Weird occurences, coincidences, deja vu, supernatural.
Discussion
Morningside said:
Made me go rather cold.
Cold?I'd be happy. I have a disproportionate love of coincidences. Makes me feel a bit of a lunatic, but when things like that happen I enjoy it and want to tell people who aren't as interested as I think they should be.
Basically I am saying that I've got your back here, but everyone else thinks you're a bit boring and silly.
rhinochopig said:
When I was doing mountain rescue we were called out to search for a missing person who'd been lost on the moors for 24hrs. The story made the local news and a psychic called the police and told them that she'd had a very clear vision that missing person was lost in a particular area of moorland and gave a very clear description of the area and where we could find the person.
So we relocated to the area predicted by the psychic, as we'd had no luck so far and were running out of places to search, and what was really very spooky was that just as we climbed out of the landrovers to start the search the missing person turned up - 40 odd miles away at a mates house. True story that! Gives me the shivers still thinking about it.
So we relocated to the area predicted by the psychic, as we'd had no luck so far and were running out of places to search, and what was really very spooky was that just as we climbed out of the landrovers to start the search the missing person turned up - 40 odd miles away at a mates house. True story that! Gives me the shivers still thinking about it.
LOL moment in the office. You'll get me into trouble you will!rhinochopig said:
When I was doing mountain rescue we were called out to search for a missing person who'd been lost on the moors for 24hrs. The story made the local news and a psychic called the police and told them that she'd had a very clear vision that missing person was lost in a particular area of moorland and gave a very clear description of the area and where we could find the person.
So we relocated to the area predicted by the psychic, as we'd had no luck so far and were running out of places to search, and what was really very spooky was that just as we climbed out of the landrovers to start the search the missing person turned up - 40 odd miles away at a mates house. True story that! Gives me the shivers still thinking about it.
The psychics eyes weren't glowing as they were telling the police where to look were they?So we relocated to the area predicted by the psychic, as we'd had no luck so far and were running out of places to search, and what was really very spooky was that just as we climbed out of the landrovers to start the search the missing person turned up - 40 odd miles away at a mates house. True story that! Gives me the shivers still thinking about it.
not sure if this qualifies.I had a bad accident on the motorway many years ago I was rear ended in my motor home then hit again on the side which flipped us over. the noise was horrific and there was a point where I thought I was going to kiss my arse good bye.
But there was a moment when everything went quiet and calm I don't know how long it lasted but when it was over I found myself with my right ear adjacent to the tarmac.the windscreen had gone and I just wanted to get out before we were hit again so I got my passenger out who was basically above me then I got myself out.
The site was spectacular with very little left of my motorhome.
We had NO injuries not even a scratch.I didn't see a bright light or a tunnel but I often wonder what that "moment" was
But there was a moment when everything went quiet and calm I don't know how long it lasted but when it was over I found myself with my right ear adjacent to the tarmac.the windscreen had gone and I just wanted to get out before we were hit again so I got my passenger out who was basically above me then I got myself out.
The site was spectacular with very little left of my motorhome.
We had NO injuries not even a scratch.I didn't see a bright light or a tunnel but I often wonder what that "moment" was
DeuxCentCinq said:
Stop editing stuff after you've posted it.
That edit was done 13 minutes after I first pressed submit. Are you suggesting I had some kind of premonition that I'd need to add the bit about cold reading?For the record, I'd noticed I spelled "drawer" as "draw" so changed it.
Anyway - enough with the thread derailment... back to the loonies and the sceptics.
Edited by Landlord on Wednesday 14th January 16:34
Edited by Landlord on Wednesday 14th January 16:38
Edited by Landlord on Wednesday 14th January 16:41
johnxjsc1985 said:
not sure if this qualifies.I had a bad accident on the motorway many years ago I was rear ended in my motor home then hit again on the side which flipped us over. the noise was horrific and there was a point where I thought I was going to kiss my arse good bye.
But there was a moment when everything went quiet and calm I don't know how long it lasted but when it was over I found myself with my right ear adjacent to the tarmac.the windscreen had gone and I just wanted to get out before we were hit again so I got my passenger out who was basically above me then I got myself out.
The site was spectacular with very little left of my motorhome.
