Match.com (Volume 6)
Discussion
Bluesgirl said:
Can I ask why you felt this?
I met someone a few months ago. We really hit it off when we met, a few drinks turned into dinner and several hours of chatting, laughing... For a first date it couldn't have been better. But our respective situations, financially, were very different. We texted afterwards, but the second date never materialised. Of course I could have read it all wrong, but I think that's what put him off.
Is it really that big a deal?
The fact that you know that your financial situations are different after a first date says something about what it means to you. You could well be describing a date I went on actually, for me though it was not the fact that she out earnt me, there was just as few too many years age gap and in the time we didn't get a second date organised I went on another date or two.... Which didn't go any where and then it seemed too long to get back in contact.I met someone a few months ago. We really hit it off when we met, a few drinks turned into dinner and several hours of chatting, laughing... For a first date it couldn't have been better. But our respective situations, financially, were very different. We texted afterwards, but the second date never materialised. Of course I could have read it all wrong, but I think that's what put him off.
Is it really that big a deal?
You don't have scale steam traction engines do you?
Sadly, no. Just scalextric and meccano in the loft.
When you're discussing interests etc on a date, inevitably you'll realise if your situations are different, ie holiday in California vs no holiday for 3 years; where you live, who you live with etc. It doesn't mean it matters tho', does it?
When you're discussing interests etc on a date, inevitably you'll realise if your situations are different, ie holiday in California vs no holiday for 3 years; where you live, who you live with etc. It doesn't mean it matters tho', does it?
Whilst differing incomes or 'social class' might be something to consider, I fail to see why it's a deal breaker. If someone with more money is prepared to date you then what's the issue? Surely it's the person that matters. Someone refusing to have a relationship with another because they have more money is a IMHO as bad as if it was because they had a lot less money. It's just as superficial and as much of a shame.
Blown2CV said:
Whilst differing incomes or 'social class' might be something to consider, I fail to see why it's a deal breaker. If someone with more money is prepared to date you then what's the issue? Surely it's the person that matters. Someone refusing to have a relationship with another because they have more money is a IMHO as bad as if it was because they had a lot less money. It's just as superficial and as much of a shame.
In a perfect world it doesn't matter. In reality it can get in the way. It often means one of you is going to have to change your outlook / attitude straight away.
Either the poorer of the two spends too much trying to keep up with the norms of the richer. Or the richer has to start regularly enjoying aldi pasta bake.
I'm not saying it's not possible, it is. But right from the off its a hurdle. And those who have experience of it avoid treading the same boards twice.
A friend of mine dated at a 'different level'. He liked her a lot but she had no disposable money. He didn't want to stop enjoying himself in the way he was used to, so he basically paid her way on weekends away, skiing, doing sky dives etc. When he went to see her they would have nice nights in and walks in the park.
After a year or so he said it was starting to become a strain. He'd subtly mention that weekends at hers were a bit 'repetitive and we just do the same stuff and then watch TV'. Plus he was always a bit short as everything fun he liked doing 'now costs double'...
He now dates a woman in his industry, they always seem to be off doing stuff and generally he seems a happy guy.
So just one example I guess.
The opposite is of course princess Fiona. She gave up the glamour of royalty to live with shrek in the swamp.
So it just goes to show.
Money is a big issue for some people. Vacuous that it makes them unfortunately.
I was seeing a Swedish girl for a while, was quite serious & i knew she earned on a par with me, but she was also getting yearly & quarterly bonuses.....the yearly one equating to 48% of her annual sallary. Which was a lot of bunce. I hadn't had a bonus in years due to the recession & she couldn't understand that, plus when it became obvious that my assets were way less than hers ( a divorce & a liking for fast cars meant the few k i had put aside paled next to her stash), he interest waned in weeks. It was blatant. She was also a collosal snob, which i found a common trait within her social circle of ex pat Swedes in that particular part of the UK. While us normals were more than happy to shop in stores like Aldi, Asda, Tesco etc.....for that lot only the likes of Waitrose, Booths, Arighi Bianchi (s
te place) & those incredibly overpriced refurbished tat that we had all binned years ago......the shabby chic st they loved & would pay £500 for a repainted 'quaint' dresser.
Edit to add, also an anti-Semite too.
