Things you always wanted to know the answer to [Vol. 3]

[wildone63]

What is the thinking behind dealers propping up cars on these metal stand things on their forecourts?
Considering the amount of money these things must cost,are they supposed to show the car in a more favourable light to potential buyers as opposed to it just sitting on the ground or what?

[OldSkoolRS]

wildone63 said:

What is the thinking behind dealers propping up cars on these metal stand things on their forecourts?
Considering the amount of money these things must cost,are they supposed to show the car in a more favourable light to potential buyers as opposed to it just sitting on the ground or what?

It's so they can bump start it to save them putting a new battery on the car before sale.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Dr Jekyll said:

glazbagun said:

In principle I can't think of why the Soviets or North Koreans had to be poor, if they trade amongst themselves they can create wealth. So I wonder if it's a population thing instead.

It's communism thing. Russia was a fast growing economy in the years leading up to WW1, and compare North and South Korea.

P J O'Rourke used to joke that you could tell communism was bad because it even made Germans poor, but I think Korea is an even better example.

PJ O'Rourke also did another book exploring why some countries were poor and others rich, both socialist countries and rampant free-market capitalist places, with resources and without, I can't remember the title

basically, he reckoned rule of law is the difference, property rights etc

once the state or another set of crooks can just take things off you, you're poor

[bristolracer]

OldSkoolRS said:

wildone63 said:

What is the thinking behind dealers propping up cars on these metal stand things on their forecourts?
Considering the amount of money these things must cost,are they supposed to show the car in a more favourable light to potential buyers as opposed to it just sitting on the ground or what?

It's so they can bump start it to save them putting a new battery on the car before sale.

Its better than leaving the tailgate open in all weathers so your new car comes with the instant condensation feature on a cool day

[Balmoral]

bristolracer said:

OldSkoolRS said:

wildone63 said:

What is the thinking behind dealers propping up cars on these metal stand things on their forecourts?
Considering the amount of money these things must cost,are they supposed to show the car in a more favourable light to potential buyers as opposed to it just sitting on the ground or what?

It's so they can bump start it to save them putting a new battery on the car before sale.

Its better than leaving the tailgate open in all weathers so your new car comes with the instant condensation feature on a cool day

When Daewoo launched in the UK back in 1995 with their chain of wholly owned factory shops rather than a franchised dealer network, they had a terrific operations manual which focused on them being retailers not dealers.

NO balloons
NO bunting
NO flags
NO ramps
NO tail-gates open
NO sharp suits
NO sharp haircuts
NO sheepskin coats
NO interminable sucking in of air through teeth prior to quoting figures

[SpeckledJim]

Balmoral said:

When Daewoo launched in the UK back in 1995 with their chain of wholly owned factory shops rather than a franchised dealer network, they had a terrific operations manual which focused on them being retailers not dealers.

NO balloons
NO bunting
NO flags
NO ramps
NO tail-gates open
NO sharp suits
NO sharp haircuts
NO sheepskin coats
NO interminable sucking in of air through teeth prior to quoting figures

Very well-intentioned it was too, but customers NEEEEEEED to be allowed a haggle, so it didn't work.

Much as dealers are maligned/hated, they're oddly actually what people want.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 16th March 17:12

[98elise]

Dr Jekyll said:

StevieBee said:

So, where will the 'additional' income / money come from that enables an isolated country to experience economic growth?

If by income/money you mean wealth, from people providing goods and services and exchanging them. Just as on an isolated planet.

If you mean cash, then print it. There is the economic activity to back it up.

This. Money has no value. Fiat currency is just an accepted way of exchaning my time for your time without me needing to produce something you need. Our economy functions because we use a universal means of exchanging our time and effort.

Economic growth comes from being able to produce things people want more efficiently. Once we can cover our food and shelter needs then we can start buying luxury items etc.

Trading outside of your own country opens up other markets that might be able to do things even more efficiently, or provide more luxury goods.

[AstonZagato]

SpeckledJim said:

Balmoral said:

When Daewoo launched in the UK back in 1995 with their chain of wholly owned factory shops rather than a franchised dealer network, they had a terrific operations manual which focused on them being retailers not dealers.

NO balloons
NO bunting
NO flags
NO ramps
NO tail-gates open
NO sharp suits
NO sharp haircuts
NO sheepskin coats
NO interminable sucking in of air through teeth prior to quoting figures

Very well-intentioned it was too, but customers NEEEEEEED to be allowed a haggle, so it didn't work.

Much as dealers are maligned/hated, they're oddly actually what people want.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 16th March 17:12

I slightly disagree.

Dealers and haggling are what we have become conditioned to expect.

