Babies in the office....

[Vaud]

Some Gump said:

Tyre Tread said:

Possibly, but I doubt it. My wife would have recognised it long ago since she deals with autism as part of her job.

It appears that once again insults have apppeared as the last resort against reasoned argument or different opinion.

I was personally quite impressed by the complete lack of empathy shown in your post, combined with the lack of social skills implied by the witty banter around your 2 V8's, and epic way you managed your team there.

The thing with reasoned arguements in this sort of situation is that there is no point offering you one. Any suggestion that a baby (the most important thing in that mum's life) has more importance to her coworkers than your new V8 is obviously going to fall on deaf ears, because you've already stated that you feel that a human being and one of your posessions hold the same value. Your management anecdote also shows that you've not yet grasped the idea that coworkers do interact, and take an interest in one another - that's why you normally manage "a team" and not "6 bodies".

One could argue that a single 15 minute "this is my baby" is good for morale, and will result in increased net team productivity for the working week. You could argue that bringing the baby to work once helps smooth the transition from maternity to a return to work. The thing is, I'm not sure that these arguements will even make you consider them for a second - you need some degree of empathy to be able to see things from your team member's side, and your post shows that if you do have the ability to do that, you choose not to.

Of course, it now looks like I'm trying to single you out or something - but all the posters who have said guff like "bag of meat" and whatnot - they're either trying to be internet heroes, or they have a wire off somewhere.

Tyre Tread - not sure if your response was aimed at me as I raised autism, but I could not find your post.

It was your total lack of empathy and ability to relate that struck me.

Before I became a father the whole office kid thing was something I played along with - as my colleagues we interested and it seemed like a life chaining thing, but one I had no experience of. So I would ask how the mum&dad were doing, sleep, etc and be interested - because that is what colleagues do. Takes 2 mins and no more. It's part of being in a team. Since being a father I show more interest - because I can relate to it.

No empathy and phrases like "As the manager of a department I did once suggest that a new mother who brought her child in should hand it over to one of the other women and they take it in turn to hold the child while she, the mother who was being paid maternity pay, did some work." only reinforce that you have issues that a wider group might view as not as the normal respect a manager should show.

When you choose to work in a company then you have to follow the norms of an organisation to some extent.

Especially as a manager, where you are supposed to also set a standard.

Phrases like the one you used make you look like you have a massive lack of empathy, even if that is not what you intended. You need to find appropriate humour at work....

[EggsBenedict]

Tyre Tread said:

Once again, insult: The last resort when reasoned argument and discussion fails.

Where?

Tyre Tread said:

You know, thinking about it, it is the parents fault for bringing the 'little bundles of joy' into the office not the child's fault at all.

Just another set of inconsiderate people (aka new parents) who think the mix of their egg and (insert some random guy)'s sperm is worthy of parading in front of colleagues.

It's a fking baby. Its just like any other baby and has no real place in the workplace.

'inconsiderate' - ah the irony. Why don't you consider that (1) It's more than likely the most important event in that person's life, and try and show a little bit of appreciation for that? (2) that usually (perhaps not you), but lots of others have said 'do bring the little one in when you're ready, be lovely to see him/her'. I very much doubt it's an everyday event after all.

And clearly, to the mum and to her friends or colleagues in the office, it's not just a fking baby, so perhaps you could cope with just putting up with it for a little while.

Tyre Tread said:

At least a pet interacts. Even a goldfish reacts when you tap on the bowl. A newborn baby? Just dog food really.

...and some people don't make it past the dog food stage eh?

[toohuge]

Something that does concern me about the whole displaying of children to friends etc. is that it can be a hugely emotionally difficult time for those couples / individuals that are not fortunate enough to have children. There seems to be very little thought put into the parents of the new born when parading around, look at how wonderful this is etc. when there are thousands of adults that do not have the same good fortunate.

I think a little discretion should be shown, as for some not having children is not a choice, it's a way of life and can cause serious emotional distress.

Chris

[Cotty]

Some Gump said:

One could argue that a single 15 minute "this is my baby" is good for morale, and will result in increased net team productivity for the working week.

You could also argue that someone on a years maternity leave decreases the teams productivity for whole year not a week.

How about multiple women taking turns to be on maternity leave for a total of 4 years. Do you think that is good for the moral of the people who have to do their work while they are away?

[toohuge]

Something that does concern me about the whole displaying of children to friends etc. is that it can be a hugely emotionally difficult time for those couples / individuals that are not fortunate enough to have children. There seems to be very little thought put into the parents of the new born when parading around, look at how wonderful this is etc. when there are thousands of adults that do not have the same good fortunate.

I think a little discretion should be shown, as for some not having children is not a choice, it's a way of life and can cause serious emotional distress.

Chris

[Some Gump]

Cotty said:

You could also argue that someone on a years maternity leave decreases the teams productivity for whole year not a week.