I was seeing a Swedish girl for a while, was quite serious & i knew she earned on a par with me, but she was also getting yearly & quarterly bonuses.....the yearly one equating to 48% of her annual sallary. Which was a lot of bunce. I hadn't had a bonus in years due to the recession & she couldn't understand that, plus when it became obvious that my assets were way less than hers ( a divorce & a liking for fast cars meant the few k i had put aside paled next to her stash), he interest waned in weeks. It was blatant. She was also a collosal snob, which i found a common trait within her social circle of ex pat Swedes in that particular part of the UK. While us normals were more than happy to shop in stores like Aldi, Asda, Tesco etc.....for that lot only the likes of Waitrose, Booths, Arighi Bianchi (s
te place) & those incredibly overpriced refurbished tat that we had all binned years ago......the shabby chic st they loved & would pay £500 for a repainted 'quaint' dresser. Edit to add, also an anti-Semite too.
Bluesgirl said:
Morningside said:
I did meet one very nice lady and we messaged and chatted quite a few times and had a laugh and then we met...oh dear, she was clearly a totally different class above me and it was never ever going to work.
Can I ask why you felt this? I met someone a few months ago. We really hit it off when we met, a few drinks turned into dinner and several hours of chatting, laughing... For a first date it couldn't have been better. But our respective situations, financially, were very different. We texted afterwards, but the second date never materialised. Of course I could have read it all wrong, but I think that's what put him off.
Is it really that big a deal?
But I found with the woman I met that she was more 'stuffy' (is that right?) with very little silly humour and I think that would have stifled any long term fun. It was clear that she was working for fun ie making some flower arrangement and the house she owned was at least 2-3 million (Daily Mail).
Shame as we both enjoyed a lot in common and chatted for hours on the phone and messaged each other for ages. She was also quite an attractive woman but I felt like I was in her shadow. No we are not talking size before anyone starts!
Added: So no, is the short answer it's not the money to me its just a feeling. Both the woman I met are equal I should say in monitory values. It's just my partner doesn't ever make an issue of it.
When I moved in I made it VERY clear that I am in no way interested in any money or property that she owns and amend her will accordingly so that I do not in any way gain anything whatsoever.
Edited by Morningside on Friday 18th November 09:39
I'd hoped that 'social class' was something that had been consigned to the last century.
Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
I once went on a few dates with a really nice girl, single Mum with a 2 year old, part time job and lived in a small flat in the next town from me.
Our lives were really different. I owned my own 3 bed house, leased a brand new car, took holidays whenever I fancied and mostly wherever I wanted. Things that motivated me were working hard to afford a lifestyle that involved travel, cars and photography.
Her life was plate spinning with a small child, a job and the ex (father to the child) and trying to keep a house together. The money went on basics such as rent, food, keeping an old Fiesta on the road and there wasnt really time or money to go out. Our first date was dinner at a nice restaurant. It was noticeable that this wasnt a regular thing for her, not that it bothered me or had a judgment either way on it, but she did. She felt uncomfortable. So we left. Headed out to the chippy instead.
When we talked about our days, mine was desk flying and doing deals. Hers was whether her kid was ill or not and if she had to leave work early whether they'd understand, why there was crayon on the walls, whether she had enough time to have a bath in peace and if Aldi had a special on. Because life just kept moving, hers was very local to her. Immediate friends and family in a small town.
Holidays werent really something she did other than with her now-ex taking a week in Spain when they were together, or the girls weekend in Magaluf/wherever. After kid came along, no money, lot of hassle, wont really get any enjoyment from it. Basically the same life as at home, just probably somewhere warmer. Or colder, because having a child, you cant really sit in the sun all day at 40 degrees drinking cocktails by the pool. Likely it'd be in an air conditioned hotel room dealing with a puke problem from drinking tap water.
We were attracted to each other, but our lifestyles werent really compatible, there was too much of a difference to change either and find any kind of new path. I could see it, she could see it. Just headed in different directions. I probably couldnt have settled in to small town life - still wanted to travel, see new things/places and have my eyes opened. She'd given up on that, because it was going to be hard to get anywhere and have any kind of Me Time.
I can understand why some people think it's about money, but it's not really that - it's how you want to live your life with someone else being a part of it. I'm sure, had things worked out with the girl I'm talking about, money would have come into it then because there was a noticeable gap and two people coming together having lived different lives based around that are probably going to struggle to find a way to work it without one side thinking they should pull more weight
Our lives were really different. I owned my own 3 bed house, leased a brand new car, took holidays whenever I fancied and mostly wherever I wanted. Things that motivated me were working hard to afford a lifestyle that involved travel, cars and photography.
Her life was plate spinning with a small child, a job and the ex (father to the child) and trying to keep a house together. The money went on basics such as rent, food, keeping an old Fiesta on the road and there wasnt really time or money to go out. Our first date was dinner at a nice restaurant. It was noticeable that this wasnt a regular thing for her, not that it bothered me or had a judgment either way on it, but she did. She felt uncomfortable. So we left. Headed out to the chippy instead.
