Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 3]

[walm]

Jobbo said:

Something I've genuinely always wanted to know the answer to, but never for long enough to try to find out: how do pump toothpaste dispensers work? They're clearly mechanical, the plunger works its way up the inside of the tube with nothing pushing it; surely the tiny amount of force you apply to the nozzle cover doesn't create a vacuum sufficient to pull that up incrementally? But it must. Is there some secret behind it?

Some guessing here but I am going to give it a try.

When you push down on the trigger TWO things happen.
You push something into the goo (let's call it a piston) which forces the toothpaste out of the top and onto your brush.
AND you compress a spring.

After you let go, the spring returns the trigger to its original position AND it pulls the piston back up to its resting place.
That pushing of the piston back up by the spring IS enough of a vacuum to ratchet up the base thing inside the tube.

And repeat.

So yes, the "tiny amount of force" is enough!

[Jobbo]

walm said:

Jobbo said:

Something I've genuinely always wanted to know the answer to, but never for long enough to try to find out: how do pump toothpaste dispensers work? They're clearly mechanical, the plunger works its way up the inside of the tube with nothing pushing it; surely the tiny amount of force you apply to the nozzle cover doesn't create a vacuum sufficient to pull that up incrementally? But it must. Is there some secret behind it?

Some guessing here but I am going to give it a try.

When you push down on the trigger TWO things happen.
You push something into the goo (let's call it a piston) which forces the toothpaste out of the top and onto your brush.
AND you compress a spring.

After you let go, the spring returns the trigger to its original position AND it pulls the piston back up to its resting place.
That pushing of the piston back up by the spring IS enough of a vacuum to ratchet up the base thing inside the tube.

And repeat.

So yes, the "tiny amount of force" is enough!

Strangely, I've now googled it and yours is the best explanation I can find online. Logically you must be correct, but the way the piston always moves upwards leaving no residue is like magic.

[glazbagun]

That was an excellent question. Like you say, one which I've thought a hundred times but never for long enough to find out. It's not every day that PH makes you cleverer but I leave this thread a wiser man.

Now to the youtube thread to watch some cats falling over.

[ashleyman]

Most stores have these 'Self Serve' checkouts now. I see less and less actual staff manning tills.


Why have prices not dropped considering there's less staff? I always use the manned tills to make sure I get my monies worth!

[walm]

ashleyman said:

Most stores have these 'Self Serve' checkouts now. I see less and less actual staff manning tills.


Why have prices not dropped considering there's less staff? I always use the manned tills to make sure I get my monies worth!

Prices are dropping.
There is a massive price war going on at the moment (caused by Aldi and Lidl) with significant deflation on top.
Just take a look at Tesco, Morrison and Sainsburys margins over the last couple of years.
They have been destroyed.
Any savings they get on automated tills or frankly ANYTHING they plough back into price.

Tesco literally today putting up +0.3% growth with volumes up c.2% - so pricing down -1.7%.

[ashleyman]

walm said:

Prices are dropping.
There is a massive price war going on at the moment (caused by Aldi and Lidl) with significant deflation on top.
Just take a look at Tesco, Morrison and Sainsburys margins over the last couple of years.
They have been destroyed.
Any savings they get on automated tills or frankly ANYTHING they plough back into price.

Tesco literally today putting up +0.3% growth with volumes up c.2% - so pricing down -1.7%.

Fair enough! I see on the receipts that part that says ' You saved XXX today'.

I take back what I said and will start using the self serves!!

[walm]

ashleyman said:

Fair enough! I see on the receipts that part that says ' You saved XXX today'.

I take back what I said and will start using the self serves!!

I wouldn't trust those "you saved XXX" propaganda though!!
It's all marketing.

Aldi and Lidl are still 15%-ish cheaper as far as anyone can tell (it's incredibly difficult to check like-with-like).
But if you are in a Tescos they are doing their best to compete.

It's interesting.
I met with some Lidl guys and their strategy is highly elegant.
They throw down stores as fast as they can... then, when the time is right, and they have enough volume... they go to the suppliers and demand a whopper discount.
Because they only buy ONE type of ketchup, (one size, one flavour) they can guarantee to be the biggest buyer.

Tesco may have far more shoppers but they have to stock 10 different types so aren't actually buying as much as Lidl.
And Lidl shoppers don't mind the limited selection because the price is so good.

I feel very sorry for the regular supermarkets... it is an impossible task to compete with the discounters.

[addz86]

scarble said:

addz86 said:

No cats, still surprised it manages to pop and bang in a cold exhaust though

Pretty sure the hotter minis are deliberately mapped to pop
Put the cat back you filthy antisocial oik you

Yeah they are, it's more the cold exhaust still managing to pop and bang.

