Work harder, get a better car, bigger house blah blah blah

[edc]

Erudite geezer said:

Does anyone believe the adage that by working harder you can get a better car, bigger house etc?

Probably one of Clarkson's references.

I can see the relevance for self employed types or people running their own business, but I am salaried and don't see mega annual pay rises.

The hard work gets you some of a better reputation, more skills, more responsibility, more opportunity to progress, promotion, payment for recognition of achievement. There are thousands of people who earn a higher and higher salary year after year. Businesses will pay a certain amount for hard work in itself but will pay more for value delivered. If you are always doing the same job in the same company then you are unlikely to get the siginifcant jumps in salary.

[9mm]

Doesn't matter how hard some people work, they won't make serious money without a talent of some description. Only a few people will make really huge amounts by working for someone else so self employment is the best option for those without an Eton education who fancy being really wealthy.

The bigger question is what are you working for? To die rich the day after you retire? For your children to spunk it? Feck that.

One of the biggest lessons life has taught me is that you can't buy time. If you like working 24/7 seven days a week good luck to you but I've got myself into a position where I work when I want to. I'd rather be reading a book, watching a film, going for a walk or tinkering with a car than working (every day). It also means I have no desire to retire completely, unlike lots of people I know who can't wait to take their pension.

[TEKNOPUG]

If you aren't happy with your job/career - change.

Whenever I hear people bh and moan about their jobs, salaries, working hours/conditions, I just ask them why don't they leave? Why do they put up with it? Even if changing jobs/careers over night isn't possible, what are they actually doing to improve their lot - nothing? STFU then.

No one is ever going to pay you more money if they don't have to. If you want more money - ask for it. If you're told no, then leave and find a job that will pay you more. The easiest way to improve your pay, position, responsibility, grade, whatever, is to change jobs/companies.

Don't work hard, work smart. Don't spend less, earn more. If you aren't happy with anything in your life, make some effort to change it.

So no, I don't agree that working harder is the key to success (however you measure that at a personal level). It's a combination of effort and intelligence. If you're smart and switched on, you'll always be able to succeed (whether it's your career, finances, whatever), regardless of your background, qualifications etc. There are many, many people who work very hard in dead-end, unrewarding jobs because that lack neither the nouse or belief to improve their situation.

I would add though that I don't feel pressured to work hard or "succeed" because of aspirational demands in society. Everyone likes nice things but I don't think I've ever worked towards earning enough to be able to make a certain purchase. For me it's more about security. Having money is one less thing to worry about - not having money and by that I mean unable to pay for the basics like rent and food and very stressful. If someone gave me a trust fund paying £30k a year for life, I'd quit work tomorrow.

[Cotty]

Erudite geezer said:

Does anyone believe the adage that by working harder you can get a better car, bigger house etc?

From my experience you work hard, they just give you more work. fk them im out the door as soon as I can find a new job. Ill take a pay cut to do something less stressfull

[CBR JGWRR]

Love people, use things; That's what matters.

[NWTony]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I know this is supposed by be telling and inciteful and support the idea that the Mexican has things right and the powerful American CEO has got it wrong, but it doesn't hold water. If the Mexican followed the American's advice and built up his company etc etc until he could retire and relax and what have you, he could do it in complete comfort and security, wanting for nothing and never having to worry about the bills. If he continues to do it the way he is when the storm comes and smashes up his boat and house, he's screwed.

Seriously Manuel, plan for your future

[P-Jay]

It's true, but only half the story IMO.

In my experience if you come into work everyday and graft away, going the extra mile, or miles, doing the extra hours and giving more of yourself than you want to and just sit back and expect to be rewarded you'll be in for a long wait. That's the sort of BS employers love to shovel - "stick me with Kid, riches are just around the corner". I've seen too many people make their boss Rich only to get nothing but a postcard from the Caribbean when they've sold up and moved on.