When we talked about our days, mine was desk flying and doing deals. Hers was whether her kid was ill or not and if she had to leave work early whether they'd understand, why there was crayon on the walls, whether she had enough time to have a bath in peace and if Aldi had a special on. Because life just kept moving, hers was very local to her. Immediate friends and family in a small town.
Holidays werent really something she did other than with her now-ex taking a week in Spain when they were together, or the girls weekend in Magaluf/wherever. After kid came along, no money, lot of hassle, wont really get any enjoyment from it. Basically the same life as at home, just probably somewhere warmer. Or colder, because having a child, you cant really sit in the sun all day at 40 degrees drinking cocktails by the pool. Likely it'd be in an air conditioned hotel room dealing with a puke problem from drinking tap water.
We were attracted to each other, but our lifestyles werent really compatible, there was too much of a difference to change either and find any kind of new path. I could see it, she could see it. Just headed in different directions. I probably couldnt have settled in to small town life - still wanted to travel, see new things/places and have my eyes opened. She'd given up on that, because it was going to be hard to get anywhere and have any kind of Me Time.
I can understand why some people think it's about money, but it's not really that - it's how you want to live your life with someone else being a part of it. I'm sure, had things worked out with the girl I'm talking about, money would have come into it then because there was a noticeable gap and two people coming together having lived different lives based around that are probably going to struggle to find a way to work it without one side thinking they should pull more weight
Bluesgirl said:
I'd hoped that 'social class' was something that had been consigned to the last century.
Maybe I put it wrong. But it was clear that the first woman was almost forcing her value and class (sorry, I used it again!) whereas my partner does not. Yes, we both clearly come from a different life background with her working in the bank/financial world and there is little me who would happily work crawling under a table installing a computer cable.Oddly, the person she was with before me did have money but she said that he was very anti social and always thought he was better than anyone else and talked to people who he thought were 'lower' than him like crap. Where she said that I treat people like humans. So maybe it is attitude?
Bluesgirl said:
I'd hoped that 'social class' was something that had been consigned to the last century.
Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
That's (sadly) very wishful thinking. There's as many people who feel they should be doing the providing, as there are people who feel they should be provided-for.Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
It is somewhat emasculating to be comprehensively out-earned. Not that I personally would mind. I'd love it.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Friday 18th November 09:52
SpeckledJim said:
Bluesgirl said:
I'd hoped that 'social class' was something that had been consigned to the last century.
Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
That's (sadly) very wishful thinking. There's as many people who feel they should be doing the providing, as there are people who feel they should be provided-for.Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
It is somewhat emasculating to be comprehensively out-earned. Not that I personally would mind. I'd love it.
andy-xr said:
I once went on a few dates with a really nice girl, single Mum with a 2 year old, part time job and lived in a small flat in the next town from me.
Our lives were really different. I owned my own 3 bed house, leased a brand new car, took holidays whenever I fancied and mostly wherever I wanted. Things that motivated me were working hard to afford a lifestyle that involved travel, cars and photography.
Her life was plate spinning with a small child, a job and the ex (father to the child) and trying to keep a house together. The money went on basics such as rent, food, keeping an old Fiesta on the road and there wasnt really time or money to go out. Our first date was dinner at a nice restaurant. It was noticeable that this wasnt a regular thing for her, not that it bothered me or had a judgment either way on it, but she did. She felt uncomfortable. So we left. Headed out to the chippy instead.
When we talked about our days, mine was desk flying and doing deals. Hers was whether her kid was ill or not and if she had to leave work early whether they'd understand, why there was crayon on the walls, whether she had enough time to have a bath in peace and if Aldi had a special on. Because life just kept moving, hers was very local to her. Immediate friends and family in a small town.
Holidays werent really something she did other than with her now-ex taking a week in Spain when they were together, or the girls weekend in Magaluf/wherever. After kid came along, no money, lot of hassle, wont really get any enjoyment from it. Basically the same life as at home, just probably somewhere warmer. Or colder, because having a child, you cant really sit in the sun all day at 40 degrees drinking cocktails by the pool. Likely it'd be in an air conditioned hotel room dealing with a puke problem from drinking tap water.
We were attracted to each other, but our lifestyles werent really compatible, there was too much of a difference to change either and find any kind of new path. I could see it, she could see it. Just headed in different directions. I probably couldnt have settled in to small town life - still wanted to travel, see new things/places and have my eyes opened. She'd given up on that, because it was going to be hard to get anywhere and have any kind of Me Time.
