Do you spare change for the homeless?
Discussion
DoubleSix said:
Ok, I'll try.
Firstly, there is no one reason why. You are trying to find an answer that doesn't exist. The only one unifying thing we can be sure of is that the events the lead up to the individual were unlikely to be positive. Statistically speaking they are likely to be linked to drugs, alcohol, abuse etc etc
But as others have said - they don't all end up homeless for this reason. The guy who was accused of rape & ended up with nothing, I get that I really do & that situation must be awfull for anyone to have to deal with.Firstly, there is no one reason why. You are trying to find an answer that doesn't exist. The only one unifying thing we can be sure of is that the events the lead up to the individual were unlikely to be positive. Statistically speaking they are likely to be linked to drugs, alcohol, abuse etc etc
WinstonWolf said:
All it takes is one event to line up a perfect storm and all of a sudden that's your life too.
Some homeless are life's dropouts, some are there through no fault of their own.
That's a fair comment, but one can minimise the risk by being proactive and having self-discipline. But yeah, it's not something one wishes for. Some homeless are life's dropouts, some are there through no fault of their own.
boobles said:
DoubleSix said:
Ok, I'll try.
Firstly, there is no one reason why. You are trying to find an answer that doesn't exist. The only one unifying thing we can be sure of is that the events the lead up to the individual were unlikely to be positive. Statistically speaking they are likely to be linked to drugs, alcohol, abuse etc etc
But as others have said - they don't all end up homeless for this reason. The guy who was accused of rape & ended up with nothing, I get that I really do & that situation must be awfull for anyone to have to deal with.Firstly, there is no one reason why. You are trying to find an answer that doesn't exist. The only one unifying thing we can be sure of is that the events the lead up to the individual were unlikely to be positive. Statistically speaking they are likely to be linked to drugs, alcohol, abuse etc etc
We can discuss examples such as the businessman who's wife left and moved away with the new partner and kids, the heroine addict who's parents have disowned them after he burgled their house or the teenager who was abused by her father. To some extent it really doesn't matter. It may seem unfathomable for you but some people really do have no one.
Jasandjules said:
BrabusMog said:
I don't think there is an easy way that I could end up homeless, I'd have to lose all my friends, family, business and money.
I also fail to see how not giving money to homeless people is plumbing new depths of
ishness. Good word though, I'll be stealing that one.
Let me give you a real world example. I would note this is someone I know, this information was provided to me through the family.I also fail to see how not giving money to homeless people is plumbing new depths of
ishness. Good word though, I'll be stealing that one.Chap has a lovely life and business, nice new car, decent house etc. BUT one day his wife accuses him of rape.
So he is arrested. He gets depressed. His mind is not on his business and it goes under. Oh because he was arrested for rape his family believe the lady, why would she lie right? So they all ostracise him.
Oh, of course because he "raped" his wife, he was removed by the police from his home and informed he could not return.
So, homeless, business gone, and family ostracised. All within a month or two. Of course, each thing that hit him made him more depressed thus his life spiralled downwards.
BUT you know this can never happen to you?
ked up situation and sympathies to the person and I am surprised almost to the point of being shocked that his family wouldn't back him up. I am not saying bad things haven't happened to these people, but they happen to lots of people and it seems to me that only the weakest willed ones are ending up on the streets.
OpulentBob said:
WinstonWolf said:
All it takes is one event to line up a perfect storm and all of a sudden that's your life too.
Some homeless are life's dropouts, some are there through no fault of their own.
That's a fair comment, but one can minimise the risk by being proactive and having self-discipline. But yeah, it's not something one wishes for. Some homeless are life's dropouts, some are there through no fault of their own.
We used to have a tramp called Nobby who actually became a bit of a minor local celebrity. Nice enough bloke, he lived in a bus shelter for ten years and the locals often took him food. He even took up golf when someone left him a set of clubs...
Living a normal life these days I think after a bit of ill health.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2248027680/
BrabusMog said:
That's a fked up situation and sympathies to the person and I am surprised almost to the point of being shocked that his family wouldn't back him up.
Eventually one did. That is why he is not on the street, someone let him live in their house. Then found out the whole story. And now won't speak to the other family who took the woman's side.ked up situation and sympathies to the person and I am surprised almost to the point of being shocked that his family wouldn't back him up. Yes, it is a totally incredible situation and frankly it is only because I spoke to the one person who believed him that I discovered this - oh can you guess whether or not another man moved into the family home within a month?!?