Doesn't mean you have to be self-employed to make the money you want to make, just be honest with yourself about your skills and abilities and value them accordingly - see every review as a negotiation - if you've spent the last 12 months going through the motions and doing the bare minimum you've got nothing to negotiate with have you? But if you've spent the last 12 months performing miracles and if possible you can show your value in pounds and pence then you can justify more money without sounding like a unreasonable request - if all you get back is "you should be glad of a job at all" then find another one - but really if they're switched on, they'll know that if they don't pay you a bit more, someone else will - that sort of data makes a recruitment decision all but a 'no lose gamble'.

And that is how real economies are driven, and not by unsustainable housing bubbles.

Saying all that, Money isn't my biggest driver anymore - I love my job, the work/life balance is perfect and flexible, the work interesting and enjoyable and whilst I could do with earning a bit more really, my Boss and I have agreed on a pathway whereby we both earn more by growing the business and I trust him to stick to it.

[Foliage]

Work smarter, not harder. Doing extra hours over and above what your paid for gets you nothing, in fact to people like me look at you and think your unintelligent and unable to manage your work load correctly.

[pilchardthecat]

In the last few months I've realised that my career has probably gone as far as it's ever likely to. Hence putting even more effort and energy into climbing the greasy pole isn't really worth the investment.

I don't need a bigger house, and i'm quite happy with my car (for once) so I think i'll just milk it, spend time with my kids and worry about the size of my private sector pension pot

[crankedup]

Decide your own destiny. If you work for somebody else your destiny is not within you're control.

[Henry Fiddleton]

While I agree with a lot of "spend time doing things you love" school of thought, a few things to consider.

Work hard when you are young (under 30!), you will probably have a few missed opportunities. Meh.

But.. by 30 you should have positioned yourself into a decent enough position career wise.

Also, some foundations into a future asset (a property or two) and then you will be sorted at 30 ish.

At this stage, you've forgone expensive cars, expensive holidays, and perhaps a gap year travelling.

However, you should be at point to start doing the fun stuff now (no doubt someone will say you haven't lived/built stories/memories yet), however you can now start doing it AND have more disposable cash, yet be stable with assets.

Obviously it could go balls up, but take your chances.

I'm 31 at the end of this month - and worked my nuts off in my younger years. Much happier cruising now - and wouldn't fancy doing the "hard" work I did when I was younger.

More than happy to do the fun stuff now :-)

Even with 2 kids...

Oh and each to their own.

Edited by Henry Fiddleton on Wednesday 7th January 14:23

[RDMcG]

I agree, its to each his own.

However , I am struck by how little people really plan for the future.

I am 66, and the huge differences among my friends are amazing. We all started out in the same place ( I will eliminate inheritors), and of course, it was easier for the boomers. Yet, I am amazing how many people arrive at (say) 55 and wake up, realizing that they have maybe 30 years to go, and in many cases, having changed jobs often, just a vestigial pension. Some hare going to be just fine,academics, publics servants and the very successful who have good investment income. Others still have a mortgage at end of career pr think they can cash out of their homes and live on the proceeds. The latter works for this who move to a low cost location -maybe, but there is also the assumption that public services such as health will be like to good old days. With an ageing population the pressure on health services will be immense and the smaller working population will not want to be taxed to death to pay for the boomers.

That all assume of course, that nothing at all goes wrong...

I am not saying that people should not live and have a good time. No in the least. I certainly did, and do.
However, it is worthwhile thinking that a 30 year career might have to finance a 50-60 year timespan including surviving spouse.

[crankedup]

Its really very very tough out there in the world of work. Government unofficial policy to drive down the wages of working people in order that the U.K. becomes more competitive is understandable and sensible in the long term. Problem is we are not 'all in this together' the Company Boards still dip in for excessive remuneration awards year after year whilst workers get poorer year after year. I know I keep saying this and I will be flamed again for it. But the U.K. is now the most unequal Country in Europe regards population wealth.

[Otispunkmeyer]

P-Jay said:

It's true, but only half the story IMO.

In my experience if you come into work everyday and graft away, going the extra mile, or miles, doing the extra hours and giving more of yourself than you want to and just sit back and expect to be rewarded you'll be in for a long wait. That's the sort of BS employers love to shovel - "stick me with Kid, riches are just around the corner". I've seen too many people make their boss Rich only to get nothing but a postcard from the Caribbean when they've sold up and moved on.