I'd much prefer to walk into a dealer and pay the price on the windscreen knowing that is the lowest possible price to purchase that vehicle. Unfortunately we all know that it isn't, so we all have to argue on price. It makes the whole process of purchasing cars unpleasant, tiresome and unsettling.

[Rostfritt]

TheLordJohn said:

Well I was sort of hoping the Tories would sort that out, but they've managed to get into twice as much debt as we were when they got in.
PS - I'm still not a Labour voter. I'd rather have a Tory government every time.

As a humble truck mechanic I lack the level of intelligence/education to understand why the Government can't stop borrowing, but i'd imagine it's something to do with too many people, in too small a space, and living/making promises beyond our means.
Not to mention a £110 BILLION annual NHS budget.
Childcare costs of £6 bn a year; more than the MOD budget.

I don't understand how they didn't manage to reduce the deficit with all the cuts they bought in. Might as well have kept the services while racking up the same debt.

Thing is you should really compare the debt to the assets of the country. We borrowed billions in the 60s and 70s, but built loads of motorways, schools and hospitals with that money. Now we seem to be spending at the same rate but not adding much to the net worth of the state, like getting private companies to build toll roads they own for several decades, or PPPs meaning we pay rent for schools and hospitals, while the old ones are sold off for their land.

The government can continue borrowing forever, because it can set it's own interest rates and print more money if it wanted to pay it back. Government debt isn't just some amount owed to a few banks, it is in many forms, like bonds, perpetuities, national savings deposits, premium bonds. If the government gets a tax windfall, like when 3G radio spectrum was sold off, they can buy back bonds to eliminate them.

Also debt exceeding GDP is kind of a meaningless comparison. Debt is forever, GDP is an annual figure. My personal debt is several times my GDP as I have a relatively new mortgage. This is not some sort of crisis as I have the means to service this debt and the assets to back it up.

[SilverSixer]

AstonZagato said:

SpeckledJim said:

Balmoral said:

When Daewoo launched in the UK back in 1995 with their chain of wholly owned factory shops rather than a franchised dealer network, they had a terrific operations manual which focused on them being retailers not dealers.

NO balloons
NO bunting
NO flags
NO ramps
NO tail-gates open
NO sharp suits
NO sharp haircuts
NO sheepskin coats
NO interminable sucking in of air through teeth prior to quoting figures

Very well-intentioned it was too, but customers NEEEEEEED to be allowed a haggle, so it didn't work.

Much as dealers are maligned/hated, they're oddly actually what people want.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 16th March 17:12

I slightly disagree.

Dealers and haggling are what we have become conditioned to expect.

I'd much prefer to walk into a dealer and pay the price on the windscreen knowing that is the lowest possible price to purchase that vehicle. Unfortunately we all know that it isn't, so we all have to argue on price. It makes the whole process of purchasing cars unpleasant, tiresome and unsettling.

Car Giant don't haggle and are pretty successful. I've bought 2 or 3 cars from there and far preferred the experience to the dealer haggle bks. Perhaps they are so low margin that the model wouldn't work for smaller dealers, they need to sell a few at inflated screen prices to incompetent/unwilling hagglers and/or brand loyalists to keep profits up. Dunno. But I like the Car Giant way.

[Balmoral]

The point being that with Daewoo, you weren't buying from a dealer, you were buying direct from the manufacturer (well, Daewoo Cars UK, a subsidiary) so there was no dealer margin to haggle down, it wasn't on top of the manufacturers price of the car in the first place.

[SpeckledJim]

AstonZagato said:

SpeckledJim said:

Balmoral said:

When Daewoo launched in the UK back in 1995 with their chain of wholly owned factory shops rather than a franchised dealer network, they had a terrific operations manual which focused on them being retailers not dealers.

NO balloons
NO bunting
NO flags
NO ramps
NO tail-gates open
NO sharp suits
NO sharp haircuts
NO sheepskin coats
NO interminable sucking in of air through teeth prior to quoting figures

Very well-intentioned it was too, but customers NEEEEEEED to be allowed a haggle, so it didn't work.

Much as dealers are maligned/hated, they're oddly actually what people want.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 16th March 17:12

I slightly disagree.

Dealers and haggling are what we have become conditioned to expect.

I'd much prefer to walk into a dealer and pay the price on the windscreen knowing that is the lowest possible price to purchase that vehicle. Unfortunately we all know that it isn't, so we all have to argue on price. It makes the whole process of purchasing cars unpleasant, tiresome and unsettling.

Cuts both ways though. For every customer who is over the moon to not have a haggle, there's another customer who says "I won't pay full price on anything. I ALWAYS get a deal. It's the principle, innit!?"

Can't win them all.