We had NO injuries not even a scratch.I didn't see a bright light or a tunnel but I often wonder what that "moment" was
Science explains: http://www.livescience.com/2117-time-slow-emergenc...But there was a moment when everything went quiet and calm I don't know how long it lasted but when it was over I found myself with my right ear adjacent to the tarmac.the windscreen had gone and I just wanted to get out before we were hit again so I got my passenger out who was basically above me then I got myself out.
The site was spectacular with very little left of my motorhome.
We had NO injuries not even a scratch.I didn't see a bright light or a tunnel but I often wonder what that "moment" was
Landlord said:
Anyway. Your "disproving" seems to simply be "everyone has leather bound bibles" and "everyone has strange hammers" which, for me, isn't really fair or true. Then the old "cold reading" card comes in to play but with no explanation of how cold reading works and would work in this case. Your offerings are as valid as someone saying "it's definitely psychic" - that is, they're without any real foundation.
As I said in my original post, I am sceptical personally but at a loss to explain that one experience. I offered the story in the hope that someone could indeed explain it but as yet no one has.
I never once said that I've met the only psychic in the entire history of the world who was indeed psychic nor any other hyperbole to that effect. I wanted reasoned explanations or opinions rather than scoffing generalisations.
If you tell a 100 people that their grandparents had 'a leather-bound bible and a handmade hammer', then a certain percentage are going to go home and find out that is true and be wowed by your astonishing psychic powers, and they are going to tell everyone they know about it, and a certain percentage of them are going to come and visit you and give you money. Cold reading works by using statistically likely scenarios to make relatively generic statements which will 'hit' a certain number of people.As I said in my original post, I am sceptical personally but at a loss to explain that one experience. I offered the story in the hope that someone could indeed explain it but as yet no one has.
I never once said that I've met the only psychic in the entire history of the world who was indeed psychic nor any other hyperbole to that effect. I wanted reasoned explanations or opinions rather than scoffing generalisations.
Edited by Landlord on Wednesday 14th January 12:46
If the hit rate is only 1 or 2 in 10, it still means you are likely to make money, as the people who think this is evidence of supernatural powers are likely to be the same people who will wrap their own ego and identity around what you are saying (especially as they may have emotional issues such as grief already clouding their judgement) and will be steadfast in their attempts to tie whatever you are saying to their own experience. These people, known in the trade as 'marks' are then going to give you a healthy living.
The 8 or 9 in 10 who discover their grandparents did not own a bible or hammer which fits the description are simply going to forget about the experience, and are unlikely to go around telling everyone how wrong the psychic is, thus are not particularly bad for business.
Various studies have shown the power of cold-reading, particularly Barnum statements that sound specific but are in fact extremely generic. Whilst as a society we are trying to be altruistic, as individuals we are inherently selfish, and so it is quite easy for people to take generic, subjective statements that they hear and twist them into uniquely personal insights.
An illustration of this is that you have already been given reasoned explanations as to what has happened, and yet you are still trying to make this a unique and inexplicable experience by minimizing those explanations.
mattmurdock said:
If you tell a 100 people that their grandparents had 'a leather-bound bible and a handmade hammer', then a certain percentage are going to go home and find out that is true and be wowed by your astonishing psychic powers, and they are going to tell everyone they know about it, and a certain percentage of them are going to come and visit you and give you money. Cold reading works by using statistically likely scenarios to make relatively generic statements which will 'hit' a certain number of people.
If the hit rate is only 1 or 2 in 10, it still means you are likely to make money, as the people who think this is evidence of supernatural powers are likely to be the same people who will wrap their own ego and identity around what you are saying (especially as they may have emotional issues such as grief already clouding their judgement) and will be steadfast in their attempts to tie whatever you are saying to their own experience. These people, known in the trade as 'marks' are then going to give you a healthy living.
The 8 or 9 in 10 who discover their grandparents did not own a bible or hammer which fits the description are simply going to forget about the experience, and are unlikely to go around telling everyone how wrong the psychic is, thus are not particularly bad for business.
Various studies have shown the power of cold-reading, particularly Barnum statements that sound specific but are in fact extremely generic. Whilst as a society we are trying to be altruistic, as individuals we are inherently selfish, and so it is quite easy for people to take generic, subjective statements that they hear and twist them into uniquely personal insights.
An illustration of this is that you have already been given reasoned explanations as to what has happened, and yet you are still trying to make this a unique and inexplicable experience by minimizing those explanations.