WinstonWolf said:
OpulentBob said:
OzzyR1 said:
In the past, me and the OH have helped out at a shelter one of our friends volunteers at when they need extra pairs of hands. If some posters here could lower themselves to talk to folks on the streets, they might realise a lot aren't just there to get some free soup, its because they are as far down the "ladder of society" as it gets and can't see a way out. Many are ex-forces who left the services and now cannot find a job because they don't possess the requisite GCSE or other qualifications - probably why they joined up in the first place. On leaving, they find they have nowhere to go. I've met others who had decent jobs, lost them in the recession, split from the wife who kept the house and joint account and found themselves with no money and no future in the space of a few weeks. Won't even go into those who have mental issues or teenagers who ran away from home because life was so bad there they felt they had no other choice. Some people have been dealt a very bad hand in life through no fault of their own - I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I understand what you're saying, but... I paid attention at school, went to college, then night school whilst working to pay for it, forewent (is that a word?) holidays and the like to save for a deposit for a house (zero help from parents - I too was a teenager that decided to walk away one day and found a room to rent while I get myself sorted), to ensure I put myself in as good a position as I could for life.
Now, 15 years later, I'm not in the slightest bit rich, my mortgage is big, I haven't had a holiday in some years and my car is getting old, and I'm just about keeping my head above the water, no savings, no big fund for when I hit 40 and want to extend the house, or have a child, get married, or get a tattoo or a new pushbike etc. But, if I DO lose my job, I've got enough overpayments to keep me going for a couple of years, everything else is paid off, no loans for anything except the mortgage. I've never been out of work, never had a cash job, or tried to avoid paying my taxes. I'm bent over by the NHS because I work. (An example: My eyes are very bad, around -14 or -15 diopter. If I didn't pay for my glasses, I'd need a carer to help me cross a road, cook, or even have a pee. But because I work, ALL my fees are charged to me. I don't get a penny from the NHS. This isn't a complaint, but a justification.)
So, why should I feel guilty about keeping what's left of my money in my pocket, and not giving it to someone who decided to laugh off school, not bother with exams, live off "the social" etc, when I walk past the down-and-outs every day and hear them talking, loudly and in the street, for example about how "It's lovely when you smoke it" - WHATEVER could they be talking about?! The same people who sit next to a cash machine and pester every single person using the machine for money. AFAIAC, they really ARE scum. I also realise they probably think exactly the same about me, and would be robbing my car if I left a fiver on display in the ashtray. These aren't ex-forces, or timid elderly gents who have found themselves there through society stitching them up. If anything, they're the ones doing the stitching up of society.
Bleeding hearts are not a cure-for-all.
Some homeless are life's dropouts, some are there through no fault of their own.
sleep envy said:
WinstonWolf said:
OpulentBob said:
OzzyR1 said:
In the past, me and the OH have helped out at a shelter one of our friends volunteers at when they need extra pairs of hands. If some posters here could lower themselves to talk to folks on the streets, they might realise a lot aren't just there to get some free soup, its because they are as far down the "ladder of society" as it gets and can't see a way out. Many are ex-forces who left the services and now cannot find a job because they don't possess the requisite GCSE or other qualifications - probably why they joined up in the first place. On leaving, they find they have nowhere to go. I've met others who had decent jobs, lost them in the recession, split from the wife who kept the house and joint account and found themselves with no money and no future in the space of a few weeks. Won't even go into those who have mental issues or teenagers who ran away from home because life was so bad there they felt they had no other choice. Some people have been dealt a very bad hand in life through no fault of their own - I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
I understand what you're saying, but... I paid attention at school, went to college, then night school whilst working to pay for it, forewent (is that a word?) holidays and the like to save for a deposit for a house (zero help from parents - I too was a teenager that decided to walk away one day and found a room to rent while I get myself sorted), to ensure I put myself in as good a position as I could for life.
Now, 15 years later, I'm not in the slightest bit rich, my mortgage is big, I haven't had a holiday in some years and my car is getting old, and I'm just about keeping my head above the water, no savings, no big fund for when I hit 40 and want to extend the house, or have a child, get married, or get a tattoo or a new pushbike etc. But, if I DO lose my job, I've got enough overpayments to keep me going for a couple of years, everything else is paid off, no loans for anything except the mortgage. I've never been out of work, never had a cash job, or tried to avoid paying my taxes. I'm bent over by the NHS because I work. (An example: My eyes are very bad, around -14 or -15 diopter. If I didn't pay for my glasses, I'd need a carer to help me cross a road, cook, or even have a pee. But because I work, ALL my fees are charged to me. I don't get a penny from the NHS. This isn't a complaint, but a justification.)
