How much do you need to earn to live in London?
Discussion
BJG1 said:
BrabusMog said:
How much do you take home on £25k? £1700 pcm?
Lets assume shared accommodation in Zone 2, so these costs are for one persons share - £750pcm rental, £55 council tax, £805. Tube £120pcm, £925. Rainy day fund £200pcm, £1125. Food £200pcm, £1325. So that leaves you with £375 to tax, insure and run a car. All with no entertainment budget? f
k that unless, like iphonedyou, you are just starting out, have some cash behind you and know that your salary will increase rapidly.
Edit - these figures don't even include Student Loan deductions which must be around £70pcm? So potentially only £305 left to play with?
Well you don't have a £200 a month rainy-day fund, simple as that! Can also spend less than £750 on rent and bills if you really want to, more like £600 but it still doesn't leave enough to run a decent motor if you're in your 20s. Insuring a car in London is a lot of money.Lets assume shared accommodation in Zone 2, so these costs are for one persons share - £750pcm rental, £55 council tax, £805. Tube £120pcm, £925. Rainy day fund £200pcm, £1125. Food £200pcm, £1325. So that leaves you with £375 to tax, insure and run a car. All with no entertainment budget? f
k that unless, like iphonedyou, you are just starting out, have some cash behind you and know that your salary will increase rapidly. Edit - these figures don't even include Student Loan deductions which must be around £70pcm? So potentially only £305 left to play with?
Edited by BrabusMog on Thursday 21st August 10:15
It can be an insane amount of money for insurance.Basically £25k living anywhere in say zones 1-4 is probably impossible id say. Unless you literally want to live on beans on toast but thats no life and not worth living in London for.
I would say £50k for someone by themselves is just about comfortable renting a tiny flat or a room. Its a nice round £3k-ish a month; say £2.5k for bills and living/travel expenses leaves £500 for 'stuff'.
KFC said:
I think its extremely optimistic to assume anyone on 25 grand in London would be able to put away £200 a month for a rainy day fund!
Agreed, I know people in cheaper areas earning more money that don't do that, the era of easy credit has a lot to answer for.fido said:
iphonedyou said:
I went to a Nando's for the first time a couple weeks back. Cost a lot for what's bordering on self-service, with incredibly small portions. Don't think I'll go back.
Nandos - i've always found it incredibly bad value, but it suits some people. I'd rather go to Waitrose and buy a hot roasted chicken etc. Or one of the numerous buffet places around Leicester Square.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
RizzoTheRat said:
KFC said:
I think its extremely optimistic to assume anyone on 25 grand in London would be able to put away £200 a month for a rainy day fund!
Agreed, I know people in cheaper areas earning more money that don't do that, the era of easy credit has a lot to answer for.BrabusMog said:
RizzoTheRat said:
KFC said:
I think its extremely optimistic to assume anyone on 25 grand in London would be able to put away £200 a month for a rainy day fund!
Agreed, I know people in cheaper areas earning more money that don't do that, the era of easy credit has a lot to answer for.They think they must keep up the appearance of being successful, like many of those that burn through credit cards needing the latest designer items... I find it incredible that some people think its fine to owe tens of thousands on credit cards and then just simple shove their head up their own ass and not pay, hoping it will all be ok.
In some extreme circumstances I have seen them go bankrupt just to get out of the debt, as they have no intention of every buying property, etc... then they think its fine to start all again and get another couple of credit cards, always paying one off against another to build up credit.
I have a very good friend who often comes to me at the end of the month to borrow cash, and has done for years. He's gone from earning around £25k to over £60k (estimation based on job location and title) and he still needs to borrow most months. I have thought about sitting him down and saying I won't do it anymore to see if it will change his spending habits but then I'd worry he'd go down the Wonga route. Luckily he always pays all the bills and it's never for food, so he's not too irresponsible I guess but he always starts the next month £100-£150 short of where he should be.
Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
BrabusMog said:
I have a very good friend who often comes to me at the end of the month to borrow cash, and has done for years. He's gone from earning around £25k to over £60k (estimation based on job location and title) and he still needs to borrow most months. I have thought about sitting him down and saying I won't do it anymore to see if it will change his spending habits but then I'd worry he'd go down the Wonga route. Luckily he always pays all the bills and it's never for food, so he's not too irresponsible I guess but he always starts the next month £100-£150 short of where he should be.
Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
That's just nuts! I remember the early days of my career when I usually dropped into overdraft at the end of the month, but I'd never borrow from friends and stopped needing the overdraft when I started to earn reasonable money.Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
As has been shown in this thread, £60k is by no means a generous wage when living in London, but surely one that you could adjust your lifestyle enough to make it work?
My mrs borrowed off me right until she hit £60-70k. No idea of the value of money, or what is worth spending on and what is not. Thankfully these days much better, but even still, some peoples attitude to what is an acceptable amount of money to have in your current account should you need it is VERY different. I am of the opinion that you never know when a rogue bill is going to come along, at the very least keep a few hundred just to cover yourself. I was often aghast by her thinking it was acceptable to have £100 left with 10 days to go until pay day because "I don't need to pay for anything else" yet month after month something came up that needed money 
kingston12 said:
As has been shown in this thread, £60k is by no means a generous wage when living in London, but surely one that you could adjust your lifestyle enough to make it work?
Comes back to the difference in expectations of standard of living. I'm sure there's people living in London on <60k reckoning their doing fine, and people on a lot more moaning that they can't afford to do the things they want to. It seems like the main difference is the cost of accommodation so it'd be fairly easy to work out how much more an individual living somewhere else would need to be earning if they moved there.Quite a few organisations take "London weightings" in to account on national pay scales, for example the NHS pay 20% more for working in inner London, I'd hope they've done their sums as that presumably should equate to the cost difference of living in London (or a bit further out and commuting)
kingston12 said:
BrabusMog said:
I have a very good friend who often comes to me at the end of the month to borrow cash, and has done for years. He's gone from earning around £25k to over £60k (estimation based on job location and title) and he still needs to borrow most months. I have thought about sitting him down and saying I won't do it anymore to see if it will change his spending habits but then I'd worry he'd go down the Wonga route. Luckily he always pays all the bills and it's never for food, so he's not too irresponsible I guess but he always starts the next month £100-£150 short of where he should be.
Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
That's just nuts! I remember the early days of my career when I usually dropped into overdraft at the end of the month, but I'd never borrow from friends and stopped needing the overdraft when I started to earn reasonable money.Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
As has been shown in this thread, £60k is by no means a generous wage when living in London, but surely one that you could adjust your lifestyle enough to make it work?
Not everyone thinks that just because they live in London a meal out should be Roku several times a month, or that they must spend hundreds each month on clothes/entertaining/crap... If they are outside of London there is a lot less temptation to blow it all and you still have lots of fun, inside of London people just go crazy.
BrabusMog said:
My mistake! Lets assume it's a modern flat, so electricity and water. What's that? Another £50-£75? Phone another £40ish, broadband/line rental £15 (shared cost) so we are at £105-£130. No chance anyone is running a car on that, let alone having that good a life! I guess you could take a massive risk and not have a rainy day fund, but I would be massively uncomfortable with that.
You make a good point, certain industries will only pay out the best salaries in London, so if you want to reach your highest earning potential you're best off taking a risk and getting in at the bottom in the best place.
Your figures are very close to the mark (apart from a rainy day fund - no chance!)You make a good point, certain industries will only pay out the best salaries in London, so if you want to reach your highest earning potential you're best off taking a risk and getting in at the bottom in the best place.
It's fair to say it's 'doable' - just - for a short time only and with contingency savings (if you're living on beans and toast - or savings you're happy to dip into, like I was).
It's worth doing for many young graduates for a few reasons:
- Salaries increase almost logarathmically in some industries within your first 3 to 5 years
- London is where a) the training is and b) the companies that'll fork out a fortune for your training are
- It's temporary. I'll transfer back and minimise the salary loss as much as possible once I've got what I need. Do love it here, though.
