Children, manners and good habits from an early age...

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

duffy78 said:

Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

Most importantly, I would like to think that I am proficient at two important standards in life - decent spelling, grammar and punctuation, and possessing good table-manners.

Not maths then?

Spelling, grammar and punctuation are generally observed as one and the same thing. In my book, anyway

[skeggysteve]

You teach your children to eat with a knife and fork........and then you give them a slice of toast

[Risotto]

bingybongy said:

it is never excusable to hold your knife like a fking pen. Any person doing so is a peasant.

Surely you were taught a fish knife should be held in precisely the same manner as a pen? No? Gosh, what a dreadful peasant you must be!

Unfortunately these days many people seem to think a limited knowledge of etiquette is simply a tool to belittle others and draw smug conclusions about them.

Personally I don't find much call for the more arcane traditions and on a day-to-day basis, as long as diners can keep their food out of sight when they chew, can engage in inclusive conversation and don't lick their plate clean, that's perfectly adequate.

[bingybongy]

Risotto said:

bingybongy said:

it is never excusable to hold your knife like a fking pen. Any person doing so is a peasant.

Surely you were taught a fish knife should be held in precisely the same manner as a pen? No? Gosh, what a dreadful peasant you must be!

Unfortunately these days many people seem to think a limited knowledge of etiquette is simply a tool to belittle others and draw smug conclusions about them.

Personally I don't find much call for the more arcane traditions and on a day-to-day basis, as long as diners can keep their food out of sight when they chew, can engage in inclusive conversation and don't lick their plate clean, that's perfectly adequate.

Fish Knife? Never used one.

I'm not trying to belittle or be smug to anyone.

Feel free to dig into your steak or breakfast thus


I bet you don't though.

[Mobile Chicane]

bingybongy said:

Using a fork is fine for certain meals, like curry or chilli etc.
However it is never excusable to hold your knife like a fking pen. Any person doing so is a peasant.
I will accept no argument, if you disagree you are wrong.

*shudder*

I'd rather someone ate with their hands than HKLP.

[StuntmanMike]

OP this isn't meant to be a sleight as you haven't got kids, but we found that actually getting young children to eat was more important than table manners, you won't believe how finicky they are.
When they got towards school age, that's when etiquette comes into it.
As for holding a knife with your dominant hand, I do that as I'm left handed, I don't hold it like a pen though, that seems weird.

[98elise]

stevesingo said:

Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

; that is, with a fork in their dominant hand,

I use my fork with the dominant hand (with the knife in the left as it happens), what of it?

My kids are polite and eat well, as in anything, not fussy. If one of my children wants to use their dominant hand for taking the food from the plate to their mouths, the same as they would do with the soup spoon or dessert spoon so be it. I will not force them to use their non dominant hand just to please people who have the "we have always done that" and "that is how it is to be done" mentality.

If they use their hands, they get a serving spoon on the forehead mind you.

Agreed, I use my dominant hand for my fork, always have and always will. My wife and kids hold their knife in the dominant hand.

Why does it matter what hand I use? Do people like this get upset when chinese people use chopsticks?

[StuntmanMike]

98elise said:

stevesingo said:

Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

; that is, with a fork in their dominant hand,

I use my fork with the dominant hand (with the knife in the left as it happens), what of it?

My kids are polite and eat well, as in anything, not fussy. If one of my children wants to use their dominant hand for taking the food from the plate to their mouths, the same as they would do with the soup spoon or dessert spoon so be it. I will not force them to use their non dominant hand just to please people who have the "we have always done that" and "that is how it is to be done" mentality.

If they use their hands, they get a serving spoon on the forehead mind you.

Agreed, I use my dominant hand for my fork, always have and always will. My wife and kids hold their knife in the dominant hand.

Why does it matter what hand I use? Do people like this get upset when chinese people use chopsticks?

Because this is PH.
This means you should only take about 25 percent seriously.

[vx220]

oldcynic said:

If the only complaint you can level against my little darlings is the way that they eat then I'm not doing too badly

This

I don't have kids, but I do work with them. You fight the battles you can win, and need to win. So if they grow up holding a fork incorrectly, but get a minimum wage job, aren't being abused or abusive, then in todays society you have done ok.

I know my job(s) give me a different outlook to a parent, and it doesn't mean you don't try, but sometimes there are bigger fish to fry

[DoubleSix]

el stovey said:

I tell my children to hold their cutlery properly. Repeatedly.

If they don't do it, I let it go, as for us a meal is a social occasion full of fighting happiness and sharing of family news.

Good for you.

