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KingNothing

1,255 posts

38 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
If I had the choice I would have prefered not to have been christened, and if I have any children in the future, under no certain terms will they be getting christened.

Eric Mc

76,743 posts

150 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Good for you. That's not the question though.

What happens when parents disagree over an issue.

Does it become a permanent stand-off or can some compromise be reached.

If one has principles about something, that is all well and good. But sometimes a moderation of one's principles might be the saving of a relationship - if the relationship is deemed important enough.

SMGB

786 posts

24 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Same deal as us, I'm an atheist, atheist father. Wife is Church of Scotland. After a very frosty interview with the minister in her home town we had a registry office ceremony down here. smile. Our kids were christened here as it seemed a fair trade off, plus the Vicar showed me a bit of respect.
A baby is a bit life changing, and not neccesarily for the better, but the female biological clock is not to be denied.

KingNothing

1,255 posts

38 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
The OP's proposed idea sounds reasonable to me as going against it is just disregarding it fully then nothing can change, you can't undo it when the child decides 15 years down teh line it was a load of st, what's the rush? Have a party to welcome the child to the family and friends; as face it, that's all a christening is nowadays; an excuse for a party, otherwise there wouldn't be so many non-religious people doing it. Forcing it on a child I don't see the point, it's as bad as forcing them to be vegetarians just because you are, let the child decide when they're older.

Road2Ruin

2,859 posts

101 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
GTO Scott said:
I'm too selfish to deal with having a child. A child will get in the way of what I want from life, in terms of where I can go, what I can buy and how I can live. Life was getting close to how I wanted it - own house, wife, and Labrador. Harry (the Labrador) is my substitute for a child - he is my boy, doesn't need clothes (grows his own), doesn't need to go to school, is excited by the prospect of eating left-overs, gives unconditional affection even when he's just had a bking, and wants nothing more complex than a tennis ball to play with.

Children are much more expensive.

As for a non-religious ceremony, she won't have that. Has to be a christening, has to be in a certain church.

We got married at Pendennis Castle - so no religious element in the marriage.
I give the marriage 6 months. What a knob. Poor kid. I hope you feel different when your child arrives.

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GTO Scott

Original Poster:

2,752 posts

109 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
DanL said:
Right, I'm going to ignore the contraception side of things - what's done is done, although quite why you've not had a vasectomy is a bit of a mystery given that you never wanted children.
Simple. I wanted one and was told to come back when I hit 30 by the doctor.

DanL said:
The important issue here is that you seem to believe being Christened will somehow remove the child's ability to choose whether to believe in God or not. This is, patently, nonsense. You child won't remember it happening, and it'll have no effect on her future views... What will is how she's brought up the first few years of her life, and if your wife is inclined to take her to church and tell her all about God then it's *this* that you should be worrying about if you want you child to be able to make her own mind up. You'll have to give her the other side of the argument.
If you care to read back through the last eight pages, you'll find not a single reference from me about the child being 'locked in' to the church once she is baptised. I'm getting tired of being misunderstood, so I'll list my issues with the christening below:
1. The christening is unnecessary at 6 weeks old - apart from a load of bks about it being tradition there is no need.
2. I believe she should have the choice when she is of age - surely if she chooses to follow a life guided by Christianity her baptism is a day she would like to remember and cherish?
3. I was baptised, I am now an atheist. My sister was not, but chose as an adult to believe and be baptised. Therefore there is no reason to believe that early baptism is somehow forcing her to be a Christian.
4. I have issues with dealing with children, but having been told now by everyone that I need to be involved, I need to help guide her, I need to take an interest, I find it somewhat frustrating that the first big decision I try to have some input into seems to require me to shut the fk up and go along with it regardless of how I feel.

In short, why am I bothering to care when it seems like all I'm needed for is money and discipline?

ClaphamGT3

4,314 posts

128 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all

[/quote] , why am I bothering to care when it seems like all I'm needed for is money and discipline?

[/quote]

But Scott, you're going to be needed for so much more than that.

A lot of judgementalists on this thread but one piece of advice from me; try to relax and take parenthood as it comes. Some things will be really hard, a lot will be easier than you ever dared hope and you will, in time, find the right bond with your daughter.

A few days out from the birth - POSSIBLY being egged on by PiLs - your wife won't be at her most rational; I'd try deflecting the Christening topic (which in the grand scheme of things is a huge side issue) and picking it up again a week or so after the birth.

