never forget WW2

Author
Discussion

fido

16,752 posts

254 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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^All true, but history did not start in 1945, or even 1914. Bad stuff happened before that. Injustices lead to more injustices, and the cycle continues.

dudleybloke

19,717 posts

185 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Cotty said:
Not the Americans? Cough... Hiroshima and Nagasaki
the one who starts the fight shouldn't go fission for sympathy. smile







Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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wildcat45 said:
Lost soul said:
Lets not forget the terrible things done by USA Russia , and the UK
I assume you think WWII was a just war?

.
Never assume anything

RizzoTheRat

25,083 posts

191 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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wildcat45 said:
I remember my late Dad - 1927 born to technically did national service during the last week of WWII had a varying attitude towards this.

We had a VW for a time in the 1970s - a car certainly built by people who served in WWII. As an evacuee his ship was attacked and sunk by a U boat. He despised a lot for German culture from the time, Nazis killing millions etc - but not German people or their cars.

He blamed the Germans for letting Hitler. get to power, but there was no hatred there.

He would not buy a Japanese car and was intolerant of things Japanese.
My grandfather always hated the Italians for switching sides far more than he hated the Germans who spent the war shooting at him as he was dropping bombs on them.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 17th April 18:13

TwigtheWonderkid

43,246 posts

149 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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wildcat45 said:
Not having a go at you, but could you put forward a way to conclude WWII without dropping nuclear bombs and killing loads of people?
If the Americans hadn't dropped the bomb, we'd probably still be fighting our way thru mainland Japan, street by street, today. Given the fight they put up on a handful of insignificant islands in the months before August 45.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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P-Jay said:
The US can't really be going for the moral high ground?


Victors write the history books.

arn22110

201 posts

193 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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I was lucky enough to go to the commonwealth war cemetery in Yangon... No matter where you go overseas, try and visit one as it is a very moving experience. I believe in Yangon there were 27 thousand souls buried.

Eric Mc

121,773 posts

264 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
I've read quite a few books written by the losers too - and they are often even more interesting.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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wildcat45 said:
Not having a go at you, but could you put forward a way to conclude WWII without dropping nuclear bombs and killing loads of people?

I think by September 1939 any chance of talking it through to sort things out was exhausted
Rock Paper Scissors?

Yeah I know......the bombs were dropped on Japan but you get my point? paperbag

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 17th April 17:31

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Eric Mc said:
I've read quite a few books written by the losers too - and they are often even more interesting.
Ok, let me be more specific.
Victors write the history books which are used in schools as anything else would be (mistakenly) seen as approving of the Nazis/Japs.

wildcat45

8,056 posts

188 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Lost soul said:
Never assume anything
Good advice - as you just proved.

so, do you think WWIi was a just war?

9mm

3,128 posts

209 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Crossflow Kid said:
Eric Mc said:
I've read quite a few books written by the losers too - and they are often even more interesting.
Ok, let me be more specific.
Victors write the history books which are used in schools as anything else would be (mistakenly) seen as approving of the Nazis/Japs.
Not strictly true. Try and find anything about the Rape of Nanking in Japanese textbooks for example.

Anyway, sins of our fathers and all that. I can't dislike or act against someone who wasn't personally involved, unless of course they are a modern day equivalent or supporter of the wrongdoer.

I find all this historical stuff a bit depressing. When are the Irish going to let go of the potato famine, the blacks forgive our (early) role in slavery and muslims draw a line under the crusades?


Eric Mc

121,773 posts

264 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Oy - since the Irish love their spuds, the potato famine is a very sore point.

But, on the whole, I don't think it energises THAT many Irishmen or women these days.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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No way I'm using French letters. That bloody Napoleon made my ancestors eat garlic.

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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Purity14 said:
+1
Jews only drive Volvos.
But not all Volvos are driven by Jews, bearded people drive them too.
I have had three and have the biggest baby face in the world!

/buckingthetrend

DanielSan

18,745 posts

166 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
There's a synagogue quite near me and the side streets on a Saturday are chocca with Volvos (popular with Jews who want a quality car but prefer to avoid German).

The synagogue car park is of course empty because you're not allowed to drive on the Sabbath. hehe
Hypocrisy and Religion, who'd have thought it biggrin

PZR

627 posts

184 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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wildcat45 said:
How long would the war in the East have continued without the use of nuclear weapons? How many more allied troops would have died? How many more Japanese civvies would have been killed in say 5 more years of air raids etc?
Agree with most of what you wrote, but have to ask - why does everyone always point to this question of "how many more allied lives would have been lost?" and the notion of fighting on mainland Japan as being a necessity?

Japan's war was doomed well before Hiroshima and Nagasaki. With Japan surrounded, raw material and fuel supply cut off, invasion was not really necessary. Containment would have sufficed. Japan just would not have been able to carry on. Why did the military and politicians say otherwise?

Of course, I think we know the answer.



PZR

627 posts

184 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
9mm said:
Crossflow Kid said:
Eric Mc said:
I've read quite a few books written by the losers too - and they are often even more interesting.
Ok, let me be more specific.
Victors write the history books which are used in schools as anything else would be (mistakenly) seen as approving of the Nazis/Japs.
Not strictly true. Try and find anything about the Rape of Nanking in Japanese textbooks for example.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but do you have any personal experience of what's in - or what's not in - "Japanese textbooks"?

The fact is that there are even University courses on the wider subject of 'war crimes' and related topics. The academic world in Japan is not controlled by some dark unseen hand, and fierce debate has been raging for many years. You'll probably never get to hear much about it because it's in Japanese...

AlexC1981

4,903 posts

216 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
quotequote all
PZR said:
Agree with most of what you wrote, but have to ask - why does everyone always point to this question of "how many more allied lives would have been lost?" and the notion of fighting on mainland Japan as being a necessity?

Japan's war was doomed well before Hiroshima and Nagasaki. With Japan surrounded, raw material and fuel supply cut off, invasion was not really necessary. Containment would have sufficed. Japan just would not have been able to carry on. Why did the military and politicians say otherwise?

Of course, I think we know the answer.

I'm sure the decision to drop the bombs was not taken lightly. Perhaps if the decision was yours to make in 1945 you would have made the same choice.

PZR

627 posts

184 months

Thursday 17th April 2014
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AlexC1981 said:
PZR said:
Agree with most of what you wrote, but have to ask - why does everyone always point to this question of "how many more allied lives would have been lost?" and the notion of fighting on mainland Japan as being a necessity?

Japan's war was doomed well before Hiroshima and Nagasaki. With Japan surrounded, raw material and fuel supply cut off, invasion was not really necessary. Containment would have sufficed. Japan just would not have been able to carry on. Why did the military and politicians say otherwise?

Of course, I think we know the answer.

I'm sure the decision to drop the bombs was not taken lightly. Perhaps if the decision was yours to make in 1945 you would have made the same choice.
That may well be true, but it doesn't mean the decision would have been the 'right' one.

What's clear - given the great luxury of hindsight - is that the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was about a lot more than forcing Imperial Japan into unconditional surrender.