Interesting. Thanks.If the hit rate is only 1 or 2 in 10, it still means you are likely to make money, as the people who think this is evidence of supernatural powers are likely to be the same people who will wrap their own ego and identity around what you are saying (especially as they may have emotional issues such as grief already clouding their judgement) and will be steadfast in their attempts to tie whatever you are saying to their own experience. These people, known in the trade as 'marks' are then going to give you a healthy living.
The 8 or 9 in 10 who discover their grandparents did not own a bible or hammer which fits the description are simply going to forget about the experience, and are unlikely to go around telling everyone how wrong the psychic is, thus are not particularly bad for business.
Various studies have shown the power of cold-reading, particularly Barnum statements that sound specific but are in fact extremely generic. Whilst as a society we are trying to be altruistic, as individuals we are inherently selfish, and so it is quite easy for people to take generic, subjective statements that they hear and twist them into uniquely personal insights.
An illustration of this is that you have already been given reasoned explanations as to what has happened, and yet you are still trying to make this a unique and inexplicable experience by minimizing those explanations.
I still think a 10%-20% likelihood of deceased grandparents having both a leather bound bible and a home-made hammer is a bit of a stretch. Surely there are more generic things (like a gold carriage clock and a brooch or locket) that would be give a more reliable hit rate. I'm tempted to start a poll thread asking people whether their deceased grandparents owned both but I suspect there's a high likelihood of people saying yes just for s
ts and giggles.That said, I feel the need to say I am most definitely sceptical and slightly moreso after your post BUT I am still not convinced by the probability being great enough for a psychic to risk their "reputation" (most psychics, IME, are "recommended" by a friend/associate - therein lies another avenue what with friends/associates typically being similar people) on it when there are easier targets.
I've watched Derren Brown do his psychic thing and it was brilliant and, of course, he enthusiastically says that it's bulls
t and just psychology. I'd love to hear him - an expert - explain my experience. I don't suppose he posts on here does he?Landlord said:
I still think a 10%-20% likelihood of deceased grandparents having both a leather bound bible and a home-made hammer is a bit of a stretch. Surely there are more generic things (like a gold carriage clock and a brooch or locket) that would be give a more reliable hit rate. I'm tempted to start a poll thread asking people whether their deceased grandparents owned both but I suspect there's a high likelihood of people saying yes just for sts and giggles.
Were they the ONLY two things she mentioned, or were there more that have just been forgotten due to them not matching anything in your Grandparents' house?ts and giggles.Landlord said:
nteresting. Thanks.
I still think a 10%-20% likelihood of deceased grandparents having both a leather bound bible and a home-made hammer is a bit of a stretch. Surely there are more generic things (like a gold carriage clock and a brooch or locket) that would be give a more reliable hit rate. I'm tempted to start a poll thread asking people whether their deceased grandparents owned both but I suspect there's a high likelihood of people saying yes just for sts and giggles.
That said, I feel the need to say I am most definitely sceptical and slightly moreso after your post BUT I am still not convinced by the probability being great enough for a psychic to risk their "reputation" (most psychics, IME, are "recommended" by a friend/associate - therein lies another avenue what with friends/associates typically being similar people) on it when there are easier targets.
I've watched Derren Brown do his psychic thing and it was brilliant and, of course, he enthusiastically says that it's bullst and just psychology. I'd love to hear him - an expert - explain my experience. I don't suppose he posts on here does he?
He doesn't, but all of his published books will suggest reading the Ian Rowland book linked above. All of his 'mind-reading' stuff is based on those cold reading techniques. Based on a few innocuous questions to set the baseline, the 'psychic' will then decide which of the generic scenarios are best suited to a particular person, and lead with those. They will fail many more times than they succeed, but no-one really remembers the failures, whereas the successes will drive business from that person and any other suggestible people who hear their story.I still think a 10%-20% likelihood of deceased grandparents having both a leather bound bible and a home-made hammer is a bit of a stretch. Surely there are more generic things (like a gold carriage clock and a brooch or locket) that would be give a more reliable hit rate. I'm tempted to start a poll thread asking people whether their deceased grandparents owned both but I suspect there's a high likelihood of people saying yes just for s
ts and giggles.That said, I feel the need to say I am most definitely sceptical and slightly moreso after your post BUT I am still not convinced by the probability being great enough for a psychic to risk their "reputation" (most psychics, IME, are "recommended" by a friend/associate - therein lies another avenue what with friends/associates typically being similar people) on it when there are easier targets.