Good luck!

DaveL485

2,633 posts

82 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
DrTre said:
GTO Scott said:
I always said I would do my best for the child if she ever got pregnant and I stand by that. I will not run away, I will give her the best life I can. But I cannot change how I feel, and I will not lie about it.
Genuinely and sincerely be interested to know if/how your feelings change after you become a father.
Same here. I've seen many people with this ethos change opinion in a few short months after birth. Myself included.

GTO Scott

Original Poster:

2,752 posts

109 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
DaveL485 said:
Same here. I've seen many people with this ethos change opinion in a few short months after birth. Myself included.
I really hope that is the case - for sake of the child, my wife and myself.

Pommygranite

5,686 posts

101 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
GTOScott I actually applaud your honesty. You don't sound like you hate your child you're just not that paternal for an as un yet born child. I am with the others in that it will change when the baby is born.

You meet a lot of people who smile through gritted teeth about how the love parenthood because that's what they have to say but you can tell they wish they had their life back - doesn't mean they love their kids any less, just miss the independence.

Doesn't sound like this is a religious issue sounds like your OH got pregnant and you had no say in keep it or not and now she's making decisions for your child without you or regard for your wishes. Not a good start to joint parenting.

TwigtheWonderkid

12,171 posts

35 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
GTO Scott said:
DaveL485 said:
Same here. I've seen many people with this ethos change opinion in a few short months after birth. Myself included.
I really hope that is the case - for sake of the child, my wife and myself.
I'm sure it will. I wasn't anti kids, but I wasn't pro either. When my 1st was due the deal was I'll work hard to provide for it, wife looks after it, and when it's about 5 or 6 I'll start to take an interest. But from the moment he was born I was just besotted. I wouldn't put him down, couldn't wait to get home, bath him, put him to bed etc. Couldn't wait to have a 2nd. I've loved having 2 sons, they'll probably be leaving home soon and whilst I'm please they're growing up into decent independent young men, I'll be gutted when they've gone.

But as for church weddings and christenings, no way on earth would I participate in those. But my wife was perfectly aware of my atheism before we married.

elvismiggell

1,253 posts

36 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
GTO Scott said:
If you care to read back through the last eight pages, you'll find not a single reference from me about the child being 'locked in' to the church once she is baptised. I'm getting tired of being misunderstood, so I'll list my issues with the christening below:
1. The christening is unnecessary at 6 weeks old - apart from a load of bks about it being tradition there is no need.
2. I believe she should have the choice when she is of age - surely if she chooses to follow a life guided by Christianity her baptism is a day she would like to remember and cherish?
3. I was baptised, I am now an atheist. My sister was not, but chose as an adult to believe and be baptised. Therefore there is no reason to believe that early baptism is somehow forcing her to be a Christian.
4. I have issues with dealing with children, but having been told now by everyone that I need to be involved, I need to help guide her, I need to take an interest, I find it somewhat frustrating that the first big decision I try to have some input into seems to require me to shut the fk up and go along with it regardless of how I feel.

In short, why am I bothering to care when it seems like all I'm needed for is money and discipline?
Me again! smile

Whilst it seems laughable to me now, I was Christened / Baptised very young. At 12 I chose to get confirmed. At 18 I chose to have a Baptist baptism.

Now I'm no longer a Christian.

Right the way through (post Christening) I've been able to exercise free choice. Arguably my subsequent confirmation was due to my parents, but then they were both Christians so it's not like I had anyone arguing against it. The Baptism was very much my choice. Stepping away from the Church was also very much my choice.

One of the hardest lessons I've learnt over the years has been to stop trying to second guess what my parents want for me, and to decide to go my own way. (Not just religiously speaking - I did a year of a Law degree because I thought that's what they wanted for me.) Funnily enough, it turned out what they wanted was to see me happy and making my own decisions.

So, in view of my own experiences, here's my responses to your points;

1: It's a load of bks. But there's no harm in it. The compromise I'd suggest you make is that you explain to wifey that because you don't believe in it you're not comfortable being a hypocrite and standing there making those promises, therefore whilst you're happy for her to do it, you're happy to go along on the day and witness it, but you're not going to take the vows.