Am I doing, it's too loud now so I can't hear the supercharger whining

[ashleyman]

walm said:

I wouldn't trust those "you saved XXX" propaganda though!!
It's all marketing.

Aldi and Lidl are still 15%-ish cheaper as far as anyone can tell (it's incredibly difficult to check like-with-like).
But if you are in a Tescos they are doing their best to compete.

It's interesting.
I met with some Lidl guys and their strategy is highly elegant.
They throw down stores as fast as they can... then, when the time is right, and they have enough volume... they go to the suppliers and demand a whopper discount.
Because they only buy ONE type of ketchup, (one size, one flavour) they can guarantee to be the biggest buyer.

Tesco may have far more shoppers but they have to stock 10 different types so aren't actually buying as much as Lidl.
And Lidl shoppers don't mind the limited selection because the price is so good.

I feel very sorry for the regular supermarkets... it is an impossible task to compete with the discounters.

My wife is starting to get the whole Aldi thing - I personally hate it because all they do is rip off the names and packaging designs of the real brands! It's hard to tell if some Aldi own brand is as good as the branded product.

Her strategy is buy as much as possible from Aldi that's on par with Tesco but cheaper. Then she'll go to Tesco and get all the stuff that's total junk in Aldi things like Ketchup and all those little bits that aren't as good as the proper stuff like Heinz for example. She'll also go to CostCo every 2 or 3 months and buy bulk stuff like cleaning products, toothpaste, toilet rolls, drinks and stuff. She stores all the bulk stuff and goes supermarket shopping once every 2 weeks.

I try not to get involved in the household shopping but she's spending about £40 a week on average which as I understand is not a lot of money for food for 2 people per week.

I'm lazy and go to Tesco if I need something that's run out as it's easy to drive, park and shop. I just always felt a bit silly to be paying the money for a product and then doing the whole self serve thing myself when built into the price of whatever I was buying was money for checkout staff.

[walm]

ashleyman said:

Her strategy is buy as much as possible from Aldi that's on par with Tesco but cheaper. Then she'll go to Tesco and get all the stuff that's total junk in Aldi things like Ketchup and all those little bits that aren't as good as the proper stuff like Heinz for example.

This is called "splitting the shop", it's a big behavioural shift for consumers and huge problem for the superstores.
And it's even worse when you consider the online potential.

You can stock up on the super cheap, decent quality stuff from a discounter.
Then you top-up urgent stuff or stuff you forgot at a convenience store (Tesco and Sainsburys are growing theirs fast) - and sadly these are LOWER profit than a superstore because of the higher rent.
OR even worse you get the better quality brands from the online offer from Tesco or Sainsbury where they actually make LOSSES!

[droopsnoot]

ashleyman said:

I personally hate it because all they do is rip off the names and packaging designs of the real brands!

This to me is the most annoying part of the food section of Aldi. I read that some of their food and drink products are at least as good as anything else, sometimes better, so I don't understand their need to make the packaging look like "proper" brands at first glance. Almost as if they feel they need to fool people into buying it, but different enough to not give them legal trouble.

[walm]

droopsnoot said:

This to me is the most annoying part of the food section of Aldi. I read that some of their food and drink products are at least as good as anything else, sometimes better, so I don't understand their need to make the packaging look like "proper" brands at first glance. Almost as if they feel they need to fool people into buying it, but different enough to not give them legal trouble.

I believe there are two factors here:
1. Comfort factor - people do care what the stuff looks like and they won't even try something that looks significantly different to the "norm". (And the food does very well in blind taste tests quite often - it is certainly better than the "value" ranges from the supermarkets.
2. They piggy back on the market research and branding done by the FMCG companies at vast expense. If people buy lots of Dove because it is in a white bottle then put your body wash in a white bottle - Unilever have done the research for you!

[popeyewhite]

droopsnoot said:

Almost as if they feel they need to fool people into buying it, but different enough to not give them legal trouble.

And then they reduce THEIR product by about 50%. Stinks of sharp practice - there's no getting round the fact you disguise your product to look similar to other, better, brands. It's copying to make money of others' success.

[SpeckledJim]

popeyewhite said:

droopsnoot said:

Almost as if they feel they need to fool people into buying it, but different enough to not give them legal trouble.

And then they reduce THEIR product by about 50%. Stinks of sharp practice - there's no getting round the fact you disguise your product to look similar to other, better, brands. It's copying to make money of others' success.

I would be very surprised if anyone buying Aldi Quixo gravy granules actually thinks they are buying Bisto.