Edited by iphonedyou on Thursday 21st August 12:32
iphonedyou said:
lukefreeman said:
What's Nandos like in LDN, expensive or same price as rest of UK?
I could eat there everynight if I had to.
Really? I went to a Nando's for the first time a couple weeks back. Cost a lot for what's bordering on self-service, with incredibly small portions. Don't think I'll go back.I could eat there everynight if I had to.
Maybe in LDN they charge same price, but smaller portions to make more profit, I don't know.
kingston12 said:
A lot of the affordability depends on property. If you bought a house in Clapham or Islington 20 years ago for peanuts you can afford to live in London now on a relatively small salary. If you are a first time buyer looking to buy one now, you would need a massive salary.
This sums it up perfectly..Even 15yrs ago, we bought our first place in Walthamstow for just over £50k when the market started to recover from the mid 90's, and you can put a 3 in front of that now.
It's not just first time buyers being priced out of London, it can be those needing a bigger place, etc.
I moved up to London in 1992 just as the recession bit, I took a job earning the princely sum of £9K pa, I had only enough money to afford a flat share in Kilburn. I think I gave up my car for the first couple of years as I really couldn't afford it, shopping for food was done on the basis of grabbing a basket and then stopping when it 'felt' like I had spent £20 ( yes, things would go back on the shelf if I was over). Travel was a tube pass, and the occasional train fare home, I didn't take taxis at all either, walking is a healthy and cheap alternative. I started earning better money so got a better class of flop, eventually getting a car back after a couple of years. I ended up buying a house in an up and coming area, as that's what I could afford, thankfully I was also promoted at work, so I was always living within my means(ha! Who does that anymore??).
Du1point8 said:
kingston12 said:
BrabusMog said:
I have a very good friend who often comes to me at the end of the month to borrow cash, and has done for years. He's gone from earning around £25k to over £60k (estimation based on job location and title) and he still needs to borrow most months. I have thought about sitting him down and saying I won't do it anymore to see if it will change his spending habits but then I'd worry he'd go down the Wonga route. Luckily he always pays all the bills and it's never for food, so he's not too irresponsible I guess but he always starts the next month £100-£150 short of where he should be.
Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
That's just nuts! I remember the early days of my career when I usually dropped into overdraft at the end of the month, but I'd never borrow from friends and stopped needing the overdraft when I started to earn reasonable money.Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
As has been shown in this thread, £60k is by no means a generous wage when living in London, but surely one that you could adjust your lifestyle enough to make it work?
Not everyone thinks that just because they live in London a meal out should be Roku several times a month, or that they must spend hundreds each month on clothes/entertaining/crap... If they are outside of London there is a lot less temptation to blow it all and you still have lots of fun, inside of London people just go crazy.
Du1point8 said:
kingston12 said:
BrabusMog said:
I have a very good friend who often comes to me at the end of the month to borrow cash, and has done for years. He's gone from earning around £25k to over £60k (estimation based on job location and title) and he still needs to borrow most months. I have thought about sitting him down and saying I won't do it anymore to see if it will change his spending habits but then I'd worry he'd go down the Wonga route. Luckily he always pays all the bills and it's never for food, so he's not too irresponsible I guess but he always starts the next month £100-£150 short of where he should be.
Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
That's just nuts! I remember the early days of my career when I usually dropped into overdraft at the end of the month, but I'd never borrow from friends and stopped needing the overdraft when I started to earn reasonable money.Given your example that traders on north of £100k are skint before payday just serves to highlight that some people don't have the discipline to control their spending.
As has been shown in this thread, £60k is by no means a generous wage when living in London, but surely one that you could adjust your lifestyle enough to make it work?
Not everyone thinks that just because they live in London a meal out should be Roku several times a month, or that they must spend hundreds each month on clothes/entertaining/crap... If they are outside of London there is a lot less temptation to blow it all and you still have lots of fun, inside of London people just go crazy.
Or you could go to the Chiltern Street Bus Station or "Tea" by Heston Blumenthal ;-)
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