Bradford- lost for words

Bradford- lost for words

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Leicesterdave

Original Poster:

2,282 posts

179 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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TheRealFingers99 said:
I'd guess that most of Bradford's Asians were born here.
Oh definitely. They are british but only by default. The vast majority don't want to integrate and it shows. The 1st generation who came here did try but this fizzled out a long time ago.

The feeling I got when walking around town was that I just didn't belong in Bradford, which I find hilarious!

The Moose

22,821 posts

208 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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They don't call it Bradistan for nothing wink

TheRealFingers99

1,996 posts

127 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Leicesterdave said:
The feeling I got when walking around town was that I just didn't belong in Bradford, which I find hilarious!
Don't worry: Nigel Farage feels the same when he gets on a train (wonder how he feels on a bus?).

On a 20 minute walk here, in sunny South Liverpool, I will meet, on an average day, black and white Scousers who have been here since ships had sails, Chinese, Iranians, Poles, Romanians, Roma from at least 3 other countries, Czechs, Slovaks, Latvians, Lithuanians, Syrians, Egyptians, Moroccans, Algerians, Kurds, Libyans, Lebanese, Somalis, Ethiopians, Eretraians, Nigerians, Indians and Pakistanis. I feel pretty safe and secure here.

I go to predominantly white North Liverpool and I'm frequently scared stless by the squalor and violence.

Yet when I went to school (not in Liverpool) there was one half Indian guy there.

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Leicesterdave said:
Oh definitely. They are british but only by default. The vast majority don't want to integrate and it shows. The 1st generation who came here did try but this fizzled out a long time ago.

The feeling I got when walking around town was that I just didn't belong in Bradford, which I find hilarious!
They're British because they're British (as British as you or I). Integration is a two way street, and there's nothing in your posts here to suggest you want to integrate with another culture (the impression is that your version of integration is they adopt your ways).

The reason Bradford centre feels so Asian is that most of the predominantly Asian areas are in close proximity to it, where housing has traditionally been cheaper. It is the Asians and their entrepreneurial culture that has kept Bradford centre going whilst it has been in limbo.

Again, contrary to what might be inferred from yours and others' posts here, the reasons for Bradford CBDs decline are not due to Asians (or any other group). A large proportion of Bradford city centre was demolished 7 or 8 years ago in order to build a new, full scale shopping centre. Retailers in the remaining town centre did not renew leases in anticipation of moving to the new shopping centre. Other businesses did not open in Bradford for the same reason. Sadly, the 2008 financial crisis left the developer, Westfield, unable to raise funds to build the project and it remained in limbo for six years until earlier this year. Retailers are now flocking to sign up to the new development.

If you took any time to look properly at the buildings in the town centre, you would noticed Bradford has one the most architecturally interesting city centres in the country, a legacy of vast wealth during the industrial revolution (Little Germany is wonderful). Things change, however, including demographics. Had you visited Oastler Market you would seen a vibrant Asian community with spices, clothes and textiles being sold alongside meat from traditional English butchers and greasy spoons. People integrating.

I'll tell you one thing; if you find Bradford scary, don't ever visit London.



mikebradford

2,483 posts

144 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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People forget the Bradford district is huge. Covering such generally white areas like skipton and ilkley. The fact the town centre appears to have a more Asian population than the census, is likely due to the Asian community origanally setting up in areas in and around the centre.
The majority of people from Bradford will likely go shopping in Leeds, harrogate and any other areas to avoid what is a poor city centre in comparison.
Intresting that it now is misleading when walking round the town centre, if listening to conversations as the majority of the white people are not speacking English. More likely eastern European.
I think it's more likely to be 50% English in the town centre area at best.

Semi irrelevent that the architecture is beautiful when it's generally a dump with a lack of decent shops compared with it's neighbour Leeds.

kazste

5,665 posts

197 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Usget said:
Why does "Asian" correspond with "st" again, sorry?
Was reading this thread thinking the same to be honest, I stand by the fact that it doesn't matter if your white black brown oap adult child rich poor woman or man, there are only two types of people on this planet, people who are okay and people who are sts. Ignore the sts enough and there will be in decline.

tleefox

1,110 posts

147 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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NeMiSiS said:
You need to go to Bolton.
Or Luton.