I've watched Derren Brown do his psychic thing and it was brilliant and, of course, he enthusiastically says that it's bulls
t and just psychology. I'd love to hear him - an expert - explain my experience. I don't suppose he posts on here does he?As religion shows, it seems to be a part of the human condition to want to believe in the afterlife or higher powers, and this can be a hard thing for people to shake, especially if they are emotionally vulnerable at the time. So their brain concocts links or rationalizations which make the generic story or statement seem more relevant for them. Derren Brown has directly used all of these techniques, including giving a single generic statement to multiple people, all of whom later swore it was an individual reading that perfectly described who they are.
To do this well is a skill just like any other skill, and some people are better at it than others.
Edited by mattmurdock on Wednesday 14th January 17:27
DeuxCentCinq said:
Landlord said:
I still think a 10%-20% likelihood of deceased grandparents having both a leather bound bible and a home-made hammer is a bit of a stretch. Surely there are more generic things (like a gold carriage clock and a brooch or locket) that would be give a more reliable hit rate. I'm tempted to start a poll thread asking people whether their deceased grandparents owned both but I suspect there's a high likelihood of people saying yes just for sts and giggles.
Were they the ONLY two things she mentioned, or were there more that have just been forgotten due to them not matching anything in your Grandparents' house?ts and giggles.Whereas, as ably demonstrated by your own story, if the hits are on slightly more obscure items they will be harder to deflect, and the person and others will be more hooked and more likely to boost the psychic's reputation and profits.
Landlord said:
BUT I am still not convinced by the probability being great enough for a psychic to risk their "reputation" (most psychics, IME, are "recommended" by a friend/associate - therein lies another avenue what with friends/associates typically being similar people) on it when there are easier targets.
I've often wondered why so called psychics spend so much time telling people stuff they already know that they enthusiastically then tell others about as proof of their "abilities", stuff that is possible to guess at after a bit of fishing and observation. Why pay someone to tell you obvious stuff about yourself that you already know? I suppose it just builds up the positive confirmation bias in case any of the predictions come true and/or makes it more likely to remember them. If you were told 3 predictions and nothing else and none came true, you would dismiss them totally. If you were told 10 things about yourself, 9 of which are to some degree true, you may be less sceptical about the 3 predictions not happening, maybe assuming that they just hadn't happened yet. You may also be more inclined to interpret near (or distant) misses as predictive hits.Edited by Shaolin on Wednesday 14th January 17:28
johnxjsc1985 said:
........But there was a moment when everything went quiet and calm I don't know how long it lasted but when it was over I found myself with my right ear adjacent to the tarmac.........I didn't see a bright light or a tunnel but I often wonder what that "moment" was
On my 59th skydive I was very hungover after an Xmas party at the jump centre I was at. I messed up the opening, spun over and got tangled in the lines, so much so that the canopy was basically unflyable and heading earthwards far faster than intended. I had to make a decision to either cut away, and open the reserve, or try to ride it in. I was terrified, as I was very low, time was of the essence, and I didn't know what to do.So, I cut away (which involved pulling a small pad to release the main chute entirely) and I then yanked on the reserve handle. Nothing happened, except the fear went away, I felt calm, it went silent, and it seemed to last for ages. I was at peace with the world and felt like I'd made my decision, and whatever happened next was up to fate. And gravity I guess.
Then the reserve chute opened with a crack, the noise of wind came back, I felt scared of the landing as reserves are always too bloody small for fatties like me....
I didn't jump again, just threw my chute in the packing sheds and left the jump centre, never to return.
Shaolin said:
I've often wondered why so called psychics spend so much time telling people stuff they already know that they enthusiastically then tell others about as proof of their "abilities", stuff that is possible to guess at after a bit of fishing and observation. Why pay someone to tell you obvious stuff about yourself that you already know? I suppose it just builds up the positive confirmation bias in case any of the predictions come true and/or makes it more likely to remember them. If you were told 3 predictions and nothing else and none came true, you would dismiss them totally. If you were told 10 things about yourself, 9 of which are to some degree true, you may be less sceptical about the 3 predictions not happening, maybe assuming that they just hadn't happened yet. You may also be more inclined to interpret near (or distant) misses as predictive hits.