I can understand why some people think it's about money, but it's not really that - it's how you want to live your life with someone else being a part of it. I'm sure, had things worked out with the girl I'm talking about, money would have come into it then because there was a noticeable gap and two people coming together having lived different lives based around that are probably going to struggle to find a way to work it without one side thinking they should pull more weight
This sums it up for me.Our lives were really different. I owned my own 3 bed house, leased a brand new car, took holidays whenever I fancied and mostly wherever I wanted. Things that motivated me were working hard to afford a lifestyle that involved travel, cars and photography.
Her life was plate spinning with a small child, a job and the ex (father to the child) and trying to keep a house together. The money went on basics such as rent, food, keeping an old Fiesta on the road and there wasnt really time or money to go out. Our first date was dinner at a nice restaurant. It was noticeable that this wasnt a regular thing for her, not that it bothered me or had a judgment either way on it, but she did. She felt uncomfortable. So we left. Headed out to the chippy instead.
When we talked about our days, mine was desk flying and doing deals. Hers was whether her kid was ill or not and if she had to leave work early whether they'd understand, why there was crayon on the walls, whether she had enough time to have a bath in peace and if Aldi had a special on. Because life just kept moving, hers was very local to her. Immediate friends and family in a small town.
Holidays werent really something she did other than with her now-ex taking a week in Spain when they were together, or the girls weekend in Magaluf/wherever. After kid came along, no money, lot of hassle, wont really get any enjoyment from it. Basically the same life as at home, just probably somewhere warmer. Or colder, because having a child, you cant really sit in the sun all day at 40 degrees drinking cocktails by the pool. Likely it'd be in an air conditioned hotel room dealing with a puke problem from drinking tap water.
We were attracted to each other, but our lifestyles werent really compatible, there was too much of a difference to change either and find any kind of new path. I could see it, she could see it. Just headed in different directions. I probably couldnt have settled in to small town life - still wanted to travel, see new things/places and have my eyes opened. She'd given up on that, because it was going to be hard to get anywhere and have any kind of Me Time.
I can understand why some people think it's about money, but it's not really that - it's how you want to live your life with someone else being a part of it. I'm sure, had things worked out with the girl I'm talking about, money would have come into it then because there was a noticeable gap and two people coming together having lived different lives based around that are probably going to struggle to find a way to work it without one side thinking they should pull more weight
Your lifestyle, hobbies, interests are largely driven by upbringing and to some extent social standing then intermingles with finances more often than not. Add to that aspirations for the future which often share a correlation. I think mismatching that makes it hard to share common ground, or that is certainly the way I have found it.
I've never dated princesses, I never particularly attracted them either, usually they've been independent stand-on-own-two-feet people. I'm married with a kid now anyway, but if I was going into a relationship where there was a large money gap, and it affected lifestyle choices, I'd think one side would feel a bit suffocated if the other always wanted to do 'stuff' even if they were paying.
I think there's a guilt that would come from eg the other half saying 'Let's do a California road trip, I've got £10k to throw at it, I earn loads' and the other half's got basically next month's mortgage and food covered but that's about it. The guilt/pride/whatever that the 'lesser earner' would feel from that would make a dent in a relationship because they want their own independence. To feel that they're bringing equal value to the relationship and the things you do. Maybe where one would drag the other down in where they go/what they do, though 'drag down' isnt quite the phrase I'm looking for.
I think there's a guilt that would come from eg the other half saying 'Let's do a California road trip, I've got £10k to throw at it, I earn loads' and the other half's got basically next month's mortgage and food covered but that's about it. The guilt/pride/whatever that the 'lesser earner' would feel from that would make a dent in a relationship because they want their own independence. To feel that they're bringing equal value to the relationship and the things you do. Maybe where one would drag the other down in where they go/what they do, though 'drag down' isnt quite the phrase I'm looking for.
Edited by andy-xr on Friday 18th November 12:49
Bluesgirl said:
I'd hoped that 'social class' was something that had been consigned to the last century.
Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
is it indicative of the age of the person?Surely these days, with all the access to free education, shared childcare etc, women's career opportunities might ensure that it doesn't matter who earns more, it's the accompanying attitude that matters. I'm not interested in treats or expensive gifts and I don't want to be treated like a princess (something which a number of matches have indicated seems to be their goal). If I want something, I can buy it myself and I'm happy to pay my way and/or pick up the tab as and when.
Makes me wonder if this independence is intimidating?