Leicesterdave

Original Poster:

2,282 posts

179 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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tenpenceshort said:
They're British because they're British (as British as you or I). Integration is a two way street, and there's nothing in your posts here to suggest you want to integrate with another culture (the impression is that your version of integration is they adopt your ways).
I stand by my posts. Bradford centre, which is where most tourists would flock to is a dive. Can you imagine a tourist landing in the centre of Bradford and thinking they were visiting Britain? It's not exactly what you'd expect is it? Fair enough the world is now one big melting pot of cultures and you don't expect (especially in cities) just to see the one race but I really think Bradford is nothing like any other UK city. It's a mess in every way.

tenpenceshort

32,880 posts

216 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Leicesterdave said:
I stand by my posts. Bradford centre, which is where most tourists would flock to is a dive. Can you imagine a tourist landing in the centre of Bradford and thinking they were visiting Britain? It's not exactly what you'd expect is it? Fair enough the world is now one big melting pot of cultures and you don't expect (especially in cities) just to see the one race but I really think Bradford is nothing like any other UK city. It's a mess in every way.
Your posts suggest you are not well travelled in this country. I suggest you spend some time in other towns and cities (not just in the north of England) and you will see a similar story to Bradford.

dave_s13

13,813 posts

268 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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MitchT said:
The figures probably mean everywhere that has a 'BD' postcode, which can be as far North as Settle in the Yorkshire Dales. The BD postcode has some beautiful places in it. I live in the nice end of Bingley (BD16) and, as much as I love to travel and see the world, I really wouldn't want to leave my home here.
I agree with this. When you drive through Bradford you invariably only see the almost ghettoised areas that feel exclusively "non white", they are also scruffy st holes with crap roads and dodgy driving.

This is why everyone forms such anegative view if the place and avoids it wherever possible, me included.

TheRealFingers99

1,996 posts

127 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Leicesterdave said:
I stand by my posts. Bradford centre, which is where most tourists would flock to is a dive.
Most tourists would head straight to Saltaire and on to Holmfirth (etc.) (unless they were visiting the Film Museum or studying architecture).

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Indeed. Or Sunderland, Grimsby, Sheffield, bits of Liverpool and Manchester, Salford, Hull, Blackpool, .......

There is one common factor. Large numbers of poor people.

mikebradford

2,483 posts

144 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Countdown said:
There is one common factor. Large numbers of poor people.
Thats an intresting point
But are their different cultural attitudes at play? As i accept their are more than a few run down white areas!
But is their a general acceptance by the Asian community that there areas are OK, but from other peoples perspective they see it as run down.

Wealth could be a part of this, but i know lots of wealthy Asian people. But they still live in areas that i would move out of instantly if i had their money. You could argue they wish to stay there due to family ties etc. But i would argue they dont place as high an importance on the place looking as tidy as some other ethnic groups.
Very generalised i admit.
It could be argued that the white groups that appear to drag down areas, usually social housing have a similar perspective. I would argue that a Place like Ilkley, predominantley rich with great town centre and extremely clean and well cared for parks. Have far less money spent on their communal spaces, probably due to less expenditure on repairs.
People who have a mindset that appreciate nice things tend to not trash or avoid maintaining them.
Ilkley i would accept have lots of additional money pumped in by groups intrested in the preservation and upkeep of the area for example.

But drive down any council estate, and you can see all the same housing types, but the differance in how people keep their homes is amazing. From some very well maintained gardens, and general cleanliness.
To houses that look 1 step from being abandonded. broken fences etc.
You cant tell me the broken fences etc usuall by kids isnt down to the lack of rules instilled into kids.
The gardens full of mud, where people have choosen to abandon broken down cars of the road etc.
It all helps a place look run down, and their are groups of people both Asian and White that appear to be happy to live with this, for their own reasons.
Just a shame that those who have a different mindset have to look at it.
The poor cant move out of these areas. but those with money can, and as such will migrate to areas with what they would classify as like minded people.

This then just exagerates the problem in terms of wealth leaving areas


Edited by mikebradford on Sunday 31st August 10:05

Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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It's a fking sthole - my first IT contract was there for Yorkshire Water in 1992 and it wasn't all that bad.

Fast forward to about five years ago and I drive to Bradford for an interview for a contract with a certain well known credit agency who's name ends in "fax". I parked up and was appalled - I could just as well have been in a particularly backward part of Pakistan. What a dump.

I phoned the agency and cancelled the interview.

Fast forward another 20 years and I suspect this will be the state of most cities and big towns.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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I doubt that it's cultural.

There were slum towns in England way before there was any large scale immigration. If you look at London there are deprived areas where the population is mainly black/Asian/white. Which makes me think that it's "poor people" = crap area rather than "furriners" = crap area.


Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes they do.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Dog Star said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes they do.
Do you know Bacup well by any chance? Or Waterfoot? Or Whitworth?

Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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I live not far from Rochdale, and I see what happens. Total ghettoisation.

Shame as its actually a great town in a lovely location.

I've got friends upping sticks and moving away now, and myself and the OH are next. We live in a lovely semi-rural location, great pubs, nice walks etc, but we know what's coming. Our place is lovely and it's a shame, but we are currently getting some work done and next target is to be out and moved away. Target location - as far away from a big town as possible.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
quotequote all
I just wondered if you knew why Bacup and Whitworth were such "dives" given there are hardly any Asians there.

P.s. there are plenty of white-only council estates around Rochdale that equal Bradford..

Timsta

2,779 posts

245 months

Sunday 31st August 2014
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Dog Star said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes they do.
This is an interesting theory actually. Are there any towns with a large "non-indigenous" population that aren't scummy? If so, where did these people originate from?