I'd love to explain some of the psychological research/theories that explain why people are predisposed to believe in coincidences, the paranormal, misjudge risk and probabilities, but it seems that rather oddly, someone in charge of the work schedules has utterly fEdited by Shaolin on Wednesday 14th January 17:28
ked up and I have to spend half the afternoon unraveling the mess. The odd coincidence being that they fked up last week too and if I were a betting man, I'd be pretty confident they will fk up next week too. Its just psychology. Or if you prefer headology.
I am extremely sceptical of anyone going to psychics and such like, but one such individual who my mum saw once some years ago is surely worthy of a post. Due to my extreme scepticism, it was 10 years before my sister told me the story. The medium never took any money for her efforts (!), she just asked for money to be paid to her favourite charity. My mum was told beforehand it took so much out of the medium mentally, the medium only did a session a week.
The medium got the following right.
My grandma’s Christian name, not the one she was known as. Where she used to live spot on (the street in north Blackpool) and what she used to do for a living. The correct hip which she suffered pain with and why – rheumatism, and the fact she had complications with her diabetes, as well as my granddad.
The tragic circumstances of my dad’s death- including some tiny details that only 4 or 5 people (at the most) on this planet know about. This freaked my mum out there and then apparently. As well as his occupation at the time, and what he used to do prior to that.
A very good description of my sister’s very troublesome 2nd husband, including his country of origin and exact occupation. You would have to know us very well as a family to get that.
My sister’s name and what she does for a living. As well as the names and ages of her 3 sons. My name and what I do for a living.
And so on and so forth. Apparently my mum left mentally exhausted, vowed never to go again, and told only my sister about what had been said. With distinct instructions not to tell me!... so much for that promise….
This medium said she was always being talked to by the dead, and 2 or 3 years later had a nervous breakdown- thought to be caused by “the voices”. She was in the local hospital (where my mum worked) for what turned out to be her final few weeks. Many of the doctors had heard the rumours about the medium and were waiting for this “mad” old woman to start with her “the voices are talking to me” routine, and were rightly sceptical when nothing was said for many days until a number of them were in the room. She started talking to one of the senior consultants about the fact his dead father was “talking” to her.
At first the consultant scoffed at it, and then details came out which only his close family would know about. Needless to say he cleared the room of the medical staff, and spent over an hour with this woman. Afterwards he cancelled all his appointments and went home in tears. He was seriously rattled about it for a good few days. All present were told to keep their mouths shut – like that was going to happen! 15 years later - people at the hospital still talk about this event.
To my mind, this is well beyond cold reading, and if you had asked everyone my mum knows, I would be amazed if you would have got all that. So what was it?
Cool story bro…. etc…
The medium got the following right.
My grandma’s Christian name, not the one she was known as. Where she used to live spot on (the street in north Blackpool) and what she used to do for a living. The correct hip which she suffered pain with and why – rheumatism, and the fact she had complications with her diabetes, as well as my granddad.
The tragic circumstances of my dad’s death- including some tiny details that only 4 or 5 people (at the most) on this planet know about. This freaked my mum out there and then apparently. As well as his occupation at the time, and what he used to do prior to that.
A very good description of my sister’s very troublesome 2nd husband, including his country of origin and exact occupation. You would have to know us very well as a family to get that.
My sister’s name and what she does for a living. As well as the names and ages of her 3 sons. My name and what I do for a living.
And so on and so forth. Apparently my mum left mentally exhausted, vowed never to go again, and told only my sister about what had been said. With distinct instructions not to tell me!... so much for that promise….
This medium said she was always being talked to by the dead, and 2 or 3 years later had a nervous breakdown- thought to be caused by “the voices”. She was in the local hospital (where my mum worked) for what turned out to be her final few weeks. Many of the doctors had heard the rumours about the medium and were waiting for this “mad” old woman to start with her “the voices are talking to me” routine, and were rightly sceptical when nothing was said for many days until a number of them were in the room. She started talking to one of the senior consultants about the fact his dead father was “talking” to her.
At first the consultant scoffed at it, and then details came out which only his close family would know about. Needless to say he cleared the room of the medical staff, and spent over an hour with this woman. Afterwards he cancelled all his appointments and went home in tears. He was seriously rattled about it for a good few days. All present were told to keep their mouths shut – like that was going to happen! 15 years later - people at the hospital still talk about this event.
To my mind, this is well beyond cold reading, and if you had asked everyone my mum knows, I would be amazed if you would have got all that. So what was it?
Cool story bro…. etc…
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