure where you are getting your information regarding the age of shoemakers from or even what relevance you think that would have on their work but it is worth noting that Nicholas Templeman is some twenty years younger than the CEO of Apple. I think this (carefully curated to prove my point) fact proves that age has no bearing on the output of the individual but rather the market they are catering for.
I have no doubt that leather soled shoes did (do?) rule in the cities for the reasons you say though the country gents were having their shoes made by the same "old farts" and could have just as easily specced Dainite had they desired. I have never seen any vintage shoes soled with rubber which would suggest that few such commissions were ever made, despite its apparent superiority and availability.
gizlaroc said:
In the last 5 or so years we have seen a real change within the shoe industry, many of the people running the companies have retired, e have gone from having loads of 70 year old blokes running things to much younger guys who let the design teams and marketing departments have more say in what is being made, and that is generally what is being asked for by the customer too.
I think when we confuse marketing with craftsmanship and popularity with quality we are comparing apples with dinosaurs. gizlaroc said:
How is a Danite sole any different in construction to a leather sole?
There is no similarity between leather and rubber.You said in your earlier post that "it is a very hard sell to get someone to buy a classic with a Danite sole". Why do you feel the need to convert these customers? How do you convince them?
gizlaroc said:
I don't really get your analogy to be honest. Diesel vs Petrol?
More like the guy who stands in a Porsche showroom saying "Yeah, they are OK I guess, but anything made after 1982...............".
I think you do get it but I also see the relevance of yours and agree. Hand-built classics will always attract a different audience which I think is an equally appropriate analogy.More like the guy who stands in a Porsche showroom saying "Yeah, they are OK I guess, but anything made after 1982...............".
A lot of the people running the shoe companies were of an age where they believed that using rubber soles impacted on the image of their brand. Some shoes were offered with them but they tended to be the chunkier stuff, the ones for the farmers or for your weekend house in the Cotswolds.
However, many of the old guard within the footwear industry have moved on now, a hell of a lot in the last 5-10 years, and at the same time we have been seeing tweeds, Barbour and god forbid hipsters etc. being very much the look about town, we have seen a move towards more and more 'classic' shoes with Danite or Goodyear Commando soles.
Of course there will always be exceptions and those who pretty much only produce leather soled shoes, but you can not get round the fact there has been an amazing increase in sales and shoes offered with these units from all the main footwear brands.
Comfort or old farts?
Both, once people try a Danite version of their favourite shoe many don't go back to the leather version. The industry has had to shake off the image that 'if it is not leather it is not a proper shoe', and I would say it is almost there. You can see from the amount of guys on the forums who send off their classic leather to have a rubber unit attached.
It is the same with leather vs synthetic on winter boots, many of the European brands think we are mad for wanting leather on a winter boot, over there they sell loads of synthetic. Say synthetic to them and they think, breathable, quick drying, waterpoof, easy care blah blah blah.... Over here we think 'plastic'.
Why do we try and get them to have a go with a rubber unit?
Because 9 out of 10 people prefer them once they have lived with them, they wear better, the feel safer under foot, they tend to be far more comfortable from new (I admit a leather sole is nice after a few months when it has properly moulded to your foot) and you can leave yourself a little more room in it as the sole will flex, so no slipping on the heel, and these days you can't tell what the sole is when wearing them. Long gone are the days when if you wanted rubber soles you could have it in farmers yellow leather in a chunky brogue gibson or boot only, most of their ranges ae offered in leather or rubber.
How do I convince them? Get them to try both on. They then convince themselves.
I don't get why you think construction of a goodyear welted leather or rubber sole is different?
The only difference I can think of is sometimes we would put a midsole on a thin Danite unit if the original shoe had a very thick leather sole.
I don't get your analogy regarding petrol with diesel, I am guessing you said it as a bit of a put down or because you genuinely believe people who buy rubber soled shoes don't appreciate quality shoes. Either I think is nonsense.
Anyway, Happy New Year folks!
Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 2nd January 11:27
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