I intend to take this approach when my kid is of an age to start eating with us. My parents would yell at us and create an 'atmosphere' - far too many mealtimes were spoilt as a result.

It's important. But not as important as a happy cohesive family unit.

[Triumph Man]

I heard one child tell another, loudly, to "fk OFF!!" the other day. There are Housing Association houses at the end of our road and they can be a nightmare...

[Moonhawk]

Meh - table 'etiquette' is simply what some random bloke arbitrarily decided was acceptable 300 odd years ago.

As long as you eat in a clean and tidy fashion - who really gives a f#ck how you hold your knife and fork. Surely the most important thing is that, however you use them, it is comfortable and practical for you.

As for fish knives - seriously - what is the point. What advantage does it actually convey to the user during the consumption of a fish dish. Is it's use simply a carry over from times when the quality and quantity of your silverware was a sign of wealth and status.

[Dog Star]

With regard to school meals - I've seen a few pictures on the news lately and it would appear that in schools now they don't use plates anymore, but those plastic "compartmented" trays (for want of a better description). This strikes me as very, er, plebby. Not impressed.

[trumptriple]

Agree with Moonhawk above, the rules are a bit stuffy for my liking. As long as people are clean and polite I don't mind. TV always goes off, we always sit at the table together, and it's a social occasion.

I don't follow all the rules, wife is foreign, and son is left handed. Can't be arsed to argue about it.

The main thing that does slightly bother me is noisy eating, as pointed out in another thread.

[Justin Cyder]

trumptriple said:

TV always goes off, we always sit at the table together, and it's a social occasion.

This is our policy too. We eat together without distractions. After that it can all get a bit Simpsons for all I care, but breaking bread socially is key in our family.

[HTP99]

stevesingo said:

Ray Luxury-Yacht said:

; that is, with a fork in their dominant hand,

I use my fork with the dominant hand (with the knife in the left as it happens), what of it?

My kids are polite and eat well, as in anything, not fussy. If one of my children wants to use their dominant hand for taking the food from the plate to their mouths, the same as they would do with the soup spoon or dessert spoon so be it. I will not force them to use their non dominant hand just to please people who have the "we have always done that" and "that is how it is to be done" mentality.

If they use their hands, they get a serving spoon on the forehead mind you.

Both my wife and myself use a fork in our dominant hand; the right, oddly our yougest who is left handed eats the "correct way", I'm not sure how my eldest; who is right handed eats though.

Regarding proper eating etiquette; as long as my two eat properly and politely with no mess and ask to leave when they are done; as opposed to just getting down, then I am happy, they are 15 and 22 and have always eaten well, what we as adults ate and with us.

Contrast this with my sisters ghastly kids who are almost 3 and 6, they don't eat proper adult food, only nuggets, pizza and crap, they eat with their hands, her two year old still throws food about, we see the "adorable" videos on FB "oh isn't he sweet and funny?" and they are constantly up and down from the table without a murmour from my sister.

[BreakingBad]

Justin Cyder said:

trumptriple said:

TV always goes off, we always sit at the table together, and it's a social occasion.

This is our policy too. We eat together without distractions. After that it can all get a bit Simpsons for all I care, but breaking bread socially is key in our family.

Yep! Our policy is "no screens" at the table - no TV, no phones, tablets, iPods or anything like that.

Fortunately, although the older ones are on Facebook and other, so-called "social" media, they are not addicted to it like some are and, partly due to the no screens policy IMO, they can last more than a family meal time without having to tweet or update or whatever and join in the conversation.

Again, we feel these are more important matters than sticking rigidly to cutlery etiquette although that is very much encouraged, too.

[HTP99]

Interestingly we were in Sardinia last week for 10 days and the contrast with the behaviour of the children in general and sitting in a restaurant to eat with their parents was like night and day compared to the majority of unruly children that the UK seem to drag up.

[Bill]

Risotto said:

Surely you were taught a fish knife should be held in precisely the same manner as a pen? No? Gosh, what a dreadful peasant you must be!

Unfortunately these days many people seem to think a limited knowledge of etiquette is simply a tool to belittle others and draw smug conclusions about them.

A fish knife is a bit nouveau, no?

[FlossyThePig]

Moonhawk said:

...As for fish knives - seriously - what is the point...

Our eldest grandson was delighted when we provided a cake fork. A couple of years later we did the same for his younger brother who announced "Granny, this forks broken"

BreakingBad said:

Yep! Our policy is "no screens" at the table - no TV, no phones, tablets, iPods or anything like that.

Having a meal in a restaurant recently, there was a young couple at the next table. They hardly spoke but spent most of the time between courses looking at their phones and texting.