so where did this mandatory 10% tipping thing start??

so where did this mandatory 10% tipping thing start??

Author
Discussion

soad

32,829 posts

175 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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Uh uh, I don’t tip. No, I don’t believe in it... Reservoir Dogs Tipping/Gratuity Scene

Landlord

12,689 posts

256 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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Just to add the other side to the discussion. We, and our staff, see tips received purely as a "well done" reward for good food/service above and beyond that which you would expect as the norm. They definitely aren't expected and when received are very much appreciated. ALL of the tips are shared amongst ALL of the staff for that shift (the only fair way IMHO. Chefs, FoH and bar all play their part). Not a single penny goes to the management (me). This includes tips paid on card - which, due to percentage-based card transaction fees means that we (the management) actually sub this amount. This can be a decent amount if you multiply it up across the tips paid by card for a year.

So, don't be too quick to universally think;

  • tips are expected
  • tips don't go to all members of staff and just go to your server
  • tips are "taxed" by the management/owners
  • tips paid in cash are treated any differently to tips paid by card
  • not paying a tip will adversely affect any future service - it may well help the server to know they're doing something wrong. English people (myself included) in the main find it difficult to complain face-to-face so not tipping is an easy way to express displeasure.
... sometimes employers and servers are "one of us" too! wink

exception to prove the rule etc. taken as read

LoFiHamster2

45 posts

140 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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As others have said, in the US, serving staff are taxed on their expected earnings (including tips), so if you don't tip, it effectively costs them money to serve you (I'm unaware of anywhere where the waiters pay to work, but it wouldn't surprise me).

Someone else mentioned that Pizza Express (in the UK) took PAYE on *expected* tips (as above) - I'd be surprised if that were the case. More likely, the tips are paid to the house, then included in the pay packet, and so PAYE would be paid on the actual tips received by the staff.

Happy to be corrected.

WD39

20,083 posts

115 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Driver101 said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
WD39 said:
Years ago in Chicago, at a restaurant, I got talking to the manager about tipping.She did say that the serving staff earned Five dollars an hour and relied on tips to survive.I suggested that what if the service and meal had been bad, would they still expect the 25%? Yes was the answer.I believe that the expected tip in the US currently is 30%.
Seriously 30% eek

On Reflection, I would guess that a 30% tip is probably expected in the major cities where these trends usually start.Much less elsewhere.

I lived in Texas early/mid 90s and the expected tip then was 18%, a restaurant I ate at regularly had a rule (clearly printed in the menu) that groups of eight or more the service charge was added to the bill, less than eight you tipped what you wanted.

The service was always first class and I tipped between 15 and 20%.
Regularly restaurants in the US print what various percentages work out to be. The vast majority of restaurants had between 13-18% calculated on the receipt as an indication. One or two had 15-21% and once did I see 25%.

Never once seen above 25% which is already too high.

Matt..

3,586 posts

188 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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I never pay this. I hate the fact places do it, and I hate the way it's become accepted by the vast majority, in a way that now it's seen as wrong to not pay it.

I'll tip if it's been good service, but I'm paying no 'optional' charges if they chance it by adding it to the bill.

Obviously this is different elsewhere in the world, but that's my view for the UK.

krallicious

4,312 posts

204 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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I work in the restaurant business but have never worked anywhere where the tip was added to the bill.

For good food and service, the tip would normally be 10%. I don't know where this comes from but it is the accepted amount Germany wide. This 10% is not expected but if the customer is happy with their evening then something for the staff is very much appreciated.

Dependant on the restaurant, the tip is shared differently. Normally the serving staff are asked to give a minimum of 1 or 2% of their tip from the evening to the kitchen. The money will then be split between the chefs according to seniority and given out at the end of every month. The tip is essentially your top up pay for all of the unpaid overtime for the previous month (OT is quite often 50% of your agreed hours).

Other restaurants will split the tip equally between between all of the chefs and serving staff. This system is far better than the one described above as everyone is awarded for good work over the whole month.