And taste tests often say your contention of 'better' is incorrect. Just more expensive.

The colours and style of the packaging are similar, but I think that's as much shorthand to help people find the stuff on the shelf, as in aggregate, a row of 5 Quixos looks similar to a row of 5 Bistos.

But more than half a second looking at the label shows it clearly to be a different product.

I won't waste any energy worrying for the big brands and supermarkets - they have been up to enough sharp practice themselves.

[austinsmirk]

so bits of London are flooded. Pictures of people with their cars stuck in floodwater they've driven into.

would an insurance company pay out, when you have deliberately wrecked yr car, thinking you are invincible in a 4 x 4 ???

[FlyingMeeces]

ashleyman said:

walm said:

I wouldn't trust those "you saved XXX" propaganda though!!
It's all marketing.

Aldi and Lidl are still 15%-ish cheaper as far as anyone can tell (it's incredibly difficult to check like-with-like).
But if you are in a Tescos they are doing their best to compete.

It's interesting.
I met with some Lidl guys and their strategy is highly elegant.
They throw down stores as fast as they can... then, when the time is right, and they have enough volume... they go to the suppliers and demand a whopper discount.
Because they only buy ONE type of ketchup, (one size, one flavour) they can guarantee to be the biggest buyer.

Tesco may have far more shoppers but they have to stock 10 different types so aren't actually buying as much as Lidl.
And Lidl shoppers don't mind the limited selection because the price is so good.

I feel very sorry for the regular supermarkets... it is an impossible task to compete with the discounters.

My wife is starting to get the whole Aldi thing - I personally hate it because all they do is rip off the names and packaging designs of the real brands! It's hard to tell if some Aldi own brand is as good as the branded product.

If it's hard to tell, doesn't that probably mean it is as good?

I often suspect it's not just as good, but an identical product repackaged…

[ashleyman]

FlyingMeeces said:

If it's hard to tell, doesn't that probably mean it is as good?

I often suspect it's not just as good, but an identical product repackaged…

Some stuff I could taste the difference and didn't like it so we went back to the proper branded versions but a lot of the stuff I reckon is all made in the same place and just repackaged.

[popeyewhite]

SpeckledJim said:

I would be very surprised if anyone buying Aldi Quixo gravy granules actually thinks they are buying Bisto.

So would I

SpeckledJim said:

And taste tests often say your contention of 'better' is incorrect. Just more expensive.

I should have said 'established/well known'

SpeckledJim said:

The colours and style of the packaging are similar, but I think that's as much shorthand to help people find the stuff on the shelf, as in aggregate, a row of 5 Quixos looks similar to a row of 5 Bistos.

It has absolutely nothing to do with helping people 'find stuff on the shelf', and all to with undercutting the opposition by any means.

SpeckledJim said:

But more than half a second looking at the label shows it clearly to be a different product.

Most product placement in supermarkets is based on research that shows people take little time to choose anything. On the back of this the supermarkets design their products to look like other established/well known brands in the hope of leeching of the more successful brands.

SpeckledJim said:

I won't waste any energy worrying for the big brands and supermarkets - they have been up to enough sharp practice themselves.

Oh yes they're all at it... but it would be sad day for choice if all you could buy in Tesco/Sains was Tesco/Sains own products. In general they identify a product which is not their own yet sells well. They copy it in ingredients/taste and packaging and then undercut the better-selling product. Nowt wrong with that I suppose..unless you like a choice available to you. Oh and it stinks.

[schmunk]

austinsmirk said:

so bits of London are flooded. Pictures of people with their cars stuck in floodwater they've driven into.

would an insurance company pay out, when you have deliberately wrecked yr car, thinking you are invincible in a 4 x 4 ???

It's not quite deliberately, more recklessly, surely...?

[walm]

popeyewhite said:

Oh yes they're all at it... but it would be sad day for choice if all you could buy in Tesco/Sains was Tesco/Sains own products. In general they identify a product which is not their own yet sells well. They copy it in ingredients/taste and packaging and then undercut the better-selling product. Nowt wrong with that I suppose..unless you like a choice available to you. Oh and it stinks.

I don't think Unilever and P&G are going out of business just yet.
(Unlike the supermarkets...!)
Brands have always had to compete with own label, it's nothing new and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it - it certainly doesn't stink.
If anything there is MORE choice these days, not less.

When an own label product steps over the line, the brands sue them - as they should.

In any case, if you want them to continue to survive, supermarkets have to do these kinds of things.
ASDA is the one mostly focused on brands (ASDA own label is a disaster) and they are struggling the most.