ETA an occasional box of lindors wont go amiss tho'.
I have found it a little difficult being quite a high earner for my age, because most girls my age seem to earn a quarter of what I do. It doesn't bother me and I couldn't care less what someone earns, but it can be a little disappointing when if you want to do something 'nice' you have to pay twice, or not do those things at all. Things like parking a mile away from town just to get free parking really get on my tits though - I can't remember ever doing anything like that when I was skint, but then I'm terrible with money, maybe i should be a bit more careful with the little things.
The girl I've been seeing recently (from tinder) works in a nursery. It's getting more serious with her now and the gap in earnings doesn't bother me at all. I've let her pay a couple of times, it works quite well if I pay for the more expensive stuff and she treats me to some cheaper things I.e. I'll take us out for dinner and she will take me out for breakfast, or I pay for an evening out, she will bring some food round with a DVD and cook.
I think it's more to do with how suitable you are for each other as people than how much you earn and spend. Christmas will be a tricky one though because I want to buy her a couple of nice presents but don't want her feeling like she has to spend a lot on me!
The girl I've been seeing recently (from tinder) works in a nursery. It's getting more serious with her now and the gap in earnings doesn't bother me at all. I've let her pay a couple of times, it works quite well if I pay for the more expensive stuff and she treats me to some cheaper things I.e. I'll take us out for dinner and she will take me out for breakfast, or I pay for an evening out, she will bring some food round with a DVD and cook.
I think it's more to do with how suitable you are for each other as people than how much you earn and spend. Christmas will be a tricky one though because I want to buy her a couple of nice presents but don't want her feeling like she has to spend a lot on me!
Andy's post, above, suggests that age isn't a factor. He was high earning while the gf, who presumably was 20's or 30's had a young child to consider and, accordingly, a lower income from part-time work.
So the conclusion is that the 'field' is more limited and I should be looking at the status of a match in addition to all the other factors - something I never thought I'd do.
So the conclusion is that the 'field' is more limited and I should be looking at the status of a match in addition to all the other factors - something I never thought I'd do.
CX53 said:
I have found it a little difficult being quite a high earner for my age, because most girls my age seem to earn a quarter of what I do. It doesn't bother me and I couldn't care less what someone earns, but it can be a little disappointing when if you want to do something 'nice' you have to pay twice, or not do those things at all. Things like parking a mile away from town just to get free parking really get on my tits though - I can't remember ever doing anything like that when I was skint, but then I'm terrible with money, maybe i should be a bit more careful with the little things.
The girl I've been seeing recently (from tinder) works in a nursery. It's getting more serious with her now and the gap in earnings doesn't bother me at all. I've let her pay a couple of times, it works quite well if I pay for the more expensive stuff and she treats me to some cheaper things I.e. I'll take us out for dinner and she will take me out for breakfast, or I pay for an evening out, she will bring some food round with a DVD and cook.
I think it's more to do with how suitable you are for each other as people than how much you earn and spend. Christmas will be a tricky one though because I want to buy her a couple of nice presents but don't want her feeling like she has to spend a lot on me!
be careful with that one. You'll either embarrass her, and she'll feel trapped into spending a lot on you, which she will rightly resent. Or you're teaching her that you're the generous fool who will spoil her forever! The girl I've been seeing recently (from tinder) works in a nursery. It's getting more serious with her now and the gap in earnings doesn't bother me at all. I've let her pay a couple of times, it works quite well if I pay for the more expensive stuff and she treats me to some cheaper things I.e. I'll take us out for dinner and she will take me out for breakfast, or I pay for an evening out, she will bring some food round with a DVD and cook.
I think it's more to do with how suitable you are for each other as people than how much you earn and spend. Christmas will be a tricky one though because I want to buy her a couple of nice presents but don't want her feeling like she has to spend a lot on me!
Better to keep things reasonable and be teased for being tight. At least that doesn't lead to structural relationship doom.
Bluesgirl said:
Andy's post, above, suggests that age isn't a factor. He was high earning while the gf, who presumably was 20's or 30's had a young child to consider and, accordingly, a lower income from part-time work.
So the conclusion is that the 'field' is more limited and I should be looking at the status of a match in addition to all the other factors - something I never thought I'd do.
If you base your dating expectations and/or outlook on relationships based on the experiences and opinions of the people in this thread then you're going to have a bad time.So the conclusion is that the 'field' is more limited and I should be looking at the status of a match in addition to all the other factors - something I never thought I'd do.
Find someone who 'works' for you and you them. Sod everything else.
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