HTP99

22,445 posts

139 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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hora said:
Anyway that automatically adds it to your bill worries me. Do they put that towards the staffs wages slyly as part of their overheads? Makes me wonder.
Not sure if I have mentioned this and I can't be bothered to go back and check; a large group of us went to Pizza Express a couple of months ago and we had great service, the usual discretionary "service charge" was added to the bill as there were more than 10(?) of us, we asked the waitress if she received any of it; she didn't, so we declined to pay it as part of the bill and gave it to her in cash.

Anyway why should a larger group of people pay more, surely it is easier to cater and wait for a large group rather than many individual tables who will order food and drinks at varying times?

john2443

6,325 posts

210 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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I think that staff should be paid a decent amount and we shouldn't have to tip, but....

...on the other hand my daughter's weekend job is waitress in a pub/restaurant, she earns £40 for a shift and typically gets £30 tips but on Sunday got £95 tips which really makes the difference between it being a rubbish job and a good one! She's very proud of the fact that McDonalds rejected her - I don't imagine the tips there are very good.

Obviously where she works has a different system to what others have mentioned above - their system is that the waiting staff put some of their tips (about 20%) into a pot for bar and kitchen staff as they don't get tips otherwise, and they just keep the rest. Nothing has been said to them about tax - card tips are taxed and NI'd, cash just works like it did in the old days, pocket it and keep quiet! (HMRC say that cash tips should be taxed, card tips have tax and NI)

Landlord

12,689 posts

256 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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HTP99 said:
Anyway why should a larger group of people pay more, surely it is easier to cater and wait for a large group rather than many individual tables who will order food and drinks at varying times?
Obviously it depends on the type of food the restaurant serves, but getting the order of a large group ready and out at the same time is much harder than doing it in dribs-and-drabs. Just FYI, like.

HTP99

22,445 posts

139 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Landlord said:
HTP99 said:
Anyway why should a larger group of people pay more, surely it is easier to cater and wait for a large group rather than many individual tables who will order food and drinks at varying times?
Obviously it depends on the type of food the restaurant serves, but getting the order of a large group ready and out at the same time is much harder than doing it in dribs-and-drabs. Just FYI, like.
Ok, but they are a restaurant, they should deal with it, providing food is their business, whether it is for a couple of people or a large group.

Odd as with most businesses if someone places a larger order they usually get better terms, when it is a group of people going out to eat then they are expected to pay more.

Type R Tom

3,859 posts

148 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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HTP99 said:
Ok, but they are a restaurant, they should deal with it, providing food is their business, whether it is for a couple of people or a large group.

Odd as with most businesses if someone places a larger order they usually get better terms, when it is a group of people going out to eat then they are expected to pay more.
Normally when you get a big group you get forced onto a "party" menu, usual consisting of easier meals to cook, sometimes it’s a bit cheaper. Most places then stick 12.5% on!

OllieC

3,816 posts

213 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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I'm with Mr Pink when it comes to tipping - the Mrs still does it though

As for the US, they need to get their st in order and make sure people serving food are paid an appropriate wage.

Landlord

12,689 posts

256 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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HTP99 said:
Odd as with most businesses if someone places a larger order they usually get better terms, when it is a group of people going out to eat then they are expected to pay more.
Just to be clear, I was responding to the "surely it's easier" comment and clarifying why it's not. Not justifying the service charge itself.

Also, if the group go for a set-menu, they usually do get "better terms" due to bulk purchasing of raw ingredients meaning either the cost price is lower than a la carte - and therefore sale price can be lower, or better quality ingredients (fillet versus rump for example) can be used for the same price. If not ordering from a set menu, just because a large group may be ordering more a la carte dishes than a smaller table does in one transaction, the cost of each dish is the same regardless.

hora said:
Any remainding out of those bottles just gets put behind the bar to be used for by-the glass paying customers huh? win-win wink
Blimey, what kind of places do you eat at?! We would NEVER do that!

