Do you spare change for the homeless?

[PHuzzy]

jimbop1 said:

Officer or pen pusher?

Reality isn't as simple as that.

Neither. Nice insult by the way, very narrow minded.
If they sorted out their medical care I'd currently be in Afghanistan, so don't give me the reality, I've had my share of st treatment from them regarding my injury.

The help is there for ex forces, fact. If people decide they don't need it when they actually do, how is that anyone's fault but their own?

[Engineerino]

There are adverts in London now advising not to give money, after spending a weekend in Chelsea I can see why - Borderline aggressive guys who all look to be from the same family on the side roads desperately thrusting their cups in your face. Give me suspicion that these guys don't get to end up keeping what they collect.

On the other hand, I work a lot opposite Charing cross station and most homeless I see are part of the woodwork, not usually asking for change and often giving directions to the platforms / tube etc. used to talk to one guy who never asked me once for money or cigarettes but only if id mind if he open the stub bin near me out in order to collect salvageable butt ends, i used to have harsh views on vagrants but interaction with people like this guy have made me realise some people are genuinely down on their luck.

That being said, I would rather give nutritional food than any money to someone who looks like they need it.

[BrabusMog]

Jasandjules said:

Symbolica said:

Once again PH'ers manage to plumb new depths of ishness towards anybody whose lives haven't panned out exactly like theirs have.

And all too many appear ignorant of just how easily it could happen to them too.

I don't think there is an easy way that I could end up homeless, I'd have to lose all my friends, family, business and money.

I also fail to see how not giving money to homeless people is plumbing new depths of ishness. Good word though, I'll be stealing that one.

[vescaegg]

Jasandjules said:

Symbolica said:

Once again PH'ers manage to plumb new depths of ishness towards anybody whose lives haven't panned out exactly like theirs have.

And all too many appear ignorant of just how easily it could happen to them too.

This thread is eye opening. So many people who as someone else said, I thought I could tell the charecter of (perhaps even thinking I could is stupid though), are shockingly calous in their views.

BrabusMog said:

I don't think there is an easy way that I could end up homeless, I'd have to lose all my friends, family, business and money.

A lot of people have few or none of those to start with; many more have had them and lost them.

[mph1977]

Engineerino said:

<snip> i used to have harsh views on vagrants but interaction with people like this guy have made me realise some people are genuinely down on their luck.

While thouse of us with experience in health, social care , and the emergency services , note that many of them refuse to engage with the services that would put a roof over their head, food in their belly , money in their packets and support them to find a meaningful job ( even if itis 'just' selling the Big Issue).

the numbers of scammers is fairly high.

[e21Mark]

vescaegg said:

Jasandjules said:

Symbolica said:

Once again PH'ers manage to plumb new depths of ishness towards anybody whose lives haven't panned out exactly like theirs have.

And all too many appear ignorant of just how easily it could happen to them too.

This thread is eye opening. So many people who as someone else said, I thought I could tell the charecter of (perhaps even thinking I could is stupid though), are shockingly calous in their views.

BrabusMog said:

I don't think there is an easy way that I could end up homeless, I'd have to lose all my friends, family, business and money.

A lot of people have few or none of those to start with; many more have had them and lost them.

Or are so ashamed of finding themselves in such a desperate position, they simply stop all contact.

[Faust66]

BrabusMog said:

I don't think there is an easy way that I could end up homeless, I'd have to lose all my friends, family, business and money.

I'll willing to bet that the vast majority of people living on the streets once thought exactly the same thing in their previous lives…

Hubris. Does this mean anything to you?

[WinstonWolf]

e21Mark said:

vescaegg said:

Jasandjules said:

Symbolica said:

Once again PH'ers manage to plumb new depths of ishness towards anybody whose lives haven't panned out exactly like theirs have.

And all too many appear ignorant of just how easily it could happen to them too.

This thread is eye opening. So many people who as someone else said, I thought I could tell the charecter of (perhaps even thinking I could is stupid though), are shockingly calous in their views.

BrabusMog said:

I don't think there is an easy way that I could end up homeless, I'd have to lose all my friends, family, business and money.

A lot of people have few or none of those to start with; many more have had them and lost them.

Or are so ashamed of finding themselves in such a desperate position, they simply stop all contact.

One thing this thread has done is make me decide that next time I see a homeless person I'm going to buy them some food.

[BrabusMog]

Yes, I know what hubris means. Surely that doesn't relate to not being able to face up to your problems and speak to someone?

The whole issue of homelessness shows surprising differences of opinion, I can't help mine, but I still feel that it's a justified one.

[vescaegg]

BrabusMog said:

Yes, I know what hubris means. Surely that doesn't relate to not being able to face up to your problems and speak to someone?