How about multiple women taking turns to be on maternity leave for a total of 4 years. Do you think that is good for the moral of the people who have to do their work while they are away?

Dunno chap - i'm guessing that in your example, the effect of multiple maternities within a team will have a vey negative effect on productivity. However, since maternity leave is not only a fact of life but a legal reuirement, i'm going to take on a similar logical outlook as used in the mathematical consideration of probability:

GIVEN that the mother is away on maternity leave for between 6 months and a year as a legal reuirement, I belive that the ability to introduce that kid to friends and co-workers will:
A - bring happyness to the department whilst the person on mat leave is away (and happy people are known to be more productive)
B - reduce the chance of resentment within that team due to absence connected with said "bag of meat"
C - increase the likelyhood that the new mum might feel ready to come back to wrok sooner.

You can argue as much as you want about maternity cover and pay etc - but that was not the initial topic of this thread. I know what it's like to cover a maternity (and see the commission for your sales go to said woman, who happens to be a bh), but the law is the law. Bringing a kid into work or not doesn't change the law, so your arguement is invalid.

[Cotty]

Some Gump said:

Cotty said:

You could also argue that someone on a years maternity leave decreases the teams productivity for whole year not a week.

How about multiple women taking turns to be on maternity leave for a total of 4 years. Do you think that is good for the moral of the people who have to do their work while they are away?

Dunno chap - i'm guessing that in your example, the effect of multiple maternities within a team will have a vey negative effect on productivity. However, since maternity leave is not only a fact of life but a legal reuirement, i'm going to take on a similar logical outlook as used in the mathematical consideration of probability:

GIVEN that the mother is away on maternity leave for between 6 months and a year as a legal reuirement, I belive that the ability to introduce that kid to friends and co-workers will:
A - bring happyness to the department whilst the person on mat leave is away (and happy people are known to be more productive)
B - reduce the chance of resentment within that team due to absence connected with said "bag of meat"
C - increase the likelyhood that the new mum might feel ready to come back to wrok sooner.

You can argue as much as you want about maternity cover and pay etc - but that was not the initial topic of this thread. I know what it's like to cover a maternity (and see the commission for your sales go to said woman, who happens to be a bh), but the law is the law. Bringing a kid into work or not doesn't change the law, so your arguement is invalid.

I was not arguing. But I stand by my comment that someone not working for a year is not being a productive member of a team

A no
B no
C will continue to take 1 year and come back on part time.

Quite simply I have had enough, I accept that companies have a legal requirement to offer up to a year maternity leave and that the mother can opt to come back part time. My response to that is to look for a new job and when that happens it will completely implode the team I work with.

[Vaud]

Cotty said:

I accept that companies have a legal requirement to offer up to a year maternity leave and that the mother can opt to come back part time.

It is a right to apply for the adaptation, it isn't a right for it to be accepted.

[Brigand]

A lass on my shift has recently gone on maternity leave, meaning I'm left to do "mandatory unpaid overtime" covering some of her shifts. If she has the cheek to bring her baby in to swan about the office I shall be a very peeved man under the circumstances!

(That's my bitter ten pence on the matter anyway)

[Impasse]

This thread is on the cusp of someone uttering the immortal: "When you've had children, you'll understand."

[PorkInsider]

Impasse said:

This thread is on the cusp of someone uttering the immortal: "When you've had children, you'll understand."

It's certain to come. It can only be a matter of time...

[BlackST]

I worked along side 2 women once. Could not imagine having to work with them 2 particular women and also a baby

[TwigtheWonderkid]

toohuge said:

Something that does concern me about the whole displaying of children to friends etc. is that it can be a hugely emotionally difficult time for those couples / individuals that are not fortunate enough to have children. There seems to be very little thought put into the parents of the new born when parading around, look at how wonderful this is etc. when there are thousands of adults that do not have the same good fortunate.

I think a little discretion should be shown, as for some not having children is not a choice, it's a way of life and can cause serious emotional distress.

Chris

We were in that position for a long time, although eventually did have children. We always fought against that negative emotion, and took pleasure from other people's joy in pregnancy/children. Why should people suppress their happiness for fear of upsetting someone else less fortunate? It's like saying "I won't drive my new car to work because Fred is going thru a tough time and is having to get the bus.

A woman in our office recent brought in cakes and threw a lunchtime party to thank everyone for their support having been given the all clear from cancer. Perhaps she shouldn't have bothered for fear of upsetting someone who has lost someone to cancer or is still battling cancer.

If I won the lotto, I wouldn't run thru the dole office waving wads of cash about, as that would be crass. But wanting to show off your new baby, that's perfectly natural.

[Blown2CV]

i guess the equivalent is to bring your new V8 into the office and then round up all the guys to admire it and have a go and then talk loudly about it and do no work for 45 mins.