2: She has the choice. It's your responsibility to make sure that she realises that. Regardless of what magic water and words may have been said when she was little, she has that choice - just do your best to make sure she realises it.

3. Good, so you KNOW it does her no harm, keeps the wife happy and shows you to be reasonable and compromising. [cynical] You never know when you might be glad to be able to trade on this 'sacrifice'. [/cynical]

4. That does suck, but maybe that's the first lesson for you as a Father - that sometimes, no matter what you feel, compromise and reason have to come first.

I should add that whilst I'm not a Father and have no plans to be, at 28 I've seen my brother and a number of friends become Fathers. There seems to be a lot of truth to what a few people have said about men bonding later. In several of these relationships this has caused tension, but they've all worked through it and I don't think any of these chaps regret becoming a Father.

Apologies to those who think I should be much harsher towards OP and telling him to MTFU, I just (personal preference) prefer a softer approach and would rather help him walk through the issues as he describes them. smile

SMGB

786 posts

24 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
GTO Scott said:
I really hope that is the case - for sake of the child, my wife and myself.
I started really liking my kids when they were past the baby stage, one year on maybe. They stop being a big doll that women like to play with, and use as a another tool in the relationship (they cant help that stuff, they are hard wired to do it) . Once you get there you will change your mind. big time.

Oilchange

3,210 posts

145 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
You know that look your dog gives you when you walk in the door, the one that is of unconditional love. Well, when your little girl gives that to you your heart will melt. Utterly.
It will mean so much more because you will have a say in her upbringing, giving her all the good values she needs to survive as a decent person.
She will not need you solely for money and discipline, how astonishingly naiive to think this.
She will need you for so much more and the joy (and pain/annoyance/frustration/worry) in seeing her grow as a person will (I sincerely hope) make you a bigger man than you ever could have imagined.
A lot of men have reservations about bringing a child into the world, if you really felt this way you shouldn't have waited until 30 for the snip.
Now you will enter the most amazing and rewarding time of life. Embrace it or leave your wife now because she (and the unborn child) doesn't need your narrow minded view of children as some kind of unwanted object.
PS
Best of luck and I hope you change your point of view.

GTO Scott said:
DaveL485 said:
Same here. I've seen many people with this ethos change opinion in a few short months after birth. Myself included.
I really hope that is the case - for sake of the child, my wife and myself.

marcosgt

7,550 posts

61 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
vixen1700 said:
GTO Scott said:
I'm too selfish to deal with having a child. A child will get in the way of what I want from life, in terms of where I can go, what I can buy and how I can live. Life was getting close to how I wanted it - own house, wife, and Labrador. Harry (the Labrador) is my substitute for a child - he is my boy, doesn't need clothes (grows his own), doesn't need to go to school, is excited by the prospect of eating left-overs, gives unconditional affection even when he's just had a bking, and wants nothing more complex than a tennis ball to play with.

Children are much more expensive.

As for a non-religious ceremony, she won't have that. Has to be a christening, has to be in a certain church.

We got married at Pendennis Castle - so no religious element in the marriage.
Wow!
Indeed - Clearly doesn't need a child, he is one! biggrin

M.

southendpier

3,511 posts

114 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
I wouldn't have the child Christened either. Your wife knew your views when she agreed to marry you and have kids. Why should an issues that is close to you be compromised so she can
throw a party with a bunch of jesus freaks?





VinceFox

19,119 posts

57 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Out of interest, what will the whole day cost?

NDA

11,311 posts

110 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
OP, it it's of any consolation, I entirely agree with you.

I wasn't christened and neither were my two children.

The fact that God (or any other deity) exists is an unproven adult concept. It's for an adult to choose if they want to be Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or whatever. To 'stamp' a religion on a baby is arrogant and selfish.

I think your Mrs is being a bit blinkered to be honest, whilst my mrs would have gone along with a christening, she accepted the view that both kids can decide when they have all the information they need and can make a conscious decision.

It was only relatively recently that we were worshipping the sun, cats, dogs, stone penis statues and a thousand different gods. Today it happens to be the baby Jebus.

TwigtheWonderkid

12,171 posts

35 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Oilchange said:
you will have a say in her upbringing,
Will he? I thought that's what this post was about.

redgriff500

9,365 posts

148 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
VinceFox said:
Out of interest, what will the whole day cost?
IIRC It's free to join the club.


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