[SpeckledJim]

Balmoral said:

The point being that with Daewoo, you weren't buying from a dealer, you were buying direct from the manufacturer (well, Daewoo Cars UK, a subsidiary) so there was no dealer margin to haggle down, it wasn't on top of the manufacturers price of the car in the first place.

Fair point, but they still had the costs of operating the sites, and with Daewoo they had salaried guys expected to do 'dealer-type' activities, but without personal skin in the game.

I expect as a result they left a LOT of money on the table.

It also left the manufacturer no wriggle-room with customers. No buffering dealer insulating them from the true horrors of dealing with the car-buying public. I'm sure that's a big part of why manufacturers don't adopt this model.

[Balmoral]

I worked for Daewoo from the start to almost the finish, initially in an outlet sales management role, then latterly as an outlet manager. There are a fair few things that could do with being explained, as there's still much misunderstanding about the business model/concept (as has been shown in the handful of posts here about it). Perhaps I should start a thread?

[SpeckledJim]

Balmoral said:

I worked for Daewoo from the start to almost the finish, initially in an outlet sales management role, then latterly as an outlet manager. There are a fair few things that could do with being explained, as there's still much misunderstanding about the business model/concept (as has been shown in the handful of posts here about it). Perhaps I should start a thread?

Yes please! I'd be very interested to be corrected on whatever I've misunderstood

[talksthetorque]

SpeckledJim said:

Cuts both ways though. For every customer who is over the moon to not have a haggle, there's another customer who says "I won't pay full price on anything. I ALWAYS get a deal. It's the principle, innit!?"

Can't win them all.

This is known as husband and wife isn't it?

[AstonZagato]

SpeckledJim said:

AstonZagato said:

SpeckledJim said:

Balmoral said:

When Daewoo launched in the UK back in 1995 with their chain of wholly owned factory shops rather than a franchised dealer network, they had a terrific operations manual which focused on them being retailers not dealers.

NO balloons
NO bunting
NO flags
NO ramps
NO tail-gates open
NO sharp suits
NO sharp haircuts
NO sheepskin coats
NO interminable sucking in of air through teeth prior to quoting figures

Very well-intentioned it was too, but customers NEEEEEEED to be allowed a haggle, so it didn't work.

Much as dealers are maligned/hated, they're oddly actually what people want.

Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 16th March 17:12

I slightly disagree.

Dealers and haggling are what we have become conditioned to expect.

I'd much prefer to walk into a dealer and pay the price on the windscreen knowing that is the lowest possible price to purchase that vehicle. Unfortunately we all know that it isn't, so we all have to argue on price. It makes the whole process of purchasing cars unpleasant, tiresome and unsettling.

Cuts both ways though. For every customer who is over the moon to not have a haggle, there's another customer who says "I won't pay full price on anything. I ALWAYS get a deal. It's the principle, innit!?"

Can't win them all.

That's not the point I'm making. Haggling has become part of the process. The customers are suspicious that, even though you say that there is no haggling, there must really be haggling involved as that is what everyone else does. They become worried that, if they don't haggle, they are being ripped off.

If no dealer had ever haggled over the price, there would be no haggling (or the tiny minority who try to haggle would get short shrift). The vast majority would be happier. If we all knew that the sticker price was the lowest price possible then we'd mainly have a happier purchasing experience.

[AstonZagato]

SilverSixer said:

Car Giant don't haggle and are pretty successful. I've bought 2 or 3 cars from there and far preferred the experience to the dealer haggle bks. Perhaps they are so low margin that the model wouldn't work for smaller dealers, they need to sell a few at inflated screen prices to incompetent/unwilling hagglers and/or brand loyalists to keep profits up. Dunno. But I like the Car Giant way.

I'd heard that - but I was suspicious that they do, in reality, negotiate. Is it really a flat "no" if you try to argue them down?

[David87]

I drove a Fiat 500 the other day and it didn't have a sidelight setting on the headlamp stalk. Simply 'off' (with front DRLs) and dipped beam. How can this be? Never seen it before.

[wiggy001]

AstonZagato said:

SilverSixer said:

Car Giant don't haggle and are pretty successful. I've bought 2 or 3 cars from there and far preferred the experience to the dealer haggle bks. Perhaps they are so low margin that the model wouldn't work for smaller dealers, they need to sell a few at inflated screen prices to incompetent/unwilling hagglers and/or brand loyalists to keep profits up. Dunno. But I like the Car Giant way.

I'd heard that - but I was suspicious that they do, in reality, negotiate. Is it really a flat "no" if you try to argue them down?

I've just bought a Passat from them, and bought an A4 a few years ago from them too. Great experience - no haggling at all on the car or any extras (warranty, Guard X etc).

My understanding is they buy in large numbers and sell in large numbers with small margins. On the day I purchased recently (a saturday) I was told they'd sold close to 300 cars.