So, why should I feel guilty about keeping what's left of my money in my pocket, and not giving it to someone who decided to laugh off school, not bother with exams, live off "the social" etc, when I walk past the down-and-outs every day and hear them talking, loudly and in the street, for example about how "It's lovely when you smoke it" - WHATEVER could they be talking about?! The same people who sit next to a cash machine and pester every single person using the machine for money. AFAIAC, they really ARE scum. I also realise they probably think exactly the same about me, and would be robbing my car if I left a fiver on display in the ashtray. These aren't ex-forces, or timid elderly gents who have found themselves there through society stitching them up. If anything, they're the ones doing the stitching up of society.
Bleeding hearts are not a cure-for-all.
Some homeless are life's dropouts, some are there through no fault of their own.
DoubleSix said:
Like I said. You're in search of a single explanation for a multifaceted issue. You just have to accept each case is different.
We can discuss examples such as the businessman who's wife left and moved away with the new partner and kids, the heroine addict who's parents have disowned them after he burgled their house or the teenager who was abused by her father. To some extent it really doesn't matter. It may seem unfathomable for you but some people really do have no one.
I fully appreciate that some people have nobody to turn to because of their addiction to drugs or alcohol & they may have stolen from family members etc to feed their habbit. I understand this but it's the one's who would appear to have a decent upbringing & decent life up until it all goes wrong for them like ex service men/women who I keep mentioning, I fail to understand why these people are homeless because surely they do have family out there who could help? I have never come across anyone serving in the forces having absolutely zero family (I was born & raised with the army so this is why I say this)We can discuss examples such as the businessman who's wife left and moved away with the new partner and kids, the heroine addict who's parents have disowned them after he burgled their house or the teenager who was abused by her father. To some extent it really doesn't matter. It may seem unfathomable for you but some people really do have no one.
boobles said:
I fully appreciate that some people have nobody to turn to because of their addiction to drugs or alcohol & they may have stolen from family members etc to feed their habbit. I understand this but it's the one's who would appear to have a decent upbringing & decent life up until it all goes wrong for them like ex service men/women who I keep mentioning, I fail to understand why these people are homeless because surely they do have family out there who could help? I have never come across anyone serving in the forces having absolutely zero family (I was born & raised with the army so this is why I say this)
May I suggest that you start by looking at http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_cam... to give some idea of how people become homeless.There's a big gulf between homelessness and being a live-on-the-streets dropout, but if you find yourself homeless AND you find it hard to access benefits AND you have few, if any, marketable skills, then it's very easy to get sucked into a seemingly unbreakable cycle. Some have mental issues that cause them to be on the margins of society, others develop them as a result of living on the street.
And yes, some people use drugs or alcohol to try and escape from that world. Maybe I would, if I were unlucky enough to be in that situation.
It's all too easy to shut your eyes and pretend that those you see living on the streets in clearly appalling conditions are all coining it and spending the winter living in Miami ..... far easier than confronting the fact that there are a lot of people who need help.
So I carry on giving to those who look like they need it. Maybe I get conned some of the time, but I'd rather that than entirely harden my heart believe that every person is a con artist and just walk on by.
I really think there are some people on here should go and read a book.
"A Street Cat named Bob".
Easy read, you should be able to read it in about three hours.
Or one of the others, "The World according to Bob", or the new one, "A Gift from Bob".
Then come back and tell me it couldn't happen to you, or someone you know.
I was on the way to the signing in Nottingham on Tuesday, because of the books, I went up to a Big Issue seller to buy a copy to read while I was in the queue. I told him he'd picked a good morning for it, as it had only just stopped raining. "Yeah, but I'm still soaked through from yesterday". His jeans , trainers and socks were absolutely soaked. I paid him for the copy, and toddled off. I got fifty yards up the road and thought, Sod it. I went back and gave him £30 to get some dry trainers and socks. He was completely knocked sideways, even asked if I wanted a Big Issue!.
I don't give to all and sundry, in fact I don't give anything if people approach me, or ask.
But if you think you can help out, why not?
"A Street Cat named Bob".
Easy read, you should be able to read it in about three hours.
Or one of the others, "The World according to Bob", or the new one, "A Gift from Bob".
Then come back and tell me it couldn't happen to you, or someone you know.