WE drink the remainder wink

lukefreeman

1,492 posts

174 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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I tip good service in general. I've tipped a sports Massuer in the past, and the woman who rums the cattery.

Good service or a good deed? Yes.


Gareth79

7,628 posts

245 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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Driver101 said:
Regularly restaurants in the US print what various percentages work out to be. The vast majority of restaurants had between 13-18% calculated on the receipt as an indication. One or two had 15-21% and once did I see 25%.

Never once seen above 25% which is already too high.
Ditto, I have visited the US quite a bit, staying with locals, and the expected range is 15-20%. The average will vary by state and city but I doubt staff will judge tourists for not giving the average! I expect they'd be pleased/surprised to get any tip off a Brit!



off_again

12,252 posts

233 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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rigga said:
If paying by card I never tip, as its highly likely the waiter/ress will never see it, but if its been good service I will hand them some money on leaving.
This - I found out once that card transactions were just processed through via the management of a place and the staff never got to see anything. The manager then skimmed it all of for themselves and occasionally gave a "bonus" to the staff. Heard it a few times since, but not sure if its quite real. But as a result, pay bill with a card and then leave cash as a tip - no guarantee that it goes to the waiter / waitress, but hopefully a better chance.

But then, worry that some random scrote picks up the cash, pockets it and I get evils while leaving.....

Or is that just because of the places I visit?

hehe

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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I always ask the staff if the tip goes to them.

And yes, I pay a tip - hairdresser, taxi, restaurant and even the delivery person (even when we are charged £5 for the delivery).

mouseymousey

2,641 posts

236 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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HTP99 said:
Not sure if I have mentioned this and I can't be bothered to go back and check; a large group of us went to Pizza Express a couple of months ago and we had great service, the usual discretionary "service charge" was added to the bill as there were more than 10(?) of us, we asked the waitress if she received any of it; she didn't, so we declined to pay it as part of the bill and gave it to her in cash.

Anyway why should a larger group of people pay more, surely it is easier to cater and wait for a large group rather than many individual tables who will order food and drinks at varying times?
Your waitress was fibbing in order to shaft her colleagues in the kitchen out of a few quid and pocket the whole lot.

http://www.pizzaexpress.com/customerservice/answer...

PizzaExpress Website said:
Where do my tips go?

All cash tips go straight to your waiter. But credit card tips and our service charge tips are different. For those, we make a small admin charge of 8%. The remaining 92% is split 70-30 between your waiter and the kitchen team.

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
mouseymousey said:
HTP99 said:
Not sure if I have mentioned this and I can't be bothered to go back and check; a large group of us went to Pizza Express a couple of months ago and we had great service, the usual discretionary "service charge" was added to the bill as there were more than 10(?) of us, we asked the waitress if she received any of it; she didn't, so we declined to pay it as part of the bill and gave it to her in cash.

Anyway why should a larger group of people pay more, surely it is easier to cater and wait for a large group rather than many individual tables who will order food and drinks at varying times?
Your waitress was fibbing in order to shaft her colleagues in the kitchen out of a few quid and pocket the whole lot.

http://www.pizzaexpress.com/customerservice/answer...

PizzaExpress Website said:
Where do my tips go?

All cash tips go straight to your waiter. But credit card tips and our service charge tips are different. For those, we make a small admin charge of 8%. The remaining 92% is split 70-30 between your waiter and the kitchen team.
True but...

Pay cash, waiter gets it, and. Pay by card, PE take 8%, Govt take N.I., both employers and employees (around 30%) then the remaining 62% is shared out, and taxable. Pay tip direct, no NI involved.

IanMorewood

4,309 posts

247 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
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A long time ago working tables as a student tips made up more than a usual evenings pay. Every tip went in a jar next to the till and was split equally between all staff, everyone working a shift was a vital part to what was taken that day so the pot washer got as much benefit as the manager who often would be working the bar.