Doesn't mean you have to be self-employed to make the money you want to make, just be honest with yourself about your skills and abilities and value them accordingly - see every review as a negotiation - if you've spent the last 12 months going through the motions and doing the bare minimum you've got nothing to negotiate with have you? But if you've spent the last 12 months performing miracles and if possible you can show your value in pounds and pence then you can justify more money without sounding like a unreasonable request - if all you get back is "you should be glad of a job at all" then find another one - but really if they're switched on, they'll know that if they don't pay you a bit more, someone else will - that sort of data makes a recruitment decision all but a 'no lose gamble'.

And that is how real economies are driven, and not by unsustainable housing bubbles.

Saying all that, Money isn't my biggest driver anymore - I love my job, the work/life balance is perfect and flexible, the work interesting and enjoyable and whilst I could do with earning a bit more really, my Boss and I have agreed on a pathway whereby we both earn more by growing the business and I trust him to stick to it.

I can see how putting the extra hours and effort when required can be useful and beneficial to your career. It can gain you some good rep and if your bosses are ok they may have you in mind for promotions or whatever. But on the flip side, you can bust a gut for someone and they'll simply take advantage. i.e. you'll do the work and work late and they wont have to hire another person or can tell a customer it'll be done quicker than competitor B can manage and take a bigger slice of the pie. Then they'll pass you up for promotion because you're too useful to move on from the job you're currently doing.

And agree on negotiating. A friend of mine has this down, he records everything he does and goes into these reviews with a clear message; "This is what I was asked to do, this is what I did and here are the results and here is how the results are above what was expected". He's got some good results out of this method. He's trying to show how he is more valuable than he was expected to be. He tries not to go in with the threat of jumping ship because someone else will pay him more.

[Jasandjules]

Work to the extent you need to have a lifestyle that makes you happy. It took me a while to work this out, before then I was working all the hours in an investment bank. Lovely bank account, but never spent the money because I was always in the office...

[jogger1976]

Jasandjules said:

Work to the extent you need to have a lifestyle that makes you happy. It took me a while to work this out, before then I was working all the hours in an investment bank. Lovely bank account, but never spent the money because I was always in the office...

I would agree with this as my uncle did this for many years.
He had the big house, new car, and a villa in Marbella.
However,it completely ruined his marriage, his relationship with his kids, and turned him into a miserable bd.
He eventually had a fatal heart attack while waiting for his train. He was only 53.

[meteorgt2]

Foliage said:

Work smarter, not harder. Doing extra hours over and above what your paid for gets you nothing, in fact to people like me look at you and think your unintelligent and unable to manage your work load correctly.

This.

Although probably not true I remember reading somewhere that a boss once hired someone based on his reply when asked what was his outstanding quality;

I'm lazy....... In that if there's an easier quicker more efficient way of doing something. I'll find it!!

[defblade]

People on this thread should really watch this programme on iplayer, if you missed it

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Foliage]

meteorgt2 said:

This.

Although probably not true I remember reading somewhere that a boss once hired someone based on his reply when asked what was his outstanding quality;

I'm lazy....... In that if there's an easier quicker more efficient way of doing something. I'll find it!!

Napoleon was supposed to have once explained to an inquirer, "There are four types of soldiers. The first are the dumb and lazy. These I make my infantrymen. The second are the smart and energetic. These I make my field commanders. The third type are the smart and lazy. These I make my generals."

The inquirer, then replied, "That's just three types. What of the dumb and energetic?"

Napoleon, without skipping a beat replied, "I have them shot."

[egomeister]

meteorgt2 said:

I'm lazy....... In that if there's an easier quicker more efficient way of doing something. I'll find it!!

In my last performance review I told that to my boss almost word for word, but I don't think he was quite as impressed at the interviewer in your example so it's perhaps not the best tactic.

Having said that I was also given targets in that review like "improve morale" which didn't exactly conform to the SMART criteria as suggested. I managed to achieve that one though, mainly via handing in my notice and starting working for myself