Id love to see you homeless and see how you feel giving up all sense of self respect and notion of 'being a man' by asking for help when you are desperate. A lot of people would find it incredibly difficult; its not in most peoples nature to be comfortable owing people, especially when you would effectively owe them everything if they got you off the streets.

To be fair add to the above being cold, hungry, miserable, tired, irritable, sick (possibly) addicted to some sort of coping mechanism like drugs or drink and its not hard to see why people like you have the beliefs you do.

[BrabusMog]

Charming.

[boobles]

DoubleSix said:

Jesus H.

I think this post neatly demonstrates just how removed from the realties of 'life' some on here are.

Some people don't have loved ones. Some people are abused in horrendous ways by the very people that are supposed to be protecting them through life. Some people lose their loved ones to drugs, alcoholism, crime....

Some people are ALONE in this life and have no one who would even bat an eye if they ceased to exist.

Sorry if my post seems blunt but really, if you are over the age of 16 I'd expect this to be pretty common knowledge.

So every homeless person has NO family members at all.

Behave would you!!! What rubbish. Serously what aload of bks.

[anonymous-user]

OzzyR1 said:

In the past, me and the OH have helped out at a shelter one of our friends volunteers at when they need extra pairs of hands. If some posters here could lower themselves to talk to folks on the streets, they might realise a lot aren't just there to get some free soup, its because they are as far down the "ladder of society" as it gets and can't see a way out. Many are ex-forces who left the services and now cannot find a job because they don't possess the requisite GCSE or other qualifications - probably why they joined up in the first place. On leaving, they find they have nowhere to go. I've met others who had decent jobs, lost them in the recession, split from the wife who kept the house and joint account and found themselves with no money and no future in the space of a few weeks. Won't even go into those who have mental issues or teenagers who ran away from home because life was so bad there they felt they had no other choice. Some people have been dealt a very bad hand in life through no fault of their own - I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I understand what you're saying, but...

I paid attention at school, went to college, then night school whilst working to pay for it, forewent (is that a word?) holidays and the like to save for a deposit for a house (zero help from parents - I too was a teenager that decided to walk away one day and found a room to rent while I get myself sorted), to ensure I put myself in as good a position as I could for life.

Now, 15 years later, I'm not in the slightest bit rich, my mortgage is big, I haven't had a holiday in some years and my car is getting old, and I'm just about keeping my head above the water, no savings, no big fund for when I hit 40 and want to extend the house, or have a child, get married, or get a tattoo or a new pushbike etc. But, if I DO lose my job, I've got enough overpayments to keep me going for a couple of years, everything else is paid off, no loans for anything except the mortgage. I've never been out of work, never had a cash job, or tried to avoid paying my taxes. I'm bent over by the NHS because I work. (An example: My eyes are very bad, around -14 or -15 diopter. If I didn't pay for my glasses, I'd need a carer to help me cross a road, cook, or even have a pee. But because I work, ALL my fees are charged to me. I don't get a penny from the NHS. This isn't a complaint, but a justification.)

So, why should I feel guilty about keeping what's left of my money in my pocket, and not giving it to someone who decided to laugh off school, not bother with exams, live off "the social" etc, when I walk past the down-and-outs every day and hear them talking, loudly and in the street, for example about how "It's lovely when you smoke it" - WHATEVER could they be talking about?! The same people who sit next to a cash machine and pester every single person using the machine for money. AFAIAC, they really ARE scum. I also realise they probably think exactly the same about me, and would be robbing my car if I left a fiver on display in the ashtray. These aren't ex-forces, or timid elderly gents who have found themselves there through society stitching them up. If anything, they're the ones doing the stitching up of society.

Bleeding hearts are not a cure-for-all.

[DoubleSix]

I said some Boobbles.

Nonetheless, as the homeless are a small proportion of society as a whole there are a disproportionate number (far higher!) who have very fragmented backgrounds and a lack support networks.

Your question of "where are their families??" indicates you dont understand this.

[boobles]

DoubleSix said:

I said some.

Nonetheless, as the homeless are a small proportion of society as a whole there are a disproportionate number (far higher!) who have very fragmented backgrounds and a lack support networks.

Your question of "where are their families??" indicates you dont understand this.

& had you read my post properly you would have seen that I was referring to ex service men/women & people who gone through a devorce. Are you telling me that these people have nobody to turn to because all of their family members abused them (or what ever you are suggesting) when they were younger?

[DoubleSix]

boobles said:

& had you read my post properly you would have seen that I was referring to ex service men/women & people who gone through a devorce. Are you telling me that these people have nobody to turn to because all of their family members abused them (or what ever you are suggesting) when they were younger?

Sorry, you appear to be the type of poster that wants to talk in absolutes and attempt to turn a grey issue into a black & white one.

Not sure there's much point in my engaging you further on this one.

[boobles]

DoubleSix said:

Sorry, you appear to be the type of poster that wants to talk in absolutes and attempt to turn a grey issue into a black & white one.

Not sure there's much point in my engaging you further on this one.

I am trying to understand your reasoning for suggesting that they have nobody to turn to...

I am confused as to why decent hard working people who end up with nothing & end up homeless have no family members to turn to. Not all of them are theiving drug taking scum bags who lose all connections with their family & this is what I was trying to point out.

At the end of the day, you quoted something that I had written. I then try to explain what I meant & you didn't like my answer

Edited by boobles on Thursday 16th October 12:31

[WinstonWolf]

OpulentBob said:

OzzyR1 said:

In the past, me and the OH have helped out at a shelter one of our friends volunteers at when they need extra pairs of hands. If some posters here could lower themselves to talk to folks on the streets, they might realise a lot aren't just there to get some free soup, its because they are as far down the "ladder of society" as it gets and can't see a way out. Many are ex-forces who left the services and now cannot find a job because they don't possess the requisite GCSE or other qualifications - probably why they joined up in the first place. On leaving, they find they have nowhere to go. I've met others who had decent jobs, lost them in the recession, split from the wife who kept the house and joint account and found themselves with no money and no future in the space of a few weeks. Won't even go into those who have mental issues or teenagers who ran away from home because life was so bad there they felt they had no other choice. Some people have been dealt a very bad hand in life through no fault of their own - I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I understand what you're saying, but...

I paid attention at school, went to college, then night school whilst working to pay for it, forewent (is that a word?) holidays and the like to save for a deposit for a house (zero help from parents - I too was a teenager that decided to walk away one day and found a room to rent while I get myself sorted), to ensure I put myself in as good a position as I could for life.

Now, 15 years later, I'm not in the slightest bit rich, my mortgage is big, I haven't had a holiday in some years and my car is getting old, and I'm just about keeping my head above the water, no savings, no big fund for when I hit 40 and want to extend the house, or have a child, get married, or get a tattoo or a new pushbike etc. But, if I DO lose my job, I've got enough overpayments to keep me going for a couple of years, everything else is paid off, no loans for anything except the mortgage. I've never been out of work, never had a cash job, or tried to avoid paying my taxes. I'm bent over by the NHS because I work. (An example: My eyes are very bad, around -14 or -15 diopter. If I didn't pay for my glasses, I'd need a carer to help me cross a road, cook, or even have a pee. But because I work, ALL my fees are charged to me. I don't get a penny from the NHS. This isn't a complaint, but a justification.)

So, why should I feel guilty about keeping what's left of my money in my pocket, and not giving it to someone who decided to laugh off school, not bother with exams, live off "the social" etc, when I walk past the down-and-outs every day and hear them talking, loudly and in the street, for example about how "It's lovely when you smoke it" - WHATEVER could they be talking about?! The same people who sit next to a cash machine and pester every single person using the machine for money. AFAIAC, they really ARE scum. I also realise they probably think exactly the same about me, and would be robbing my car if I left a fiver on display in the ashtray. These aren't ex-forces, or timid elderly gents who have found themselves there through society stitching them up. If anything, they're the ones doing the stitching up of society.

Bleeding hearts are not a cure-for-all.

All it takes is one event to line up a perfect storm and all of a sudden that's your life too.

Some homeless are life's dropouts, some are there through no fault of their own.

[Jasandjules]

BrabusMog said:

I don't think there is an easy way that I could end up homeless, I'd have to lose all my friends, family, business and money.

I also fail to see how not giving money to homeless people is plumbing new depths of ishness. Good word though, I'll be stealing that one.

Let me give you a real world example. I would note this is someone I know, this information was provided to me through the family.

Chap has a lovely life and business, nice new car, decent house etc. BUT one day his wife accuses him of rape.

So he is arrested. He gets depressed. His mind is not on his business and it goes under. Oh because he was arrested for rape his family believe the lady, why would she lie right? So they all ostracise him.

Oh, of course because he "raped" his wife, he was removed by the police from his home and informed he could not return.

So, homeless, business gone, and family ostracised. All within a month or two. Of course, each thing that hit him made him more depressed thus his life spiralled downwards.

BUT you know this can never happen to you?

[DoubleSix]

boobles said:

I am trying to understand your reasoning for suggesting that they have nobody to turn to...

I am confused as to why decent hard working people who end up with nothing & end up homeless have no family members to turn to. Not all of them are theiving drug taking scum bags who lose all connections with their family & this is what I was trying to point out.

Ok, I'll try.

Firstly, there is no one reason why. You are trying to find an answer that doesn't exist. The only one unifying thing we can be sure of is that the events that lead up to the individual being homeless were unlikely to be positive. Statistically speaking they are likely to be linked to drugs, alcohol, abuse etc etc

Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 16th October 12:37