I was on the way to the signing in Nottingham on Tuesday, because of the books, I went up to a Big Issue seller to buy a copy to read while I was in the queue. I told him he'd picked a good morning for it, as it had only just stopped raining. "Yeah, but I'm still soaked through from yesterday". His jeans , trainers and socks were absolutely soaked. I paid him for the copy, and toddled off. I got fifty yards up the road and thought, Sod it. I went back and gave him £30 to get some dry trainers and socks. He was completely knocked sideways, even asked if I wanted a Big Issue!.
I don't give to all and sundry, in fact I don't give anything if people approach me, or ask.
But if you think you can help out, why not?
Edited by mrmaggit on Friday 17th October 18:16
DoubleSix said:
boobles said:
The thing I can never understand is where are other family members when things are going horribly wrong? Injured ex service men/women who end up with nothing or people who have gone through a devorce etc, where are other family members? Do they even realize that their loved ones are living like this?
Jesus H.I think this post neatly demonstrates just how removed from the realties of 'life' some on here are.
Some people don't have loved ones. Some people are abused in horrendous ways by the very people that are supposed to be protecting them through life. Some people lose their loved ones to drugs, alcoholism, crime....
Some people are ALONE in this life and have no one who would even bat an eye if they ceased to exist.
Sorry if my post seems blunt but really, if you are over the age of 16 I'd expect this to be pretty common knowledge.
To all the posters on here smugly proclaiming "It could never happen to me because I'm too affluent/successful/well educated/have a network of family and friends" you really need to spend a week in my world and meet clients on my caseload who have fallen a VERY long way.
And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
jogger1976 said:
To all the posters on here smugly proclaiming "It could never happen to me because I'm too affluent/successful/well educated/have a network of family and friends" you really need to spend a week in my world and meet clients on my caseload who have fallen a VERY long way.
And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
No, it will happen to weak willed people who can't seek help. I have noted a strong pattern amongst the apologists in this thread.And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
BrabusMog said:
jogger1976 said:
To all the posters on here smugly proclaiming "It could never happen to me because I'm too affluent/successful/well educated/have a network of family and friends" you really need to spend a week in my world and meet clients on my caseload who have fallen a VERY long way.
And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
No, it will happen to weak willed people who can't seek help. I have noted a strong pattern amongst the apologists in this thread.And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
Do you really see entrepreneurs as weak willed?
What about the teacher I posted about who lost his entire family in a fire?
I'd say you've never faced real adversity in your entire life...
WinstonWolf said:
BrabusMog said:
jogger1976 said:
To all the posters on here smugly proclaiming "It could never happen to me because I'm too affluent/successful/well educated/have a network of family and friends" you really need to spend a week in my world and meet clients on my caseload who have fallen a VERY long way.
And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
No, it will happen to weak willed people who can't seek help. I have noted a strong pattern amongst the apologists in this thread.And before anyone says that they're all chavs from sink estates who couldn't be arsed at school, let me tell you that most, if not all, are either skilled trades people, (plumbers, carpenters, etc) professionals (dentists, accountants, engineers), or entrepreneurs and business owners.
Most have supportive, loving families, but feel ashamed and estrange themselves. Some due to ongoing mental ill health and self medication with drink and drugs, become dysfunctional and cannot manage themselves, or their relationships Eventually there job becomes too much, they fall behind with the rent/mortgage and are evicted.
Some manage to regain these relationships. Sadly many never do.
From this position, homelessness, however brief, is a real possibility
It can happen to anyone folks.
Do you really see entrepreneurs as weak willed?
What about the teacher I posted about who lost his entire family in a fire?
I'd say you've never faced real adversity in your entire life...
BrabusMog said:
No, it will happen to weak willed people who can't seek help. I have noted a strong pattern amongst the apologists in this thread.
Firstly,who said I was apologising?You clearly didn't read my earlier post. I stated quite clearly that most people on the streets, at least during the daytime, are addicts that are generally quite canny and manipulative individuals. I'd like to think that is a fact, backed up by 7 years working with such individuals on a daily basis, rather than an apology.
Secondly, my latest post quite clearly states that the majority of people who I work with and who happen to have found themselves homeless for the reasons I've already given, are NOT weak willed. I think it takes a fair bit of will power to complete a plumbing apprenticeship or set up your own business from scratch. In fact, many of these people struggle on for years trying to keep things together, before it all becomes too much.
But hey f
k em, cos there just weak willed any way,right?Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff