Relationship falling apart
Discussion
MentalSarcasm said:
Blown2CV said:
Is PND not at least partly explained by the fact that some parents (usually Mums) get so excited about babies and pregnancy, and just fail to really comprehend that there is a reality, and a reality which is really difficult, and your previous life just IS gone?
If that was the case then PND would primarily affect new mothers, in reality there are women who don't have PND with their first born, but then have it with their second, or sometimes their third.In reality I suspect that PND is increasing due to two massive factors;
1. Less local support network. In "the old days" people didn't move very far away, so a new Mum would be living at number 23, her Mum would be down at number 27, mother in law would be a street away and a sister or sister in law would be round the corner. That's three, potentially four, women with a great deal of experience in close proximity who would pop round an almost daily basis to check how Mum is doing and giving her a hand when needed. Nowadays most women are lucky if they have their Mum or mum-in-law within a 5 mile radius let alone two doors away.
2. The HUGE amount of conflicting information. The internet is great, but it's also terrible. "My baby has been crying for 3 hours solid, what do I do?", you can get answers from "it's normal" to "you're not feeding it enough" or "it could be really sick, take it to A&E" or flat out "if you can't tell then there's something wrong with your instincts, you're a terrible mother". Not to mention the whole breast feeding vs bottle feeding, cloth nappies vs disposable, slings vs prams, moses baskets and cots vs co-sleeping, etc etc etc.
Not saying that PND didn't happen 100 years ago, because it did, but I suspect the rates were lower then than they are now.
t above the actual informed thinking in every area. Dare I mention it's name................ Mumsnet??Many people isolate themselves away from the kids' grandparents, people have kids at hugely varying ages too so there isn't so much of a commonality between existing friendship groups, i.e. they aren't going through the same stages of parenting together.... then wonder why they feel f
king lonely and sad. Also many Mums are desperate to give up work but then hold bitter resentment after a while because they kind of dislike the life they've created, the loss of identity, career sacrifice, lack of adult contact... a lot of this seems to get directed at husbands because they're there at the time, and are seen as not doing enough to help (the flip-side of OP's experience, which may well come in future). In reality women are a fking nightmare, and it seems having kids hardens women to refuse decent advice before, during and after, but are happy to be swamped by st advice from stheads all over the Internet, and crock bullst stuff from their contemporaries.We are actively moving somewhere less rural before kids come along in order to create a better support network. We're not far from parents but Mrs 2CV would like to be closer. She seems very head-screwed-on, but I guess child-rearing can challenge even the most pragmatic and sensible women to become unreasonable, screeching harridans who you'll (hopefully fleetingly) wonder why you married, so we'll see!
Blown2CV said:
(PND)..... I think it's a social issue rather than a medical one, as with much of mood-related disorders.
I think that's bks. You dont 'get depressed' because you dont interact with people enough. You 'get depressed' and that forces you to reduce interaction with people. andy-xr said:
Blown2CV said:
(PND)..... I think it's a social issue rather than a medical one, as with much of mood-related disorders.
I think that's bks. You dont 'get depressed' because you dont interact with people enough. You 'get depressed' and that forces you to reduce interaction with people. If she has PND get that sorted straight away by medication and counselling etc. Its probably a touchy subject but try and get her on meds that have little impact on her libido! Mine went on some that helped her mood but caused friction due to lack of sex.
Wait until they are teething!
Wait until they are teething!
andy-xr said:
Blown2CV said:
(PND)..... I think it's a social issue rather than a medical one, as with much of mood-related disorders.
I think that's bks. You dont 'get depressed' because you dont interact with people enough. You 'get depressed' and that forces you to reduce interaction with people. ks, it might be a compounding effect but it's not the initial cause. Some of depression is purely biologically triggered, but most is catalysed by conditions, circumstances and how people live their lives. It's reductionist to say it's caused by X though. Perhaps there is something in females than make them get super-excited about stuff, and then it's a long way to fall. Weddings, babies, new houses... they've all got to have something to look forward to and then are in a way gutted when it finally arrives.Blown2CV said:
andy-xr said:
Blown2CV said:
(PND)..... I think it's a social issue rather than a medical one, as with much of mood-related disorders.
I think that's bks. You dont 'get depressed' because you dont interact with people enough. You 'get depressed' and that forces you to reduce interaction with people. ks, it might be a compounding effect but it's not the initial cause. Some of depression is purely biologically triggered, but most is catalysed by conditions, circumstances and how people live their lives. It's reductionist to say it's caused by X though. Perhaps there is something in females than make them get super-excited about stuff, and then it's a long way to fall. Weddings, babies, new houses... they've all got to have something to look forward to and then are in a way gutted when it finally arrives.Or child-rearing.
Blown2CV said:
i don't think it is bks, it might be a compounding effect but it's not the initial cause. Some of depression is purely biologically triggered, but most is catalysed by conditions, circumstances and how people live their lives. It's reductionist to say it's caused by X though. Perhaps there is something in females than make them get super-excited about stuff, and then it's a long way to fall. Weddings, babies, new houses... they've all got to have something to look forward to and then are in a way gutted when it finally arrives.
Mate, stop. For you own good, just stop for a second, look around and try and put yourself in someone elses shoes, rather than keep digging into the misogynistic pit you've got your head inks, it might be a compounding effect but it's not the initial cause. Some of depression is purely biologically triggered, but most is catalysed by conditions, circumstances and how people live their lives. It's reductionist to say it's caused by X though. Perhaps there is something in females than make them get super-excited about stuff, and then it's a long way to fall. Weddings, babies, new houses... they've all got to have something to look forward to and then are in a way gutted when it finally arrives.Blown2CV said:
I hear women just get so giddy about it.......and I do want to shake them a bit.
Then you might work out why a physical response to an emotion isnt at all appropriate. Neither is saying 'snap out of it' Edited by andy-xr on Monday 20th October 17:18
I think that you need to understand where you fit in to the new situation.
When ours were small then wife becomes number one carer, and I slotted into the role of support carer.
Do the stuff like getting supplies from the shops when needed, give her emotional support when needed.
Offer to do feeds and bath, but if she wants to do it then let her.
When ours were small then wife becomes number one carer, and I slotted into the role of support carer.
Do the stuff like getting supplies from the shops when needed, give her emotional support when needed.
Offer to do feeds and bath, but if she wants to do it then let her.
Ho hum, another day, another drama.
My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
Oakey said:
Ho hum, another day, another drama.
My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
She sounds like a real laugh - get rid! :-)My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
Mattknight1984 said:
Oakey said:
Ho hum, another day, another drama.
My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
She sounds like a real laugh - get rid! :-)My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
His boss will be really peed off if he sells his M3 while he is away.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Monday 20th October 18:53
Edited by Monkeylegend on Monday 20th October 18:54
She was never this negative before the baby and we rarely used to argue.
Given her car can't go more than 5miles before it overheats and starts blowing steam (went into the garage today) you'd think she'd jump at the opportunity for us to be able to actually go somewhere. I think she took more pleasure in wiping the grin off my face.
Can't get my head around it and now all I can think is "WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO IT?!!"
Given her car can't go more than 5miles before it overheats and starts blowing steam (went into the garage today) you'd think she'd jump at the opportunity for us to be able to actually go somewhere. I think she took more pleasure in wiping the grin off my face.
Can't get my head around it and now all I can think is "WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS TO IT?!!"
Oakey said:
Ho hum, another day, another drama.
My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
A whole week away with a new baby is probably a bit daunting, and to be honest, not a good idea as your missus will be out of her comfort zone even more than she currently is.My boss is going away for two weeks and has given me use of his new M3 whilst he's gone, put me on his insurance, the lot. He said "go away somewhere in it for the week with your family".
I told my other half this and was promptly met with derision;
"how we supposed to go anywhere with a baby?"
"how will we get the baby in it? I'm not pissing about juggling car seats around"
"why is he letting you borrow it?"
"isn't he worried something will happen to it?"
"where you going to park it?"
Sigh.
Why not just go out for the evening, taking baby with you? Don't know where you are but something like drive to the coast and get Fish n Chips, or go for a walk on the moors/woods/cliffs.
Small babies are actually pretty easy to take out (my youngest went to a fortieth birthday party at age 42 hours). She will probably sleep in the car, and then can be pram/carry/buggy. By not going to a restaurant you get away from the social awkwardness if she is crying/needs attention.
Oakey said:
It didn't have to literally be a week away, but we now have the opportunity to go out further afield without the worry the car is going to die a death.
We managed to have 2 kids from newborn to 2yrs old driving around in an e46 convertible, iso fix seats, 2 seater I candy peach in the boot, plus luggage for the weekend. The car should not be an issue.The exchange you reported is just what we have been saying. Cars, fun (especially for you) complex thought, weeks away etc are not on your mrs' mind in the slightest right now.
Take your bosses car anyway, go for some drives by yourself if she's not interested. I'me sure she could persuaded to come out for a spin, then take it from there.
It sounds like you are expecting her to have a row with you a bit as well? Hard tho it feels, and given all what we have said, this should now be washing over you. Also, have you not actually talked to her about this together? Ask her what she wants you to do?
It's not good advice,but I used to quietly start singing "...here comes Mumzilla!" on the odd occasion Mrs P started to get a bit extreme and we'd have a bit of a laugh. I would not recommend humour if you're not 100% sure about things but it did remind her if things were getting out of hand.
Nah, we're not heading for a row, she's just very negative. I don't know where it's come from. Like if she's struggling with the baby and I make a suggestion she'll just dismiss it and insist it won't work without even trying. Then there's other things, for example if she's struggling to get him to sleep and I try, if he immediately settles and goes right to sleep instead of being happy he's nodded off she seems even more angrier, as if she resents that I was able to get him to sleep when she couldn't.
Oakey said:
Nah, we're not heading for a row, she's just very negative. I don't know where it's come from. Like if she's struggling with the baby and I make a suggestion she'll just dismiss it and insist it won't work without even trying. Then there's other things, for example if she's struggling to get him to sleep and I try, if he immediately settles and goes right to sleep instead of being happy he's nodded off she seems even more angrier, as if she resents that I was able to get him to sleep when she couldn't.
I hear you. I think mothers through peer and other pressure feel that they should be the ultimate "this is how it is done"... and resentment can come when anyone (father, grandparent, sister) through good intentions tries something else that then works. The internet and many parenting books don't help. We threw all of ours away, aside from this one: http://www.thewonderweeks.comIt shares/explains various development leaps for babies based on many observations and suggest no right answers or methods - it just tries to show why you get particular behaviours in particular weeks. No rocket science but it did help a bit and tracked surprisingly well to our daughter.
Many mums in my experience are trying to live up to an ideal rather than the reality - which is every baby is different; some approaches work, some don't. Yesterday my daughter would not come near me (18 months) - howled and screamed until mum was there. Today - wants to play, build towers and giggle like a lunatic. Not interested in mum; wanted to build more towers and play with dad.
No right answers; lots of patience, positivity and do stuff together rather than either/or. Relax and be chilled is helpful. If relatives are nearby then great - they can wash up, bring dinner, make tea, clean, not "show you how it is done"
schmalex said:
This. Post Natal Depression can affect both men and women. Recognise it and see someone who can help.
I remember when we had our lad, the first 6 months were very difficult indeed, as my wife, quite rightly, put 100% of her efforts into focussing on him. It took a fair while to establish a rhythm that worked for all of us. We went through some tough times, but have been rewarded by now having a truly delightful 11yr old who is polite, articulate, kind, generous, fun and simply brilliant to be around.
Having a child changes everything and you have to work at re-establishing an equilibrium. Don't give up after 7 weeks. Support your wife. Realise that, for the time being, you are rated somewhere below the goldfish in order of importance, but understand why and do everything you can to help her with the new person that she is 100% responsible for.
Indeed. Since the outburst at the weekend I've taken in a lot of the advice given on here.I remember when we had our lad, the first 6 months were very difficult indeed, as my wife, quite rightly, put 100% of her efforts into focussing on him. It took a fair while to establish a rhythm that worked for all of us. We went through some tough times, but have been rewarded by now having a truly delightful 11yr old who is polite, articulate, kind, generous, fun and simply brilliant to be around.
Having a child changes everything and you have to work at re-establishing an equilibrium. Don't give up after 7 weeks. Support your wife. Realise that, for the time being, you are rated somewhere below the goldfish in order of importance, but understand why and do everything you can to help her with the new person that she is 100% responsible for.
My fiancée is fine. I've been the problem.
It's hard to explain, but my issue has been nothing to do with ego or status in the family. I'm quite happy to be the dad there to offer support when needed. I don't want to be the centre of attention or be treated as the most important person in the house. I guess I got scared and snapped. Fear can do all sorts of things to you. I've been scared about doing something wrong or just scared of our little baby in general.
This thread has been very helpful so thankyou all.
To those who have simply said 'man the f
k up', what do you think this thread has been about. I've admitted I've had problems and have asked for help in order to sort these out. Oakey said:
Nah, we're not heading for a row, she's just very negative. I don't know where it's come from. Like if she's struggling with the baby and I make a suggestion she'll just dismiss it and insist it won't work without even trying. Then there's other things, for example if she's struggling to get him to sleep and I try, if he immediately settles and goes right to sleep instead of being happy he's nodded off she seems even more angrier, as if she resents that I was able to get him to sleep when she couldn't.
I think most blokes on here who've got kids can relate to what you're saying - it does get better & it does get easier. If this is your first, then a year ago you could pretty much do what you wanted when you wanted.Weekend away? Not a problem - get a last minute break booked for a nice hotel for the 2 of you. Bugger off on Friday after work and spend the weekend getting sloshed, reading the papers and going for walks. And shagging. Lots of shagging.
Now however, a trip to see some friends for 2 hours to have Sunday lunch will involve change mats, nappies, spare babygrows, milk bottles made up, car seats, buggy, toys, nap times, the baby invariably s
tting itself then covering your missus with sick just before you head out the door etc etc.When you get home from work, forget telling her about how much of a nobhead John in Accounts is, and how Sue in HR is definitely shagging Steve from Sales. Your missus has been with a baby all day and is probably pissed off and looking to vent a bit. You telling her how interesting your day has been when her day has been changing nappies and a crying baby will make her feel worse. Make her a brew and let her tell you about her day. Don't offer her advice on how she should be doing things or someone from work has told you a better way & she's doing it wrong. Definitely do not say "I told Jane how you were struggling getting Baby Oakey to sleep" as she'll feel like a failure and that you're discussing her behind her back.
Unfortunately, despite all the books you can buy, babies don't have instruction manuals and lets be honest, blokes [i]love[/] instruction manuals so with you out at work it's your missus that has to work out how this 8lb pink lump works.
It's not only you that's missing your old life at the moment - I imagine your missus is probably feeling the same way. New babies take a lot from you but give little back.
I promise you it does get better though - my son is nearly 7 and is loads of fun now. Bloody pain in the backside at times, but still loads of fun.
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